Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[johnny karate]

GZ may have initially thought TM was just a little bit younger than him, and only realized later that he was much younger.

"I thought he was only 9 years younger, but now I realize he was 11 years younger"

Hair-splitting or a lie?

This is actually backwards. Zimmerman reported in his 911 call that he thought Martin was in his late teens. This morning at the hearing he said he thought Martin was a little bit younger than he was.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a lie, but it's a damn strange inconsistency.

 

[Freddy]

This is actually backwards. Zimmerman reported in his 911 call that he thought Martin was in his late teens. This morning at the hearing he said he thought Martin was a little bit younger than he was.

I don't know if I'd go so far as to call it a lie, but it's a damn strange inconsistency.

His "late teens" estimate was at a distance. It's possible that Zimmerman's estimate of trayvon's age changed after seeing him up close. Whether that is plausible depends on what he told investigators. I don't think it's very important, anyway.

 

[triforcharity]

and, BTW - for all thos who linked to weather underground earlier and claimed maybe it wasn't raining much (from the above witness):

Ok, rain, even if two drops, is still technically considered raining, but .01 inches in 2 hours time, is not a heavy downpour, nor is it alot of rain at all.

If you've ever lived in Florida, or visited Florida, you'd understand why this is nothing. I mean, sometimes that is just a humid day here.

.01" is barely raining.

 

[triforcharity]

It is actually the Sanford Fire Department that treated Zimmerman on 2/26 so I didn't mean for the Gainesville reference to be proof of what the SFD had anyways. Knock yourself out trying to prove the SFD doesn't use Celox/quikclot if you want.

I've emailed a buddy of mine that works for Seminole County Fire, to see if they use it, and if he can ask around to see if he knows if Sanford uses it.

I know my county, nor any city within it use it, but some do.

Do you have some "vast medical knowledge" yourself?

I do, but I wouldn't call it vast.

I didn't say this wound was a "strong bleeder", just that head wounds in general can have that feature which combined with the difficulty of sticking a bandage to a hair covered area makes me think celox is something that would be ideal for head lacerations.

Yes, it is ideal for head lacs. However, most fire departments don't use them, because of a few reasons Skeptic Ginger and I have already pointed out.

(I'd find the link, but I am drunk and too lazy!! )

I'm not trying to prove his claim is true. I am just showing that it is plausible/possible.

It's absolutely plausible. I will absolutely agree. However, probable? No.

Cheers!

 

[triforcharity]

Well folks, I decided to take the 90 minute online course and I'm excited to announce that I am now an official fellow of the American College of Forensic Examiners Institute. Please let me now if you have any questions. I've just performed an analysis of the screams and I'm about to analyze George Zimmerman's head in the video.

I'm skeptical of this. The Cert number is 666666......but you COULD be the DEVIL!!

 

[LTC8K6]

Zimmerman first describes TM as a guy to the dispatcher.

Zimmerman is later asked by the dispatcher to give an age estimate.

 

[triforcharity]

Who said uncovered ? I said it was covered with antibiotic.

It sounds like you are claiming that a head wound has to be covered by a bandage to make it past a certain number on the johnnykarate severity-o-meter.

Oh, yes, mine too. If you put an antibiotic creme on something, and leave it uncovered, that's called a scratch. I got one the other day working on my house. Maybe I should have gone and got stitches just in case.....

 

[johnny karate]

His "late teens" estimate was at a distance. It's possible that Zimmerman's estimate of trayvon's age changed after seeing him up close. Whether that is plausible depends on what he told investigators. I don't think it's very important, anyway.

Well, the problem is Martin was in his late teens, so Zimmerman was able to make that call at a distance but got it wrong when he got closer? Are we to believe that Martin looked younger the farther way you got from him?

And then there's the issue of Zimmerman saying he didn't know if Martin was armed as a reason he was in fear for his life and/or shot him. Yet he told police it was because Martin was beating him and attempted to reach for his gun.

Quite frankly, it seems like Zimmerman was attempting to portray Martin as more threatening than he really was.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Ok, rain, even if two drops, is still technically considered raining, but .01 inches in 2 hours time, is not a heavy downpour, nor is it alot of rain at all.

If you've ever lived in Florida, or visited Florida, you'd understand why this is nothing. I mean, sometimes that is just a humid day here.

.01" is barely raining.

I can link to claims about it 'raining hard' if you would like ?

 

[LTC8K6]

http://www.examiner.com/article/george-zimmerman-s-911-call-transcribed#ixzz1qGhAp7XZ

Might pay to review Zimmerman's 911 call.

 

[johnny karate]

Oh, yes, mine too. If you put an antibiotic creme on something, and leave it uncovered, that's called a scratch. I got one the other day working on my house. Maybe I should have gone and got stitches just in case.....

Thanks for your input, tri.

There was a debate earlier in the thread whether it would be unusual for a laceration to need a butterfly bandage the following day, but no bandage of any kind within an hour of being inflicted.

This stems from the fact that Zimmerman's neighbors reported seeing him with butterfly bandages the day after the incident, despite the fact that he didn't have any in the police surveillance video.

My contention is that the neighbors are mistaken, or Zimmerman staged it.

Care to comment?

Also, have you seen the recently released photo of Zimmerman's injuries taken minutes after the incident?

http://gothamist.com/attachments/byakas/42012zimmemran1.jpg

Just curious to know your professional opinion on the severity of those injuries, and whether or not you think they warrant stitches.

 

[triforcharity]

Johnny Karate wants you to be his Florida EMT expert.

Ok, that's fine, but I am a NREMT-P to be exact. (Nationally Recognized EMT-Paramedic ) EMT is basic and some advanced life support, and a Medic can start IV's and push medication.

