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Elbe Trackway

From the sounds of it the hoaxers were just stupid. The trackway did not have any length to the stride and it was pretty obvious a rigid or semi-rigid foot was involved. Beyond that their stupidity with sending the e-mail from their own computer to an organization that already has their IP address!???? Hello?

Then to top it off they start crowing about the hoax in the BFF thread, dropping hints. THAT's what really tipped off the investigators and turned the investigation on them. Go back and read the thread prior to Derek or Cliff noting it might be a hoax and read the posts of Tontar and others. Pretty obvious.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” - Albert Einstein
 
SuperFly said:
From the sounds of it the hoaxers were just stupid. The trackway did not have any length to the stride and it was pretty obvious a rigid or semi-rigid foot was involved. Beyond that their stupidity with sending the e-mail from their own computer to an organization that already has their IP address!???? Hello?

Then to top it off they start crowing about the hoax in the BFF thread, dropping hints. THAT's what really tipped off the investigators and turned the investigation on them. Go back and read the thread prior to Derek or Cliff noting it might be a hoax and read the posts of Tontar and others. Pretty obvious.

"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe.” - Albert Einstein
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The hoaxers were stupid???

I don't think so, but who cares if they were?

Obvious signs might have been left on purpose, as a test, or to expose people. Or, the hoaxers may not have cared. Or, they may have just been bad at hoaxing a bigfoot trackway.

In any event, the failure here is clear, and it's not the hoaxers who are looking bad.

Have we heard for sure who the hoaxers are?
 
If the hoaxer hadn't been id'd, the track line would have gone down in history as another BCM or CRIPPLEFOOT, it would have become another icon of bigfootry. Maybe the hoaxer just cared enough to reveal his hand and throw the footers a bone, so they wouldn't have to add another hoax to their list of BONERFIDE EVIDENCE.
 
SuperFly said:
From the sounds of it the hoaxers were just stupid.
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I think you misspelled "hoaxees". Without knowing the hoaxers' motives or whether they even really cared whether anyone would take their hoax seriously for more than a moment, it's impossible to say they were stupid. On the other hand, there's been ample evidence presented here that the hoaxees were all too easily taken in by a not-very-convincing fraud. And, of course, have firmly refused to learn anything from their embarrassing lesson.
 
Bigfooters don't apply the lesson of the Elbe Trackway (Bigfooters can be fooled by planted trackways) to previous Bigfoot tracks. They will argue like this: O.K., the Elbe Trackway is fake; now, you skeptics have to prove that all of the other tracks found in the last 50 years are hoaxes too. I've seen comments by Moneymaker and Muldur to this effect regarding eyewitness reports.

This is an impossible task to lay at the feet of the skeptic. And it shows a lack of reasonable understanding: If the Elbe Trackway fooled some Bigfooters, we may apply this fact generally to other cases. (This does not prove all tracks are hoaxes; it shows that all such tracks may be hoaxes that do indeed trick Bigfoot advocates.)
 
Superfly, I think that you're being a bit careless with your accusations, as well as with your assumptions and conclusions. I suspect that you are somehow far too emotionally involved with the situation to be posting as rationally as I am sure you are capable of. I would also be willing to bet that you know far less about what you're talking about than you lead on. Nobody has been positively identified as having hoaxed the tracks, and to refer to people specifically by name is a pretty bold thing to do.

I notice too that you joined the JREF forum September 20th, likely as a result of the Elbe trackway activity. What is your handle on the BFF, if you don't mind saying?
 
SuperFly said:
Tontar's IP address has been confirmed as the origin of the e-mail to the BFRO in the BFF Tar Pit. Now a staunch critic of hoaxing has become one... ironic.
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I think that Mulder used that exact same phrase. You wouldn't happen to be Mulder from the BFF, would you?

And by the way, I have not been a staunch critic of hoaxing. I have no idea where you may have gotten that idea. I have been a critic of poorly done hoaxes, ones that are so totally obvious that they fail at first glance. Like the Temagami and Ben Matine jobs, those are good examples of poorly done hoaxes. You can see the subject is a suit and commercially available mask immediately. But I have not been a critic of good hoaxes. More and more I am coming to the conclusion that the PGF was a well produced hoax, and for that I give Patterson and crew a huge congratulations.

So if you're going to accuse me of being a staunch critic of hoaxing, you need to be a bit more specific for that sort of statement to be at all accurate. And if you are going to accuse me of having hoaxed, you need to have your facts and evidence firmly in hand, which I can guarantee that you don't. You do not know if I produced the Elbe trackway, or who may have, or even if it was a hoax and not a real one. ;-) You're simply going with whatever everyone else says, playing it safe. But if you are going to play it safe, you need to be a lot more careful with the accusations you make on a public forum.
 
What if this is A REAL BIGFOOT TRACKWAY, and their paranoia has led them to discard these?
 
@Tontar By now it's pretty obvious to many on the BFF that you were involved in the hoax. And I believe the BFRO has the proof.
 
Tontar, I am not giving you credit for the hoax. However if it was you, I want to see pics of the researchers and any candid video you might have taken.
 
Too bad they will learn nothing; they are barely aware of the cognitive dissonance. They are still worshipping the ridiculous fakes made by the Wallace alderfeet.


ps Buster f. Posey
 
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That's what's great about 'Footery, one doesn't need proof to make claims. So that's why I have asked several times...

Tontar - were you involved in the Elbe Trackway hoax?

And if one doesn't deny the claims, well I suppose some folks use very basic deductions skills to arrive at the most logical answer.

*shakes head*

Tube - thanks for the info on trackway/fake footprints. That was good stuff there.

I don't disagree that there are some researchers that have some egg on their face, but there are also some internet skeptics that haven't come out of this clean either.
 
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