Continuation: Discussion of the George Zimmerman case

[johnny karate]

Amazing, now you're claiming there may have been no confrontation at all?

You should look up the word "claim". Maybe if you understood what it meant, you'd stop using it incorrectly.

It's clear at this point you dont understand that there are implications to the things you blather about.

I would imagine that people with a history of being wrong and confused perceive much of the world as "blather".

And I see you still think your proof of guilt is Zimmerman not knowing exactly where he was standing when he was punched.

I do?

Where did I say that?

 

[johnny karate]

It's rather breathtaking how for almost a year, all of the talk from George's supporters was how weak the case was and how Angela Corey was unethical for even bringing charges in the first place. And how at the first chance he got, O'Mara was going to file for immunity and how there was zero evidence, ZERO, that things didn't play out exactly how George said they did. How all of the witnesses, the physical evidence, and George's story lined up like dovetails in a nice piece of woodwork.

And suddenly once it's obvious they aren't having an immunity hearing, we're hearing how RISKY they are and how only a foolish defendant would ever undertake one.

Breathtaking.

Yep.

On one hand, it's claims that the evidence supports Zimmerman and inconsistencies in his story are immaterial.

On the other, it's vague rationalizations and outright dodges regarding the fact that Zimmerman won't simply be taking the stand at an immunity hearing to tell his evidence-supported, consistent story.

 

[WildCat]

You should look up the word "claim". Maybe if you understood what it meant, you'd stop using it incorrectly.

Is this like when you said "Smudge /= smeared blood" you really weren't sayiong the red smudge wasn't blood?

I would imagine that people with a history of being wrong and confused perceive much of the world as "blather".

The only thing I was wrong about was the name of the accident victim who said he was fine and caught a ride home, only to die later of a fractured skull.

I do?

Where did I say that?

In the post you made immediately before this one, for just the latest example.

Or was someone else posting in your name?

 

[Cylinder]

And as I've said, if the fight did start at the T, then Zimmerman was untruthful about being knocked immediately to the ground.

Repeating it does not make it true. There's nothing about Zimmerman's claim of being knocked down that precludes the altercation moving in the manner Zimemrman, W6 and W11 all describe.

 

[Unabogie]

Zimmerman doesn't describe moving. That's his problem. He gave three complete statements, all of them consistent, wherein he did not move at all and was immediately set upon and held down by the T. In a fourth interview, once at the scene, he changed his story. So either he was lying then or he's lying now. Anyone who thinks that won't be a problem if he's foolish enough to take the stand is kidding themselves.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

The prosecution could have made these same allegations months ago and didn't. So to me, it's clearly de la Rionda calling O'Mara out for his histrionics and hypocrisy.

Yes, they could have done it a while ago. They didn't do it until he finally called BDLR out for delaying discovery. We can agree that neither of us know exactly why he did it.

Either way, the evidence still plainly demonstrates Zimmerman hid money from his lawyer. He admitted it. I'm not even sure why you would dispute that.

I don't recall saying anything one way or another about it. However, not telling your attorney is not necessarily the same as hiding it. If MOM told him he was indigent and he didn't need to know any more about that money .... *shrugs*

We'll see things play out, if BDLR does anything more than throw a hissy fit.

 

[Cylinder]

Zimmerman doesn't describe moving. That's his problem. He gave three complete statements, all of them consistent, wherein he did not move at all and was immediately set upon and held down by the T. In a fourth interview, once at the scene, he changed his story. So either he was lying then or he's lying now. Anyone who thinks that won't be a problem if he's foolish enough to take the stand is kidding themselves.

Repeating a false claim does't make it true. From the outset, Zimmerman describes trying to slide out from underneath Martin. In the walkthrough, he gives move spatial detail. In that walkthrough, he misses the ending point by a few feet while expressing uncertainty about where that exact point is.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Sure it does, because I didn't assign any geography to my scenario.

