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Granted, I do prefer my Jew-haters to be honest. The world would be a far less perilous place if they all just wore swastika armbands and left the guesswork out of it.

The ones that come this way (into HD) tend to be more subtle (recognizing that it's all relative); ergo, my belief that approaching them must be done more subtly.
 
Originally Posted by Mondial
David Cole with Mark Weber on the Montel Williams show





I wonder why? Sword of Truth forgets to mention this little detail.:):) Bear in mind that this group of criminal thugs have bombed, maimed and killed others and threatened their families as a matter of policy for decades. They are the muscle end of the holocaust industry. Here's a sample of their work regarding Cole. Talk about 'Hate Speech'!!


Quote:
David Cole: Monstrous Traitor
Robert J. Newman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Note: The following piece was posted by the Jewish Defense League at: http://www.jdl.org/Traitor_amer.html . This piece probably represents the single worst piece of hate ever posted on the World Wide Web. We have reproduced this piece here to help explain what happened and what was done to David Cole. We denounce this and all other forms of hate.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

JDL in America

David Cole: Monstrous Traitor
By Robert J. Newman

He has managed to stir the gullible masses with hatred, lies and deception. Just like a low-lying snake that slithers from dark place to dark place, he spreads his venom to innocent victims.

This is David Cole, who takes pride in his demonic occupation: Holocaust denier of the Six Million Jews.

Cole is a young Jewish man with an evil plan: To alter history and to deny documented facts. A revolting and horrible monster is this so-called Jew.

Edited by LashL: 
Removed quote of moderated content


Do know what the above is?

Let me tell you what it is not. It has nothing to do with threatening, finding or harming David Cole.

David Cole could be found and harmed at any time.

What was it? It was a warning, a not so veiled threat to any Jew, or anyone for that matter, who chooses to speak against the "JDL's Holocaust."

It was a warning, a not so veiled threat to any Jew, or anyone for that matter, who chooses to speak against JDL interests.
 
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Not really,If you deny the Holocaust you are a Nazi admirer and therefore a Jew hater. I just want to know why our deniers have this hatred,all they have to do is summon up the guts to answer the question once and I won't ask it again

I can only speak for myself here, but I will try to clarify my evolving position and how I have come to this point.

First of all, I do not hate Jews or any people on the basis of their ethnic or religious affiliations. In my former profession, I had several occasions to investigate neo-Nazi groups as a result of alleged criminal activities they were involved in. Collegues of mine have infiltrated some of these white supremacist groups under deep cover to gather intel and build cases against members of these groups.

From what I can ascertain by first hand and reliable second hand knowledge of these groups is that they were not what you call "holocaust deniers" but rather white supremacist Jew haters who believe that Hitler and the Nazis mass exerminated Jews and that he was stopped short of completing the task of killing all of them. These are dangerous hate criminals who many times act out on their hatred by assaulting and sometimes killing innocent members of ethnic groups who they irrationally hate. In recent past US history, these types of groups were quite prevalent and very powerful politically in some regions. Today, they are small pockets of misfits who rear their heads once in a while, strike out at someone then get slapped down immediately by the authorities.

The men like Butz, Farrussion, Zundel, Rudolph, Weber and others are not in the catagory of the former group by any means. These are revisionist historians who dispute historical facts in a peaceful and orderly manner as per the first ammendment of the US Constitution. None of them have been charged with committing any acts of violence against Jews or suggested that others should physically attack Jews or anyone else.

What is troubling to me is the way many of these revisionists have been persecuted and physically attacked and intimidated by the so called good guys. I am in favor of the free exchange of ideas peacefully by civilized debate. I have recently watched a debate between Mark Weber of IHR and Michael Shermer of Skeptics Magazine. This was a respectful exchange between two obviously intelligent and knowledgable men who had several disagreements regarding the holocaust. Neither men came off as irrational hate mongers, there was no name calling or threatening words bandied about and both men made some valid points. I think that this form of discussion is the reasonable way to approach the topic of holocaust revisionism rather than the hateful ADL,JDL style approach that has been used here on this forum and in the mainstream press.

