Is Islam an evil religion?

[I Ratant]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=3d81824a08

hoax?

.
That one wasn't on the list of those I looked at.
I have no doubt those occur..as well as burnings to death, beheadings, stonings, hangings, shootings which are also on the 'net.
Those are savage countries where such things happen.

 

[DC]

.
That one wasn't on the list of those I looked at.
I have no doubt those occur..as well as burnings to death, beheadings, stonings, hangings, shootings which are also on the 'net.
Those are savage countries where such things happen.

well actually it is a very old video, i have seen it on an old Faces of Death Video when i was a teenager. and it is not from Iran as claimed, but the cutting is real i think.

but actually i have no clue how often and if that still is done.

 

[A'isha]

So arguing against religion is disgusting?

Arguing about anything from a position of total ignorance, whether willful or not, when literally libraries worth of information about that thing are freely available, is disgusting to me.

I feel the same way when arguing against Creationists in evolution threads here.

And the fact that 1.6 billion believe in it gives it credence?

I refuse to believe you truly didn't understand what I was saying when I brought up that fact.

What I find remarkably disgusting is your continued hatred of anyone who disagrees with you.

If you really think that what I'm doing in my replies to your posts is "hatred", then I...actually, I have no idea how you could conceivably think that, barring some utterly bizarre and improbable threshold for what constitutes "hate".

 

[A'isha]

but actually i have no clue how often and if that still is done.

Saudi Arabia definitely still does it.

 

[tsig]

Stay on task tsig, you're setting up straw men.

It almost disgusts me that I have to do the above, actually, since it's trivially easy for anyone to find reams of scholarly, theological, and historical information about the subject, revealing that "Islam" is just as "good", just as "evil", just as conflicted and contradictory and splintered as anything else that has to encompass the lives and views of 1.6 billion human beings and 1400 years of global history.

Straw?

 

[A'isha]

It almost disgusts me that I have to do the above, actually, since it's trivially easy for anyone to find reams of scholarly, theological, and historical information about the subject, revealing that "Islam" is just as "good", just as "evil", just as conflicted and contradictory and splintered as anything else that has to encompass the lives and views of 1.6 billion human beings and 1400 years of global history.

Straw?

Yes, replying to that as if it boiled down to "arguing against religion is disgusting" is indeed a strawman.

 

[Lowpro]

Straw?

...yes yes, a Carl Sagan "billion" times yes. You've forgotten the paragraph before that particular one:

What I will do, however, is continue to correct the utterly mistaken notions that the above are exclusive to, inherent in, or universal in Islam. Despite the fact that that should be blatantly obvious to anyone who's bothered to look at what Muslims, scholars, and Muslim scholars say.

You deserve a Lewis Black-style rant.

 

[tsig]

Arguing about anything from a position of total ignorance, whether willful or not, when literally libraries worth of information about that thing are freely available, is disgusting to me.

I feel the same way when arguing against Creationists in evolution threads here.



I refuse to believe you truly didn't understand what I was saying when I brought up that fact.



If you really think that what I'm doing in my replies to your posts is "hatred", then I...actually, I have no idea how you could conceivably think that, barring some utterly bizarre and improbable threshold for what constitutes "hate".

Yes ANTpogo you have all the knowledge in the world about Islam so no one is capable about arguing with you about it.

 

[A'isha]

Yes ANTpogo you have all the knowledge in the world about Islam so no one is capable about arguing with you about it.

If only there were some source about Islam that was outside my iron-fisted, dictatorial reach...

...then maybe you'd be able to learn about Islam outside my apologetic posts and the Real True Truth About Islam represented by loony sites like thereligionofpeace.com and Robert Spencer's jihadwatch.com!

 

[tsig]

If only there were some source about Islam that was outside my iron-fisted, dictatorial reach...

...then maybe you'd be able to learn about Islam outside my apologetic posts and the Real True Truth About Islam represented by loony sites like thereligionofpeace.com and Robert Spencer's jihadwatch.com!

I guess I'm going to have to tell you again that I'm an atheist so any comparison of Islam with Christianity just doesn't work for me. It seems to me that your love for Islam stems from your hate of Christianity maybe one day you'll see that all religions are evil.

 

[Craig B]

I guess I'm going to have to tell you again that I'm an atheist so any comparison of Islam with Christianity just doesn't work for me. It seems to me that your love for Islam stems from your hate of Christianity maybe one day you'll see that all religions are evil.

Can't see that you're spouting gibberish? - I'm an atheist so I can't compare one religion with another, but I can say that by trying to be evenhanded you love one and not the other ... Anyway they're all evil, but you're a Christianity-hating "I-lover", and so on, and on.

It's impossible to make any sense of this, and not worth the effort.

 

[DC]

I guess I'm going to have to tell you again that I'm an atheist so any comparison of Islam with Christianity just doesn't work for me. It seems to me that your love for Islam stems from your hate of Christianity maybe one day you'll see that all religions are evil.

ANTPogo has sayd all religions are evil and good. when i am not misstaken.

 

[FireGarden]

So arguing against religion is disgusting? And the fact that 1.6 billion believe in it gives it credence?

ANTPogo said "It almost disgusts me that I have to do the above,..." The 'above' being highlighting errors which are easily avoided by reading reliable sources which are freely available. Plus, that you are making generalisations about a large group of people with very obvious differences of opinion regarding their beliefs.

However, I think 'disgust' is a bit of a strong word. Why?

