Trayvon Martin, Vigilante Justice

[KatieG]

He's perfectly capable of defending himself but if there's one thing that drives me nuts it's when people start purposely misrepresenting what someone else said. Your "read" is wrong, that should be clear if you bothered to read the statement he was responding to. He was simply making a dispassionate explanation of the law. And if that statement was not clear enough you have a hundred others from him to go off of.

I'm sorry, I didn't know I had to check with you before I was allowed to form an opinion.

 

[RandFan]

Zimmerman testifies and apologizes and states that he did not know if Martin was armed.

http://www.cnn.com/video/?hpt=hp_t1#/video/crime/2012/04/20/nr-zimmerman-statement.cnn

 

[Dancing David]

The redacted police files will be released, though - so there should be some new information.

"He reached a much higher plane of creativity the following day when he blacked out everything in the letters but a, an and the."
Catch 22

 

[Unabogie]

I hope the state lets someone else try this case. That guy just wasn't ready to do his job.

 

[lane99]

Is he lying?

"I am sorry for the loss of your son. I did not know how old he was. I thought he was a little bit older than I was," Zimmerman said addressing Martin's family directly.

But the transcript of Zimmerman's call to police has him describing Martin's age as "late teens".

Zimmerman is what, 28? So why is Zimmerman now telling the boy's family he thought Martin was a bit older than him?

 

[BenBurch]

Is there anywhere GZ will be safe when released?

 

[Noztradamus]

Neither was TM . So I don't think TM had any reason to believe that he was being stalked by a crazy "admirer". In that situation I agree, it would be perfectly reasonable to not want the stalker to have the slightest idea where you live.

Lurking near a recreation centre, scoping out teenage boys.

 

[Lanzy]

Wow, just read that even manslaughter can be 30 years. They double it here in FL if committed against a minor.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

But the transcript of Zimmerman's call to police has him describing Martin's age as "late teens".

Zimmerman is what, 28? So why is Zimmerman now telling the boy's family he thought Martin was a bit older than him?

"I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son," Zimmerman said while on the stand. "I did not know how old he was, I thought he was a little bit younger than I am, and I did not know if he was armed or not."


That is a bit at odds with what he said on the call. I'm not sure how that is really going to cause a problem for him, though.

 

[Unabogie]

But the transcript of Zimmerman's call to police has him describing Martin's age as "late teens".

Zimmerman is what, 28? So why is Zimmerman now telling the boy's family he thought Martin was a bit older than him?

Interesting. Like I said, the DA kept trying to discuss Zimmerman possibly changing his story during several interviews, but the judge kept disallowing it. I wonder if this is a regular thing with him.

 

[johnny karate]

Nothing. It's always possible.
And if you think he's guilty, I can never escape the conjecture of 'well, of course a guilty person would act like X'

My default position is to not automatically believe Zimmerman acted in self-defense just because he says so. He's a guy trying to beat a murder charge. Therefore, everything he says and does is suspect. And as more information about him and the inconsistencies in his story are revealed, it makes me disbelieve him all the more.

That other people seem to just simply believe Zimmerman as their default position remains quite puzzling to me.

This, in my opinion, is your confirmation bias at work.
Of course GZ, being guilty, was already plotting to go to the hospital the next day so he could find a willing accomplice to lie abou this injuries after they were already documented by the EMTs.

It's not a theory I'm necessarily condoning, but merely presented as counter to yours regarding the EMTs not taking Zimmerman to the hospital.

I can't even imagine his state of mind after just shooting and killing someone. Not going to the hospital doesn't really have to make sense to me for it to be a plausible scenario, honestly.

So Zimmerman behaving irrationally in an innocuous manner is plausible, but him behaving irrationally in a perhaps nefarious manner isn't?

Well, it's too bad you didn't answer that question better last night.

Why? What do you suppose that photo shows that invalidates my position?

So, basically, minor injury.

Well, that didn't take long.

So I take it you think the photo indicates severe injuries? What specifically makes you think that?

 

[johnny karate]

"I wanted to say I am sorry for the loss of your son," Zimmerman said while on the stand. "I did not know how old he was, I thought he was a little bit younger than I am, and I did not know if he was armed or not."


That is a bit at odds with what he said on the call. I'm not sure how that is really going to cause a problem for him, though.

It's an inconsistency. Perhaps a minor one, but any inconsistencies in Zimmerman's story don't reflect well on him.

The other thing he said that puzzles me is this:

... I did not know if he was armed or not.

At what point in time is he talking about? When he first saw Martin? When he got out of his car to follow him? Or when he shot and killed him?

Context would make me think it's the third option, but Zimmerman told the police he thought Martin was going for his gun before he shot him. Seems like a strange thing for him to say.

 

[johnny karate]

When the video of GZ at the police station came out that ABC broke, it was 9-5 media coverage that the video showed no evidence of wounds.

That's because it didn't. As it turns out, those "enhanced" images are not consistent with his actual wounds.

