• Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more

dangers of vitamin supplements

jimtron

Illuminator
Joined
Mar 9, 2005
Messages
3,105
Location
Los Angeles, California
Here's a good op-ed NYT piece about how vitamin supplements can cause health problems, and how the industry fought off regulation:

"Don't Take Your Vitamins"

(The anti vitamin regulation) bill passed by a vote of 81 to 10. In 1976, it became law. Decades later, Peter Barton Hutt, chief counsel to the F.D.A., wrote that “it was the most humiliating defeat” in the agency’s history. As a result, consumers don’t know that taking megavitamins could increase their risk of cancer and heart disease and shorten their lives; they don’t know that they have been suffering too much of a good thing for too long.
 
Last edited:
I have at least one disagreement with Peter Barton Hutt*, but on this he was completely correct.


*Yes, he is always referred to with all three names. I'm not sure why but it has been so every time I have met him or heard him speak.
 
I have at least one disagreement with Peter Barton Hutt*, but on this he was completely correct.

*Yes, he is always referred to with all three names. I'm not sure why but it has been so every time I have met him or heard him speak.

On mega-doses I agree with his point, as well as the general issue of regulation, but taking very limited studies on sick people and then extending them to the general population is exactly the kind of poor science many in the nutrition industry are condemned for.
 
On mega-doses I agree with his point, as well as the general issue of regulation, but taking very limited studies on sick people and then extending them to the general population is exactly the kind of poor science many in the nutrition industry are condemned for.

Interesting choice of words. As far as I can tell, so long as they have the appropriate disclaimer and word the claims carefully there is nothing illegal about this activity in the nutritional supplement industry.

"Known to support <body system> health" is a claim that can be made for almost any pill sold as a dietary supplement short of poison. No matter what you replace <body system> with. Just so long as you stay away from weight loss, hair growth, and aging.

It is a piss poor way to regulate consumer products.
 
Some years ago, I read a book called The Vitamin Pushers I got from Paladin press. It was pretty good...
The two physicians who wrote the thing explained that America had "the best-nourished toilets in the world"
That if you had an actual vitamin deficiency, there were recognizable symptoms, and if you didn't have them...You didn't have a deficiency.

Seems to me almost all the published testing that has been reported in various science articles over the years indicate the same thing...Either the product had no effect whatever, or it was actually harmful.
 
Since I don't eat fresh fruit or veg, and the only vitamins declared on any food or drink packaging that I eat/drink is the vitamins in red bull I think I'll continue taking supplements
 
Interesting choice of words. As far as I can tell, so long as they have the appropriate disclaimer and word the claims carefully there is nothing illegal about this activity in the nutritional supplement industry.

I'm talking about the issue of using (very) limited studies to make over-reaching claims about populations, not claims.

Some years ago, I read a book called The Vitamin Pushers I got from Paladin press. It was pretty good...
The two physicians who wrote the thing explained that America had "the best-nourished toilets in the world"

Yes, there's a lot of rubbish out there that ignores even basic biology. Megadoses of C is one of them - even if large doses were useful, it would have to be ingested over a period of time, not in one superpill. It just gets pi**sed out.

That if you had an actual vitamin deficiency, there were recognizable symptoms, and if you didn't have them...You didn't have a deficiency.

That's essentially true for those deficiencies and symptoms, but nutritional science has come along way since then. Severe deficiencies in micronutrients can result in these disease states (like scurvy) but with at least some nutrients there is almost certainly cumulative "damage" through chronic insufficiency - ie enough to avoid a deficiency state, but not the optimal intake.

The fact the optimal intake almost certainly varies from person to person (sometimes dramatically) makes it an absurdly difficult area to say much with certainty.

Seems to me almost all the published testing that has been reported in various science articles over the years indicate the same thing...Either the product had no effect whatever, or it was actually harmful.

No, it's all over the place, one study says one thing, another study says something else. The article for example cites some studies on Vitamin E, here's a recent contrary view.

Or how about this one - which found that Vitamin E supplementation decreased mortality in smokers - but only the elderly. In middle-aged smokers it increased mortality.

I can provide plenty more studies, for and against, virtually any nutrient.

Nutrition is complicated.
 
Since I don't eat fresh fruit or veg, and the only vitamins declared on any food or drink packaging that I eat/drink is the vitamins in red bull I think I'll continue taking supplements

supplements are called supplements, not replacements.

you really should try some of those fresh fruit & veg. Or even frozen ones.
 
