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Elbe Trackway

I can tell you parn, that they are being discussed, just not publicly. And yes, I think it has been acknowledged decades ago that hoaxers can hoax tracks. Just as it was acknowledged during the Elbe fiasco.

Speaking of which......

Tontar - the elbe trackway - did you have your hand in any part of the hoaxing?
 
Hmmm. it's funny how Cbengalensis came in here right around the time of the hoax, and now is gone.
 
I made the tracks at elbe. My middle leg has a mind of its own. I was experimenting with a mud facial....
 
I can tell you parn, that they are being discussed, just not publicly. And yes, I think it has been acknowledged decades ago that hoaxers can hoax tracks.

...
Cotter
Can you give an example of a trackway that was shown to be a hoax?
Do you think the Blue Creek Mountain trackway at Bluff Creek in 1967 was a hoax?
What's your thinking on whether every hoax trackway was exposed as a hoax?
 
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I'm less interested in trackways that were shown to be hoaxes, and more interested in trackways that were shown to be authentic.
 
Tontar how did your name get mixed up in this? Is it due to Clff mentioning that the hoaxer was at BFF and building a statue? Does he have any evidence that that person created the trackway?
 
I have always maintained that footprint evidence is not reliable evidence because it would be too easy to hoax, just as has been done throughout history. I've said how I would do it if I were to replicate prints made in the distant past, as well as how I might do it if I were to want to produce more realism than has been seen in some of the historical prints. Sort of along the same lines as the PGF, where Patty's appearance in the film is not evidence of a real creature, but of a something hairy walking along a sand bar, and that regardless of whether Patty was real or not, it should not be that hard to produce a similar looking subject, a suit on a human, with similar proportions, similar movement, similar everything. That I say flat out that I could make convincing prints, or that I could make a Patty suit, has put me under the microscope. I say that prints could be faked easily, I live in the area, and so on.

Also, in jest, following the prodding of another BFF member, I posted something that said I made the London tracks, wasn't exactly happy with how they turned out, so I came up with a better process for making feet, and then made the Elbe tracks, and once finished with those went back to making my Patty replication suit. It was a bit of an elaborate post, spinning a broad yarn, and I mentioned at the end that it was fiction. Apparently Moneymaker was pointed at it, which led to his posting what he posted on Twitter. It's truly been an inconvenient soap opera for me, which is why I tend to avoid commenting on it.
 
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Figured it was all show. They were more worried about getting punked so they put on a show about how they figured it all out.
 
Since the entire BF thing is a hoax, those that are heavy into it have plenty of experience playing the game. Sad thing is, they don't seem to mind who gets thrown under the bus to make it look like progress is being made.
 
I have always maintained that footprint evidence is not reliable evidence because it would be too easy to hoax, just as has been done throughout history. I've said how I would do it if I were to replicate prints made in the distant past, as well as how I might do it if I were to want to produce more realism than has been seen in some of the historical prints. Sort of along the same lines as the PGF, where Patty's appearance in the film is not evidence of a real creature, but of a something hairy walking along a sand bar, and that regardless of whether Patty was real or not, it should not be that hard to produce a similar looking subject, a suit on a human, with similar proportions, similar movement, similar everything. That I say flat out that I could make convincing prints, or that I could make a Patty suit, has put me under the microscope. I say that prints could be faked easily, I live in the area, and so on.

Also, in jest, following the prodding of another BFF member, I posted something that said I made the London tracks, wasn't exactly happy with how they turned out, so I came up with a better process for making feet, and then made the Elbe tracks, and once finished with those went back to making my Patty replication suit. It was a bit of an elaborate post, spinning a broad yarn, and I mentioned at the end that it was fiction. Apparently Moneymaker was pointed at it, which led to his posting what he posted on Twitter. It's truly been an inconvenient soap opera for me, which is why I tend to avoid commenting on it.

So you are saying you absolutely were not involved? Why would it be a inconvenient soap opera for you if you had no involvement?