Because I think your mistakes are honest. So many of your comments have had no real understanding of the posts you quoted that I feel you have a genuine difficulty with reading comprehension. I realise there's no way of saying that without making it sound like a personal attack, but I intend it as a defence of you: you are not mean or intentionally bigoted. I would say you are a good person, just not able to follow a conversation. You tend to see in words what you expect to see rather than what is present. Which is why you see reflexive defense of Islam from people who have criticised Islam -- I provided examples to Bill Thompson, ANTPogo linked to a thread where she criticised some aspects of divorce. (I think that was one of my examples, too).

Perhaps it would be more instructive to link to a conversation where things went better. You asked:

What I don't understand is why you argue so hard in defense of Islam. Is it the exoticness of it? Is it because you think they're the poor oppressed minority?

It's been explained, but you didn't get it. To correct your generalisations is not the same as saying there is no instance in which what you say applies.

It might help to give an example in which people discussed the understanding of another religion:

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?t=147318

In post 5, Marksman comes in to correct the opening post. What do you think his motives were? How was his position on the matter dealt with by other people in the thread? What about when Parky (Thunder), who identified himself as a Jew, said:

correct. this is a Khabbalistic belief, one that I have NEVER heard of before.

i was taught, that all souls will be resurrected when the Messiah comes. but reincarnation???? this is not a jewish idea.

Are the references which show this is wrong a defence of reincarnation and/or Judaism?

When Parky says:

If a Catholic priest said something like this, the ADL and other groups would rise up in comdemnation. But because this is a rabbi, silence prevails.

=(

Do you feel anykind of empathy for his position?

Does this sound familiar?:

First off, I don't believe in karma, so please don't think I scrib to the rabbi's beliefs. I've studied them -- I don't accept them.

Please read the thread. You'll see my own position changing. As well as other people understanding what Marksman was saying. It's a matter of bringing about understanding to people who had gotten things wrong.

Plus you'll see a debate on a topic which you, perhaps, are less emotional about. Maybe then you will see what is happening here.

Again, I say this to you becuase I think it is worth my time to say this to you. It is not like when I post responses to Bill Thompson, which I now do only because I think people other than Bill might benefit from them.

 

[kmortis]

Keep it civil. Keep it polite. Here, take a time out and watch this instructional video.

Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: kmortis

 

[Bill Thompson]

Every religion is different. The question might not be if Islam is an evil religion but, instead, should Islam survive according to modern interpretations of right and wrong.

• Is it right for a man to have sex with a prepubescent girl according to modern interpretations of right and wrong?
• Is it right for a husband to beat his wife?
• Is it right for an organization have a policy to lie for the sole purpose of saving its skin or promoting its global penetration?
• Should a religion exist that is against human rights and the existance of people of other religions?
• Shoud a religion be allowed to exist if it denies the will of the people in a number of other countries and domoniates the rules of law and ethics?
• Should a religion be allowed to exist if it is directly opposed to free speech?

And the list goes on and on and on.

No, other religions are not just as bad.

Religions come and go. It is how history has been going. We look back at what people believed 3 thousand years ago and we are shocked that people believed such silliness. Three thousand years from today, people in the future will do the same about us.

 

[A'isha]

Every religion is different. The question might not be if Islam is an evil religion but, instead, should Islam survive according to modern interpretations of right and wrong.

• Is it right for a man to have sex with a prepubescent girl according to modern interpretations of right and wrong?
• Is it right for a husband to beat his wife?
• Is it right for an organization have a policy to lie for the sole purpose of saving its skin or promoting its global penetration?
• Should a religion exist that is against human rights and the existance of people of other religions?
• Shoud a religion be allowed to exist if it denies the will of the people in a number of other countries and domoniates the rules of law and ethics?
• Should a religion be allowed to exist if it is directly opposed to free speech?

And the list goes on and on and on.

And, as I've repeatedly attempted to explain to you, there is no single answer to any of those questions in "Islam". Instead, there are a huge number of divergent opinions about each and every one of those topics (along with hundreds more topics). And not just random man-on-the-street divergence of opinion, but divergence among authoritative scholars and jurists within the religion itself.

 

[Craig B]

Should a religion be allowed to exist ... Should a religion be allowed to exist ... Should a religion be allowed to exist ... Yes, yes, and yes. And the adherents who commit no crimes should be Left in peace. Remember Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli 1797.

 

[Bill Thompson]

I think you enjoy posting little facts about other religion because it is kind of a way of convincing yourself and others that Islam is good in a sort of non sequitur way.

But you do not acutally come out and say "...and this means Islam is good" because you probably know that is not really true.

Religions come and go. It is how history has been going. We look back at what people believed 3 thousand years ago and we are shocked that people believed such silliness. Three thousand years from today, people in the future will do the same about us.

 

[Bill Thompson]

Should a religion be allowed to exist ... Should a religion be allowed to exist ... Should a religion be allowed to exist ... Yes, yes, and yes. And the adherents who commit no crimes should be Left in peace. Remember Article 11 of the Treaty of Tripoli 1797.

There is a little thing wrong with this logic. From time to time (just as in Mormonism) there are little groups that break away and find out what their holy scripture REALLY says and then the rules of laws of nations become meaningless to them. I this sense, Osama bin Laden was not evil. He was just a fundamentalist.

 

[Mister Agenda]

But you do not acutally come out and say "...and this means Islam is good" because you probably know that is not really true.

Amazing insight.