I don't deny the altercation could have began at or near the T. I don't believe it did, but it certainly might have. However, I find the location of the keychain quite a bit less significant than the location of the dead body.

Either way, Zimmerman's story doesn't line up with the facts.

Either he was untruthful about where the altercation began to hide the fact that he was following Martin, or he was untruthful about immediately being knocked to the ground* to hide the fact that the altercation wasn't quite as one-sided as he claims. Personally, I think it's a little of both.

*And no, I don't buy any of this "stumble/run" nonsense, so don't bother.

Like I said before, just disbelieving GZ story isn't going to cut it. There needs to be an alternate theory.

If there is no evidence that it did not go down more or less like GZ says, then the state has nothing.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That's really funny, considering that George is spending something like $7,000 a month on "security" when nothing tragic has happened to him yet, has it? So perhaps you don't need to wait for something terrible to happen before you take threats seriously?

You mean like having someone on top of you, beating you - you wouldn't want to wait until they did real damage?

I'm glad to see you really do understand.

I think there's been some overlap between O'Mara and his "minions".

If you don't back this statement up with any evidence, then clearly all you have left is spouting conspiracy theories.

Hilighted the part we can't lay claim to.

No, I'll agree they aren't especially legally educated guesses.

You also didn't disavow it. How about stating it cleanly? Do you concede that Witness 8 is the only Witness 8 and was the girl on the phone with the victim at the time he met up with George and that there's no conspiracy to create a hoax witness?

NAH, I like being mysterious.

 

[WildCat]

Zimmerman doesn't describe moving. That's his problem. He gave three complete statements, all of them consistent, wherein he did not move at all and was immediately set upon and held down by the T. In a fourth interview, once at the scene, he changed his story. So either he was lying then or he's lying now. Anyone who thinks that won't be a problem if he's foolish enough to take the stand is kidding themselves.

And here we go again, with yet another poster, with the presumption that because Zimmerman doesn't know exactly where he is while engaged in a fight means he's making the whole thing up and therefore guilty of murder.

Apparently our internet super-sleuths have cracked the case! Because as everyone knows people engaged in a fight keep detailed notes of exactly where they are at all times and can regurgitate it later with near perfect accuracy.

I'm sure johnny and Unabogie will deny they ever implied this, maybe they're "just asking questions".

 

[KatieG]

Trayvon's First Easter!


Published on Mar 31, 2013

All of us coloring Easter eggs with him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZMmv0Dc9aUw (3:19)​

Wrong Trayvon, more likely, lol...

Not really funny. In poor taste, IMO.

 

[johnny karate]

Is this like when you said "Smudge /= smeared blood" you really weren't sayiong the red smudge wasn't blood?

It's cute how you keep walking this argument back from the original outrageous fabrication it started out to be and expect no one to notice.

Keep walking back and maybe you'll eventually find the truth.

The only thing I was wrong about was the name of the accident victim who said he was fine and caught a ride home, only to die later of a fractured skull.

Yes, I recall your confusion on that point. I also recall your confusion regarding the release of the medical records. And of course the constant confusion you experience between what someone actually claims and what you imagine they claim. (Just see below for the most recent example.)

In the post you made immediately before this one, for just the latest example.

Or was someone else posting in your name?

Then surely it will be very easy for you to provide a quote of me claiming the proof of Zimmerman's guilt lies in the fact that he can't remember where he was standing when he was punched.

I anxiously await the results.

 

[johnny karate]

Repeating it does not make it true. There's nothing about Zimmerman's claim of being knocked down that precludes the altercation moving in the manner Zimemrman, W6 and W11 all describe.

Yes, it does.

Read his written statement.

 

[johnny karate]

Repeating a false claim does't make it true. From the outset, Zimmerman describes trying to slide out from underneath Martin. In the walkthrough, he gives move spatial detail. In that walkthrough, he misses the ending point by a few feet while expressing uncertainty about where that exact point is.

