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Merged No Planes At WTC (Split from: WTC Dust)

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Not 100% of it would have made it into the building. Some of it would
have bounced backwards off the WTC.

You are correct. A simple Google search for photos of that day will turn up plenty of scene photos showing parts that either didn't make it into the building or made it all the way through.
 
Missing the point again. A bullet wouldn't penetrate steel without damaging itself in the process. Any slow motion replay of this would show the bullet being damaged.

Same for a plane. Perhaps a plane could penetrate partially into a steel building, if it were flying pretty fast. But it would destroy itself in the process, and videos of this event would show that this was happening.

And to the extent that circumstances permitted it, this happened. However, smoke, flame and other ejecta prevented the crystal-clear view you want. Assuming that you aren't arguing that the plane was not shredded by the collision with the WTC, why do you think the momentum of the plane should've been instantly reversed 180° from the plane's path? Or for that matter, stopped within a half-second or less.

Please show your equations and work

Fitz
 
Just college physics.
Your physics fail to take into account the speed of impact. Even if you don't know how to compute it, surely you can understand that a low speed impact between two bodies will have a different outcome than a high speed one? What you seem blissfully unaware of is the extreme momentum that speed imparts to objects. At a high enough speed (in a vacuum), a feather will penetrate a steel plate (really!). At high speeds, the speed is a greater factor than the strength of materials in collisions.

That is why the object that crashed into the earth 65 million years ago did so much damage to our planet. If you could lower a 7.5 mile wide object into the ocean very slowly and carefully, you won't even cause a ripple. But at 10 times the speed of a rifle bullet, you have a worldwide catastrophe.
The 7.5-mile-wide asteroid was traveling at a speed about 10 times that of a rifle bullet when it hit, releasing a billion times more energy than the Hiroshima atom bomb. The impact blew dirt and rock around the world, set massive wildfires, knocked down forests worldwide, triggered massive tsunamis and earthquakes of magnitude 11 or larger and even caused parts of the continent to slip into the ocean.
 
WTC Dust: The...colorful and idiosyncratic way you chose to format your responses to my questions made it more difficult than it needed to be to respond to you. Instead of simply clicking "Quote" I had to take your post apart and put it back together in notepad before posting my response.

Do you find it odd that your perpetrators thought it was a good idea to fake airplane crashes when it would have been easier and "safer" (from their POV) to actually crash planes into the buildings?

If you had 3D projection technology, projecting an image of an airplane moving through the sky would be much easier than all that.


And if my grandmother had wheels, she'd be a wagon. The technology you refer to does not exist. You might as well claim the WTC was demolished with lightsabers. When you have to resort to science fiction devices to patch the holes in a pet theory, you need to consider the probability that your theory is wrong.

Plus, in terms of the "safety" of the plot, actually hijacking a bunch of planes is extremely risky and could easily be foiled at a number of points along the way in the plan. So I think you're wrong about both ease and safety of the two different plans. Of course, you DO need the technology to fake an airplane in the daytime sky, but it remains to be seen if that's what actually was done. What I'm saying is that it was done and much easier and safer than actually hijacking airplanes.


It's not very "safe" if a glitch causes your CGI holo-planes to freeze in midair or dissolve in a burst of pixels before they reach their target. But then this is all a moot point because as I already mentioned, such advanced holo-technology DOES NOT EXIST.

If you want to frame a terrorist group for flying jets into buildings, the simplest, best way to do that is to probably, you know, FLY JETS INTO BUILDINGS.

CGI holo-planes??? Really, Truth Movement??? Why do all of your "theories" sound like James Bond fan fiction written by a not terribly bright 13 year old boy?

What is more is that the attacks as I describe them are feasible, unlike the airplane crash conspiracy, which could not have resulted in a years-long stinking dust pile where huge steel buildings once stood.


Imaginary technology is more "feasible" to you than the possibility that you're wrong?

Do you find it odd that their scheme somehow managed to fool virtually all acknowledged experts in the relevant fields (architecture, demolition, aeronautics, etc.) but didn't fool people with little to no expertise in said fields?