Why not just say you weren't involved in any way and be done with it?
 
Why not just say you weren't involved in any way and be done with it?

Why should he? And what business is it of yours?

What possible benefit could come from admitting or denying it? Whoever did it, it was funny as heck. What else matters? Some silly, gullible people who are prone to believing in hoaxes got taken in? So what? It's not like anyone was trying to sell them something. For a fraud, this was the wholesome and amusing type, unlike most frauds revolving around BF, like the PGF, or the hucksters who sell casts.

Anyway, I admitted that it was me before anyone else in this thread did, even though that post was part of an unfortunate little blow-up that got moved to AAH. If you want to blame someone, I'm right here, bubba.
 
Because it should be as simple as him admitting it or not. Why would that be so hard? You all seem to be pretty proud of yourselves on any hoaxing you get away with, so why not admit it and get all the glory the JREF board provides? Is his personal name being outted? No. It's his username only. Is he worried how the BFF would react? I thought the JREF board was about the truth, yet suddenly it isn't?
 
Hey Manzer...have you stopped beating your wife yet?

Yep - that's just a little joke to show you how silly it is to demand answers to questions that are none of your business.
 
Because it should be as simple as him admitting it or not. Why would that be so hard? You all seem to be pretty proud of yourselves on any hoaxing you get away with, so why not admit it and get all the glory the JREF board provides? Is his personal name being outted? No. It's his username only. Is he worried how the BFF would react? I thought the JREF board was about the truth, yet suddenly it isn't?

I can't imagine any JREF regulars bothering to hoax a trackway.

Do you have any examples of JREF regulars hoaxing anything related to bigfoot, and then crowing about getting away with it?
 
Because it should be as simple as him admitting it or not. Why would that be so hard? You all seem to be pretty proud of yourselves on any hoaxing you get away with,

If that were true, wouldn't that also mean that bigfoot enthusiasts fooled by the countless hoaxes in the past should feel . . . well, not proud.

In fact, given the piss-poor record for these enthusiasts in regards to evidence, you'd think there'd be more skeptics amongst them.
 
I can't imagine any JREF regulars bothering to hoax a trackway.

I can, but only in the spirit of Randi "hoaxing" people by bending spoons or performing other "psychic" tricks: to demonstrate how easy it is to fool people, and how there's nothing magical involved.

I have a harder time imagining them keeping silent about it, instead of treating it as a valuable lesson that people should be learning, but as long as the hoax both fools people and is revealed as a hoax (as in this case), then it worked. And I can possibly see someone not wanting to have their name known by a crowd of fanatic believers who are known to be armed. At least a few of them may well be unstable and potentially dangerous. The reveal does stand on its own as a valuable lesson, even if some refuse to learn anything from it.

Given the potential danger here--however remote you might think it to be--demanding that someone out themselves as the hoaxer is completely unreasonable. Actually outing the hoaxer against his/her will might even lead to criminal liability if it leads to the hoaxer coming to actual harm. If I were a believer, I'd tread cautiously, no matter how annoyed I might be. Your buddies aren't that stable, and the identity of the hoaxer is really none of your business, no matter how much you might wish it were.

I'm not scared of the idiots, and I'll happily admit to being the hoaxer, but I can understand how someone else might feel differently. Especially if he/she has a personal connection to one or more of the more unstable believers. So, to put it as politely as I can, STFU about demanding anyone reveal their connection, if any, to this hoax!
 
It's just not worth the effort, imo. No one is going to learn any lessons from it, and we already know that footers can be fooled.

Demonstrating that a footer can be fooled is useless, imo.

It's been done many, many times already, to little if any effect.

All you get is the same old thing.

Sure that was a hoax, but this one, this one is the real deal.

Over and over again.

Just look at the tracks that people like Green and Meldrum accept. Just look at the skookum cast.

Heck, sometimes they fool themselves.
 

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