We're talking about a distance of at least 20 feet.

Please quote where Zimmerman accounts for sliding around for 20 feet or more.

Then explain how that doesn't sound completely ridiculous and then explain how he managed to do so on wet grass and managed to keep his clothes clean.

 

[johnny karate]

If there is no evidence that it did not go down more or less like GZ says, then the state has nothing.

Well, you think we've seen all the evidence and that none of it disproves Zimmerman's story, correct?

So is it your belief that the state has nothing?

 

[WildCat]

Then surely it will be very easy for you to provide a quote of me claiming the proof of Zimmerman's guilt lies in the fact that he can't remember where he was standing when he was punched.

I anxiously await the results.

Some really incredible stuff here, 4 minutes later we get:

We're talking about a distance of at least 20 feet.

Please quote where Zimmerman accounts for sliding around for 20 feet or more.

Then explain how that doesn't sound completely ridiculous and then explain how he managed to do so on wet grass and managed to keep his clothes clean.

But this doesn't mean johnny thinks he's guilty, no no no!

He's "just asking questions".

 

[johnny karate]

And here we go again, with yet another poster, with the presumption that because Zimmerman doesn't know exactly where he is while engaged in a fight means he's making the whole thing up and therefore guilty of murder.

Apparently our internet super-sleuths have cracked the case! Because as everyone knows people engaged in a fight keep detailed notes of exactly where they are at all times and can regurgitate it later with near perfect accuracy.

I'm sure johnny and Unabogie will deny they ever implied this, maybe they're "just asking questions".

When is that immunity hearing so Zimmerman can simply take the stand and get himself acquitted?

Clearly no one here is making any arguments at all that could be used against Zimmerman. We're just a bunch of silly truthers. Clearly there is no evidence that disproves his story. We're just making things up.

So tell me, WildCat: When is Zimmerman going to take the stand, tell his perfectly plausible and factually-supported story and get himself acquitted?

 

[phonebook]

So people want to point to the picture taken by, I think, officer Wagner? The one where George has the bloody nose and a smear by his mouth.

Here's what he said:



Ok, but is that true? Not if you look at the picture.

http://pjmedia.com/tatler/files/2012/12/zimmerman-color.jpg

That's before he was treated by the EMT, right? Before his blood was cleaned up?

Maybe, maybe not. I believe TM was pronounced dead by the responding EMTs at 7:30 P.M., and the time stamp on the iPhone photo taken of the back of GZ's head was 7:19 and some seconds, and this was before the police arrived, I believe. After the EMTs worked on TM and pronounced him dead, they realized it was a crime scene, and made efforts to quickly remove themselves from that area and tend to GZ's injuries. So, there was likely less than 10 minutes for all that to happen. The photo taken of GZ in the back of the squad car was taken to see if Witness 11 could identify him. Did they start interviewing Witness 11, have her refuse to come outside to identify GZ in-person, take the camera to him to take the picture, all in less than 10 minutes? Maybe, maybe not. Perhaps the EMT's were in the middle of cleaning him up at that time. I'm not aware of any further information that clarifies this.

 

[johnny karate]

Some really incredible stuff here, 4 minutes later we get:

But this doesn't mean johnny thinks he's guilty, no no no!

He's "just asking questions".

Of course I think he's guilty. Was that not clear?

I just don't recall saying he's guilty because he can't remember where he was standing when he was punched.

Can you please quote me saying that?

 

[WildCat]

Of course I think he's guilty. Was that not clear?

I just don't recall saying he's guilty because he can't remember where he was standing when he was punched.

Can you please quote me saying that?

And yet you've been fixated on that (Zimmerman not knowing exactly where he was every second of the struggle) for months now.

You're "just asking questions", right?

eta: and I've given you ample opportunity to hilite an actual material problem with Zimmerman's story, and yet all you talk about is his location during the struggle.