My understanding of psychology is that when people are exposed to trauma, they are vulnerable to suggestion. Also, in the years since 9/11, it has not been socially acceptable among scientists or anyone else to question the commonly understood version of events.


If your aim is to commit the crime of the century and yet you have no desire to go down in history as a cross between Guy Fawkes and Lex Luthor, you don't carry out your crime in a way that makes it clear that you are the guilty party.

Nobody likes to be called a traitor/scumbag/etc.


Oh, I wouldn't say "nobody". Some people clearly get off on any sort of attention, even if it's negative attention. I know, it's weird and sad and pathetic, but there you are.

Finally, the US government is not currently offering grant funding towards the investigation of the events of 9/11, and that's how most science gets done these days. Scientists do work that is funded by the government and very little else.


Annnnnd there's that textbook contempt CTists have for the "not we" (or in your case the "not me") that makes them such a bore on long car trips.

You set great store by your own training and expertise. Do you find that the general public tends to know more about biochemistry than those (like you) who have actual training and experience in that field?



It's a shame then that you don't accord the same respect to other experts in other fields, but that takes us back to the whole "contempt" thing, doesn't it?
 
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Same for a plane. Perhaps a plane could penetrate partially into a steel building, if it were flying pretty fast. But it would destroy itself in the process, and videos of this event would show that this was happening.

You seem to forget the Twin Towers had windows...The plane did get destroyed in the process and the heavier, crumpled up parts shot out through the other side (Yes the other side of the building also had windows). The videos of the event has shown it to be the case.
 
Conservation of momentum is different that what you describe. You are using the casual, non-scientific, definitions of "conservation" and "momentum" instead of sticking to the relevant equations.

The equations say that in every collision between two objects:

Force-----><------Force

If a plane exerted a force onto the south face of WTC 2, then the south face of WTC 2 would have exerted that same force on the plane, and we would have seen evidence of this second force in the videos.

The plane would have slowed down, crumpled, twisted, broken apart, and smashed against the aluminum-cladded steel exterior beams of WTC 2, and at least SOME of the plane parts would have bounced backwards.

I'm not saying a whole plane would have bounced off the south face of WTC 2, remaining intact. Some of a plane would have penetrated the building. Just not 100% of it. Some would have bounced back, and videos don't show this. Videos also do not depict crumpling, twisting, or a noticeable decrease in velocity of the plane-like object.

It was

FORCE----><-----force
 
So it all boils down to the fact that Dusty doesn't believe the plane was destroyed by the impact because she can't see it once it enters the building, therefore it didn't, therefore it should have bounced off the building, but she didn't see that, therefore there was no plane? Has it come to this?

I'm sorry WTC Dust. For all your supposed education, this isn't a very impressive stance. In fact it's stupid
 
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Notice how R.A.F. formatted the post you replied to, i.e. with multiple quote boxes? That's how it's done right. You're doing it wrong.

The way you've been doing it makes your replies virtually unreadable from a formatting standpoint alone, but lime font(!) was the last straw. As Jams used to say, please do better.

Seems like DEW-supporting no-planers love to blind us with colorful text.
 
Is there anybody on Earth who could tell you that you are mistaken who would make you think twice, or do you pretty much think you know more than just about every physicist on the planet?

They'd have to have a better account of the observed phenomena than I do, but, yes, this could happen. If all they do is tell me that I'm wrong, that won't be good enough.
 
You are correct. A simple Google search for photos of that day will turn up plenty of scene photos showing parts that either didn't make it into the building or made it all the way through.

I've seen those images, and they aren't images of the south face of WTC 2 at the supposed moment of impact at 9:59AM.

That's the time and place I expect plane parts, because that's the time and place a plane was said to have crashed.
 
So by your logic, you should be able to go stand out in the middle of a road and have oncoming cars bounce off you. Please alert the media if you're going to be attempting to prove this theory.

