Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[Mumbles]

Zimmerman doesn't describe moving. That's his problem. He gave three complete statements, all of them consistent, wherein he did not move at all and was immediately set upon and held down by the T. In a fourth interview, once at the scene, he changed his story. So either he was lying then or he's lying now. Anyone who thinks that won't be a problem if he's foolish enough to take the stand is kidding themselves.

The entire idea of him somehow squirming for tens of feet is one problem with his story. I think anyone who has been in a fight will agree that it's absurd.

But there are a couple of other problems. First, as you've probably pointed out before, Zimmerman's first account would have his head on top of grass. And so, we end up with Zimmerman miraculously squirming, while someone else is sitting on him, in order to put his head on top of concrete.

And of course, the second one, is that he's apparently squirming in the direction of the home where Martin is staying rather than in the direction of his own, clearly visible truck, which is located in an area that's far more visible than some glorified alleyway. Um...why would he do this? Yes, fights can be disorienting, but I've never even heard of one where someone wiggles to the point where they travel tens of feet, in the wrong direction, with someone else pinning them down.

 

[Rare Truth]

One little bit of information in the doc dump was noticed recently.

This concerns TM's familiarity with the complex and the walk home.

Brandy Greene said to FDLE she was not aware of TM ever going got the 7-11 before.

Also that in the last year and a half, Greene said TM had only visited at her apartment 7-8 times, and always with the dad.

That weekend was the first time TM had even been there without his dad there (how many knew Tracy spent the evening prior (Sat) at a hotel, and that Saturday, TM spent most of the day at the hotel with his dad and others?)

The point goes to TM's knowledge of the routes and the strangeness of the location in finding his way back home, alone.

It has been many times speculated how he should have known the routes (or that other routes were quicker to get back to the temporary residence)
-- I just wanted to point out how unfamiliar with his surroundings TM may have actually been.

Something not much noted. I know I had missed this earlier, and I think it is something to keep in mind when talking of TM's walk back home.

 

[Rare Truth]

Just so it's on record here. Page 32 of the 284 doc dump.

 

[Cylinder]

First, as you've probably pointed out before, Zimmerman's first account would have his head on top of grass. And so, we end up with Zimmerman miraculously squirming, while someone else is sitting on him, in order to put his head on top of concrete.

Can you provide a quote from that account? Which interview are you referencing?

 

[Dan O.]

-- I just wanted to point out how unfamiliar with his surroundings TM may have actually been.

Something not much noted. I know I had missed this earlier, and I think it is something to keep in mind when talking of TM's walk back home.

Except, didn't his cousin drive him to that same store the previous evening? And he had played with the neighborhood kids on their previous visits. Surly one of those visits would involve wandering through the neighborhood, at least to visit the lakes.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The entire idea of him somehow squirming for tens of feet is one problem with his story. I think anyone who has been in a fight will agree that it's absurd.

But there are a couple of other problems. First, as you've probably pointed out before, Zimmerman's first account would have his head on top of grass. And so, we end up with Zimmerman miraculously squirming, while someone else is sitting on him, in order to put his head on top of concrete.

And of course, the second one, is that he's apparently squirming in the direction of the home where Martin is staying rather than in the direction of his own, clearly visible truck, which is located in an area that's far more visible than some glorified alleyway. Um...why would he do this? Yes, fights can be disorienting, but I've never even heard of one where someone wiggles to the point where they travel tens of feet, in the wrong direction, with someone else pinning them down.

If only a witness saw that happen, and even drew a diagram, it would be more believable, wouldn't it ?

 

[TheL8Elvis]

We're talking about a distance of at least 20 feet.

Please quote where Zimmerman accounts for sliding around for 20 feet or more.

Then explain how that doesn't sound completely ridiculous and then explain how he managed to do so on wet grass and managed to keep his clothes clean.

How many feet does one have to slide before there are grass stains ? 3 ? 10 ? 15 ?

Based on witness 6 description, it's clear GZ slid some number of feet. And since he doesn't have grass stains, it's clear that number of feet is less than the number required to get stains ... so I just want to know what that magic number is ?

 

[Dan O.]

The entire idea of him somehow squirming for tens of feet is one problem with his story. I think anyone who has been in a fight will agree that it's absurd.

But there are a couple of other problems. First, as you've probably pointed out before, Zimmerman's first account would have his head on top of grass. And so, we end up with Zimmerman miraculously squirming, while someone else is sitting on him, in order to put his head on top of concrete.

And of course, the second one, is that he's apparently squirming in the direction of the home where Martin is staying rather than in the direction of his own, clearly visible truck, which is located in an area that's far more visible than some glorified alleyway. Um...why would he do this? Yes, fights can be disorienting, but I've never even heard of one where someone wiggles to the point where they travel tens of feet, in the wrong direction, with someone else pinning them down.