Are you supporting what he is saying above?

Generally speaking, yes. It is highly unlikely that the SFD used a product like this. They are used for basic "First Responders" like lifeguards, police officers, and the like. People with minimal training, and limited supplies. A typical ambulance of fire rescue squad has tons of equipment and numerous supplies at their disposal.

Do you think it would be impossible for GZ to have a head wound that "closed" without bandages or stitches but later might have legitimately benefitted from a butterfly bandage?

Impossible? No. Unlikely? Yes. And since I am sure you'll ask, I have seen the ABC photos of what is claimed to be GZ's head wounds.

Butterfly strips are used for a wound that is prone to reopening. Such as near a hand or some place that flexes often, or in a place that would bend, like an elbow or knee. I personally would use a bandage (4x4 gauze) and a roll type bandage to secure his wound. And no, antibiotic wouldn't have been used.

If it had required no bandage, it would signify that it wasn't anything more than a superficial wound, and a band aid would have sufficed. (This is of course not practical on a head wound where the hair is. Super glue would have been more practical)

As far as using hemostatic agents I would definitely defer to a Florida EMT as far the likelihood of there being used. "Rarely" is not the most helpful qualifier for this discussion though, the question is might celox (or a similar product like combat gauze) have been used by the SFD giving aid to GZ?

Possible? Sure. However, highly unlikely. See above.

Also, as a side issue. Shouldn't there have been some concern about a concussion? The head cuts are nothing serious, it's the implication of force to his head against the pavement they imply that is cause for concern.

Absolutely. If as GZ has claimed that his head was repeatedly slammed into the concrete, a concussion, head, and neck injuries would have been a major concern. Concussion being the least of his worries, in my professional opinion.

Hope this helps.

 

[triforcharity]

First photo of Zimmerman's injuries, taken 3 minutes after the shooting.

http://abcnews.go.com/US/george-zim...-bloodied-back/story?id=16177849#.T5FLy9mHfTp

OTOH, it is reported that GZ put his hands on his head immediately after the shooting so perhaps some of the blood may be Trayvon's. It is reported that there is gunshot residue visible on TM's jersey, so he was shot at close range. There will be blood.

Here's my whole problem with this.

In the initial police report, it says that at 7:17pm, police arrived and placed Zimmerman in handcuffs, and put him in the back of a police cruiser.

Who took this picture? If it wasn't the police, why was a bystander allowed to be that close to Zimmerman?

Something smells fishy.

 

[triforcharity]

Then I'll ask you the same thing I have yet to hear a reasonable answer for. Why couldn't TM make it home in the time GZ was on the phone to 911, especially after he said he didn't know where TM was. At that point, TM had to likely travel 250 feet to be safe at home to get away. The fact that he didn't doesn't make any sense to me.

No, you've ignored them, and tried to handwave it all away, because they were perfectly reasonable, and it's obvious you're still butthurt about it.

 

[LTC8K6]

A witness took it with an iphone immediately after the shooting, apparently. Supposedly the pic has gps and time data that matches. The police weren't there yet.

 

[LTC8K6]

The photographer, who was not immediately identified, told ABC News that he saw Martin's body on the wet grass the night he was killed in late February and gunpowder burns on his now-infamous hoodie.

Shortly after the shooting, Zimmerman, the witness said, asked him to call his wife. The photographer reportedly said when asked what to tell Zimmerman's wife, he said, "Man, just tell her I shot someone."

Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...oodied-trayvon-martin-death-article-1.1064765


The photograph appears to be the first publicly disclosed piece of evidence that could help support Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense. Sources tell ABC News that investigators have seen the photograph and are aware of the photographer’s story.
The person who took the photograph told ABC News he heard Martin and Zimmerman fighting before the shooting and that after Martin was killed, Zimmerman asked the photographer to call Zimmerman’s wife, allegedly blurting out, “Man, just tell her I shot someone.”
GPS and other data embedded in the photo shows it was taken at the scene with an iPhone just three minutes after the shooting, according to ABC News.

http://www.wftv.com/news/news/local/abc-news-photo-taken-after-trayvon-martin-shooting/nMdbw/

 

[TheL8Elvis]

No, you've ignored them, and tried to handwave it all away, because they were perfectly reasonable, and it's obvious you're still butthurt about it.

Wonderfully immature term. Welcome to ignore.

 

[triforcharity]

No, sorry. I meant someone like the police rolled him over. I would also think they worried about first aid and checking out the boy on the ground more than shooing people away at that point ?

Actually, you're completely and UTTERLY wrong on this.

This was an active HOMICIDE crime scene. Preserving any evidence and securing the crime scene and anyone involved is the very FIRST priority. This was done according to the Police report. One officer went to check on Treyvon, and the other secured Zimmerman.

You're ignorance knows absolutely no bounds WRT: this thread topic....

 

[johnny karate]

The photograph appears to be the first publicly disclosed piece of evidence that could help support Zimmerman’s claim of self-defense.

I'm not sure how scratches on the back of the head necessarily support a claim of self-defense. It only confirms there was a physical altercation, which isn't in question.

If anything, that photo undermines Zimmerman's credibility since they reveal injuries not nearly as severe as we were lead to believe.

(And yes, I realize this is a quote from a news article and not necessarily the opinion of LTC8K6.)

 

[triforcharity]

Interesting. Like I said, the DA kept trying to discuss Zimmerman possibly changing his story during several interviews, but the judge kept disallowing it. I wonder if this is a regular thing with him.

It's discussing evidence, not what the hearing was about, and that was bond.