Since I don't eat fresh fruit or veg, and the only vitamins declared on any food or drink packaging that I eat/drink is the vitamins in red bull I think I'll continue taking supplements

I think that's one of the main reasons people take them. But I wonder how much evidence supports the idea that getting daily vitamins from pills rather than food is truly effective or healthy.

Also, kind of ironic that many of the knee-jerk anti-pharma folks take vitamins, which aren't "natural," and may well be made by a pharmaceutical company.
 
I think that's one of the main reasons people take them. But I wonder how much evidence supports the idea that getting daily vitamins from pills rather than food is truly effective or healthy.

There's lots of evidence that supplementing with particular vitamins increases blood serum levels of those vitamins. There's less evidence they're as effective at actually being utilised in cells, probably due to the lack of other nutrients that exist in plants but not in synthetic supplements and are important for absorption and utilisation of vitamins, as well as having health effects in their own right.
 
Raising serum levels proves they are absorbed, to be pee'd out.

But where are the studies that taking any vitamins, except to fix a deficiency, does anybody any good?

Like "Studies show that taking Devine Glory Daily Snake Oil + Iron and you'll live a significant amount (18 seconds) LONGER" ?
 
Last edited:
I kind of agree with IceRat on this. Here's my understanding of the current state of evidence:

There's some evidence that taking megadoses of some vitamins is dangerous (and the ones that aren't dangerous are wasteful).

There's only weak (or no) evidence that taking normal doses does good except in the case of deficiency (and I believe during pregnancy).

But there's no evidence that taking normal doses is dangerous (other than financially).

Does that sound about right? My problem with the headline given in the OP (and I'm not picking on the OP--I've seen similar wording all over the mainstream media) is that it implies that there is evidence that taking normal doses is dangerous.
 
Last edited:
I kind of agree with IceRat on this. Here's my understanding of the current state of evidence:

There's some evidence that taking megadoses of some vitamins is dangerous (and the ones that aren't dangerous are wasteful).

There's only weak (or no) evidence that taking normal doses does good except in the case of deficiency (and I believe during pregnancy).

But there's no evidence that taking normal doses is dangerous (other than financially).

Does that sound about right? My problem with the headline given in the OP (and I'm not picking on the OP--I've seen similar wording all over the mainstream media) is that it implies that there is evidence that taking normal doses is dangerous.

By the OP title, I meant that there can potentially be dangers in taking vitamins, not that they are inherently or always dangerous.
 
I kind of agree with IceRat on this. Here's my understanding of the current state of evidence:

There's some evidence that taking megadoses of some vitamins is dangerous (and the ones that aren't dangerous are wasteful).

There's only weak (or no) evidence that taking normal doses does good except in the case of deficiency (and I believe during pregnancy).

But there's no evidence that taking normal doses is dangerous (other than financially).

Does that sound about right? My problem with the headline given in the OP (and I'm not picking on the OP--I've seen similar wording all over the mainstream media) is that it implies that there is evidence that taking normal doses is dangerous.
That sounds about right to me. As a bumbling charlatan, I'm not sure whether this should reassure you or worry you.

I can quote from a comment a registered dietitian left on a now-defunct blog if that helps.

my stock answer to journalists as to whether ANY supplement is necessary is to say that a)only in specific circumstances such as iron for iron deficiency anaemia and folic acid in early pregnancy b) avoidance of high dose supplements, especially single nutrient types and c) if you want to take some ‘health insurance’ than a broad spectrum one-a-day 100% RDA type does no harm, and is the only type of supplement I would recommend if people want to take some “health insurance”.
 
By the OP title, I meant that there can potentially be dangers in taking vitamins, not that they are inherently or always dangerous.

But again there is no evidence that there can potentially be dangers in taking vitamins in normal doses. At worst, it's wasteful.

The headlines on some of these news stories was alarmist, as if taking vitamins at all is potentially dangerous.
 
There is evidence that certain deficiencies are common among the elderly. Vitamin d, vitamin b-12, iron, magnesium, zinc, and some others have been identified in studies. It appears that the elderly may not absorb some of these nutrients adequately, so supplementation as a precaution might not be unreasonable in this case.
 
There is evidence that certain deficiencies are common among the elderly. Vitamin d, vitamin b-12, iron, magnesium, zinc, and some others have been identified in studies. It appears that the elderly may not absorb some of these nutrients adequately, so supplementation as a precaution might not be unreasonable in this case.

And the rest.

(US data)


While there's obviously significant overlap in these groups, here's a simple enough question - did you eat at least 5 servings of different fruits & vegetables today?
 

ISF - Join now!

Every member here is approved by hand. No bots, no spam, just people who care about evidence and honest debate.

Membership is free!

Create your free account

Back
Top Bottom