But now that we have a picture taken 3 minutes after the event the story is nowhere to be found in the headlines, other than on ABC that broke the story. It'll be interesting to see if that changes as the day proceeds.

What headline to you expect to see? "Wounds that are virtually invisible on the surveillance video can now be seen in new photo"?

We probably won't see that headline. We also probably won't see a headline indicating that the vertical "gash" from the enhance stills wasn't an accurate portrayal of Zimmerman's injuries, either. Oh well.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

That other people seem to just simply believe Zimmerman as their default position remains quite puzzling to me.

I'm an enigma.

It's not a theory I'm necessarily condoning, but merely presented as counter to yours regarding the EMTs not taking Zimmerman to the hospital.
So Zimmerman behaving irrationally in an innocuous manner is plausible, but him behaving irrationally in a perhaps nefarious manner isn't?

It's possible. I guess plausible depends on how we define it.
I don't believe it's what happened, and haven't seen any evidence that it's what happened. So, is it reasonable to believe that is what happened with no evidence to support that ? No.

Why? What do you suppose that photo shows that invalidates my position? So I take it you think the photo indicates severe injuries? What specifically makes you think that?

Like the video, the photo, in my opinion, is not inconsistent with his claims.
I don't have the medical ability to confirm or deny the claims.

Are you willing to look at the photo and proclaim that in your (medical) opinion the photo confirms:
1) it wasn't caused the way it was claimed by GZ
2) it's impossible someone looked at it the next day and opined it should have been stitched

If not, I guess we will be at an impasse unless someone wrote down somewhere 'should have been stitched' or you tell me how you differentiate a minor head wound from a more serious one.

 

[TheL8Elvis]

Interesting. Like I said, the DA kept trying to discuss Zimmerman possibly changing his story during several interviews, but the judge kept disallowing it. I wonder if this is a regular thing with him.

I wouldn't be surprised if the DA regularly tries to keep going down a line of questioning after a judge disallows it.

 

[sgtbaker]

Of course I was out all day and missed the hearing. That figures. Maybe I missed someone else commenting on it but does nobody else think it's weird that three minutes after shooting a teenager, he's got a clear enough mind to think, hey, take a picture of my injuries, I might need that. I have no reason to think they are faked or enhanced, AFAIK, they are legit. It's just odd that, given the severity of the situation, his mind would go to that.

 

[brenn]

You can drop the 'tude. But here's your answer. My read on your statement is you think TM threw the first punch since he was the one being followed.

That is the undisputed evidence I have seen from many different media sources. Are you aware of any statement by witness to the contrary or any statement by the police that the physical evidence is contrary? I don't believe that even the girlfriend who heard it has claimed that Zimmerman threw the first punch. Where there is only 1 witness who claims to have seen the first punch, and no evidence to the contrary, the 1 witness, Zimmerman, is what you've got.

 

[Cylinder]

Based on my uneducated understanding, the courts should only take into account flight risk to determine bond and monitoring, but I'm guessing that this may help assuage public outrage which has taken on a life of its own.

I mean, I didn't expect it to be anywhere near that low. I figures he would be looking at $500K or so. $150K is cheap for a murder charge.

 

[brenn]

Of course I was out all day and missed the hearing. That figures. Maybe I missed someone else commenting on it but does nobody else think it's weird that three minutes after shooting a teenager, he's got a clear enough mind to think, hey, take a picture of my injuries, I might need that. I have no reason to think they are faked or enhanced, AFAIK, they are legit. It's just odd that, given the severity of the situation, his mind would go to that.

As part of my job, I've reviewed audio, video, witness statements, etc., from many cases where people have shot and killed others. While they are usually police officers, I have seen no evidence of not being able to discuss the events or not being clear headed. In fact, perfectly calm calls for an ambulance and starting to document the evidence are perfectly normal reactions, starting within minutes. Even among civilians, I've seen a guy involved in a large gun battle and seriously (mortally) wounded, why sat down and lit a cigartte and opened a beer and was able to clearly discuss it while waiting for an ambulance.

 

[johnny karate]

Like the video, the photo, in my opinion, is not inconsistent with his claims.
I don't have the medical ability to confirm or deny the claims.

Are you willing to look at the photo and proclaim that in your (medical) opinion the photo confirms:
1) it wasn't caused the way it was claimed by GZ
2) it's impossible someone looked at it the next day and opined it should have been stitched

If not, I guess we will be at an impasse unless someone wrote down somewhere 'should have been stitched' or you tell me how you differentiate a minor head wound from a more serious one.

Well, obviously my opinion is that of a layperson, and I would entirely defer to anyone with actual medical knowledge.

But stitches? No, I'm still not seeing that. Scalp wounds bleed a lot, and relatively speaking, there isn't that much blood in those photos. The actual wounds also look very small. And of course, my sticking point remains the lack of a bandage in the surveillance video. I still don't see how a wound that needs stitches wouldn't necessitate at least a band-aid if no stitches are administered. That simply doesn't not make any sense.