Fitz

This is not what I think would happen if a person were hit by a car.
 
And to the extent that circumstances permitted it, this happened. However, smoke, flame and other ejecta prevented the crystal-clear view you want. Assuming that you aren't arguing that the plane was not shredded by the collision with the WTC, why do you think the momentum of the plane should've been instantly reversed 180° from the plane's path? Or for that matter, stopped within a half-second or less.

Please show your equations and work

Fitz

Because in every collision between two objects, momentum is conserved.
 
Your physics fail to take into account the speed of impact. Even if you don't know how to compute it, surely you can understand that a low speed impact between two bodies will have a different outcome than a high speed one? What you seem blissfully unaware of is the extreme momentum that speed imparts to objects. At a high enough speed (in a vacuum), a feather will penetrate a steel plate (really!). At high speeds, the speed is a greater factor than the strength of materials in collisions.

That is why the object that crashed into the earth 65 million years ago did so much damage to our planet. If you could lower a 7.5 mile wide object into the ocean very slowly and carefully, you won't even cause a ripple. But at 10 times the speed of a rifle bullet, you have a worldwide catastrophe.


Actually, it does. If two planes are traveling, one fast and one really fast, and they both crash into a steel wall, then the one traveling really fast would be destroyed even more completely at the moment of impact. Even MORE plane debris would be expected in the second case.
 
It's a shame then that you don't accord the same respect to other experts in other fields, but that takes us back to the whole "contempt" thing, doesn't it?[/QUOTE]

Which PhD level research scientists are working full time on 9/11 that you call experts? If they aren't experts in 9/11, then they aren't experts. If they are experts in other fields, but they haven't spent any time on 9/11, then they have some catching up to do. It's not enough to have a degree or technical knowledge. You have to actually be doing the work to be classified as an expert in the field.

The technology you refer to does not exist.

How are you so sure? You, yourself know every single bit of technology that exists? I find this difficult to believe.



such advanced holo-technology DOES NOT EXIST.

You seem very convinced about this. Can you explain why you think this way?


Imaginary technology is more "feasible" to you than the possibility that you're wrong?

You are coming from a strong standpoint that it couldn't happen, and
I really wonder why.


If your aim is to commit the crime of the century and yet you have no desire to go down in history as a cross between Guy Fawkes and Lex Luthor, you don't carry out your crime in a way that makes it clear that you are the guilty party.

No problem with this statement.
 
You seem to forget the Twin Towers had windows...The plane did get destroyed in the process and the heavier, crumpled up parts shot out through the other side (Yes the other side of the building also had windows). The videos of the event has shown it to be the case.

The windows weren't the strongest portion of the south wall of WTC 2. The steel exterior columns were. Any plane bits that might have hit the steel exterior columns would have a significant likelihood of bouncing backwards.
 
So it all boils down to the fact that Dusty doesn't believe the plane was destroyed by the impact because she can't see it once it enters the building, therefore it didn't, therefore it should have bounced off the building, but she didn't see that, therefore there was no plane? Has it come to this?

I'm sorry WTC Dust. For all your supposed education, this isn't a very impressive stance. In fact it's stupid

That isn't the reason I think this way. The reason I know that a plane didn't impact the south face of WTC 2 is because there are at least a half dozen videos of this event, and NONE of them show any noticeable plane debris bouncing backwards in the opposite direction of the "flight path".
 
Because in every collision between two objects, momentum is conserved.

Indeed. And in this system the building started with none, so momentum lost by the plane was conserved when building parts moved in the direction the plane was moving, broadly speaking.

Broken parts of the building and plane could have reacted chaotically (or 'bounced around a bit' if you prefer to put it this way) and fallen to the S side but, as it happens, we see little or none of this. And the fact that we don't see it is unremarkable given the speed and mass of the plane.
 
... there are at least a half dozen videos of this event, and NONE of them show any noticeable plane debris bouncing backwards in the opposite direction of the "flight path".

What amount exactly would count as "noticeable"? How much should there be? Please show your working.
 
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