It's really not a problem. George Zimmerman is walking west on the sidewalk past the tee heading back to his truck when Trayvon Martin leaps out of the bushes that are 15 to 20 feet away behind him and punches him in the face. He falls straight to the ground on his back on the grass while tossing the keychain flashlight 6 to 10 feet in the other direction. Because George is understandably confused, he does the slithering thing onto the sidewalk and for 30 to 40 feet down the sidewalk to the south while trayvon is punching his face with bricks and smashing his head into the concrete. George then slides backwards off the sidewalk onto the slippery grass and this let's trayvon see his gun that is tucked into his waistband behind him. When the neighbor steps out briefly to tell them to cut it out, George retrieves his gun and shoots Trayvon. George then walks back towards the tee where he surrenders to flashlight man at the same spot where George's keys landed but neither of them had noticed even though the flashlight attached to the keys was illuminated on. And somehow both George's other flashlight and Trayvon's cell phone ended up even further south than where the fight ended.

 

[Dan O.]

If only a witness saw that happen, and even drew a diagram, it would be more believable, wouldn't it ?

Did you believe the diagram the first time I pointed it out showing George had walked back to the tee before flashlight man and the first officer met him?

 

[Dancing David]

Hrm. The more this is discussed, the more interesting it gets. Probably why I still lurk after 206 pages.

Unfortunately, it has been pretty much the same stuff , over and over. Everything over and over.

Me too

 

[Dancing David]

Do you think it is just an oversight that the law talks about the standard of a reasonable person where they intended to say a confused scared and panicked person?

Yes a reasonable person who is panicked and confused. That would fall under reasonable fear.

 

[Dan O.]

Yes a reasonable person who is panicked and confused. That would fall under reasonable fear.

I am having difficulty reconciling that reasoned thoughts and confused thoughts could be the same thing. How do you determine what reason is if you allow it to be confused?

 

[WildCat]

What kind of hearing was scheduled.

It's just so hard to keep track of these things, isn't it?

Yes, can you link to the scheduled "stand your ground" hearing in this case?

It's like 2 different people are posting under your account, one who constantly harps about no "stand your ground" hearing taking place and one who apparently thinks this is a "stand your ground" case.

Did you notice the part you quoted started with an "if"?

 

[WildCat]

He didn't describe an argument. Thats pretty clear.

However, multiple witnesses did.

So yes, that makes him a liar.



There's that word "claim" you keep trotting out. It's correct usage seems rather problematic for you.

Sort of like knowing what kind of immunity hearing was scheduled.

I guess remembering all these things is just so... confusing.

So describe the argument the witnesses heard. What words were being said, and how do they differ from Zimmerman's version?

 

[WildCat]

What do you think Z meant when Z said "he's running"?

Did Z mean "he's running at me"??

I would find that hard to believe with all that we know.

He certainly didn't run away, or they never would have met up. Kind of hard to catch up to someone who's running away when you give them a big head start and never actually run yourself, isn't it?

 

[WildCat]

The entire idea of him somehow squirming for tens of feet is one problem with his story. I think anyone who has been in a fight will agree that it's absurd.

But there are a couple of other problems. First, as you've probably pointed out before, Zimmerman's first account would have his head on top of grass. And so, we end up with Zimmerman miraculously squirming, while someone else is sitting on him, in order to put his head on top of concrete.

And of course, the second one, is that he's apparently squirming in the direction of the home where Martin is staying rather than in the direction of his own, clearly visible truck, which is located in an area that's far more visible than some glorified alleyway. Um...why would he do this? Yes, fights can be disorienting, but I've never even heard of one where someone wiggles to the point where they travel tens of feet, in the wrong direction, with someone else pinning them down.

Argument from incredulity, I wonder what other section of this forum has lots of those?

 

[WildCat]

One little bit of information in the doc dump was noticed recently.

This concerns TM's familiarity with the complex and the walk home.

Brandy Greene said to FDLE she was not aware of TM ever going got the 7-11 before.

Also that in the last year and a half, Greene said TM had only visited at her apartment 7-8 times, and always with the dad.

That weekend was the first time TM had even been there without his dad there (how many knew Tracy spent the evening prior (Sat) at a hotel, and that Saturday, TM spent most of the day at the hotel with his dad and others?)

The point goes to TM's knowledge of the routes and the strangeness of the location in finding his way back home, alone.

It has been many times speculated how he should have known the routes (or that other routes were quicker to get back to the temporary residence)
-- I just wanted to point out how unfamiliar with his surroundings TM may have actually been.

Something not much noted. I know I had missed this earlier, and I think it is something to keep in mind when talking of TM's walk back home.

He certainly knew which direction was away from Zimmerman, and he certainly didn't go that way.

 

[WildCat]

I am having difficulty reconciling that reasoned thoughts and confused thoughts could be the same thing. How do you determine what reason is if you allow it to be confused?

So now you're claiming reasonable people can never get panicked and confused?

You learn the darndest things on the internet!

 

[johnny karate]

How many feet does one have to slide before there are grass stains ? 3 ? 10 ? 15 ?

Based on witness 6 description, it's clear GZ slid some number of feet. And since he doesn't have grass stains, it's clear that number of feet is less than the number required to get stains ... so I just want to know what that magic number is ?

Witness 6 described Zimmerman sliding around on his back for several feet?

Quote, please.

 

[Amazer]

He certainly knew which direction was away from Zimmerman, and he certainly didn't go that way.

So it's your claim that Trayvon ran towards George?

Why then does George leave his vehicle?