Cheers
 
I can only speak for myself here, but I will try to clarify my evolving position and how I have come to this point.

First of all, I do not hate Jews or any people on the basis of their ethnic or religious affiliations. In my former profession, I had several occasions to investigate neo-Nazi groups as a result of alleged criminal activities they were involved in. Collegues of mine have infiltrated some of these white supremacist groups under deep cover to gather intel and build cases against members of these groups.

From what I can ascertain by first hand and reliable second hand knowledge of these groups is that they were not what you call "holocaust deniers" but rather white supremacist Jew haters who believe that Hitler and the Nazis mass exerminated Jews and that he was stopped short of completing the task of killing all of them. These are dangerous hate criminals who many times act out on their hatred by assaulting and sometimes killing innocent members of ethnic groups who they irrationally hate. In recent past US history, these types of groups were quite prevalent and very powerful politically in some regions. Today, they are small pockets of misfits who rear their heads once in a while, strike out at someone then get slapped down immediately by the authorities.

The men like Butz, Farrussion, Zundel, Rudolph, Weber and others are not in the catagory of the former group by any means. These are revisionist historians who dispute historical facts in a peaceful and orderly manner as per the first ammendment of the US Constitution. None of them have been charged with committing any acts of violence against Jews or suggested that others should physically attack Jews or anyone else.

What is troubling to me is the way many of these revisionists have been persecuted and physically attacked and intimidated by the so called good guys. I am in favor of the free exchange of ideas peacefully by civilized debate. I have recently watched a debate between Mark Weber of IHR and Michael Shermer of Skeptics Magazine. This was a respectful exchange between two obviously intelligent and knowledgable men who had several disagreements regarding the holocaust. Neither men came off as irrational hate mongers, there was no name calling or threatening words bandied about and both men made some valid points. I think that this form of discussion is the reasonable way to approach the topic of holocaust revisionism rather than the hateful ADL,JDL style approach that has been used here on this forum and in the mainstream press.

Cheers
I would suspect that these revisionist have a hidden agenda. I don't see any other reason for denying the Holocaust.
 
Quote:
David Cole: Monstrous Traitor
Robert J. Newman



Do know what the above is?

Let me tell you what it is not. It has nothing to do with threatening, finding or harming David Cole.

David Cole could be found and harmed at any time.

What was it? It was a warning, a not so veiled threat to any Jew, or anyone for that matter, who chooses to speak against the "JDL's Holocaust."

It was a warning, a not so veiled threat to any Jew, or anyone for that matter, who chooses to speak against JDL interests.

You missed this bit.

As anyone who follows the subject of the Holocaust denial knows, from 1991 until 1994 I was well known in the movement as a Jewish Holocaust denier (a self-described "revisionist"). For the last three years I have no longer been associated with this movement, having realized that I was wrong and that the path I was taking with my life was self-destructive and hurtful to others. I have spent the last few years in silence on the subject of my time with the denial movement, a silence caused mainly by my shame at what I had done with my life and my desire to distance myself from that life.

However, in that shame-induced silence it has been brought to my attention that I have not gone as far as I should have to make a clear and complete public statement in order to set the record straight as to where I stand.

It is my great hope that this statement accomplishes that task.

I would like to state for the record that there is no question in my mind that during the Holocaust of Europe's Jews during World War Two, the Nazis employed gas chambers in an attempt to commit genocide against the Jews. At camps in both Eastern and Western Europe, Jews were murdered in gas chambers which employed such poison gases as Zyklon B and carbon monoxide (in the Auschwitz camp, for example, the gas chambers used Zyklon B). The evidence for this is overwhelming and unmistakable.

The Nazis intended to kill all of the Jews of Europe, and the final death toll of this attempted genocide was six million. This atrocity, unique in its scope and breadth, must never be forgotten.

During my four years as a denier, I was wracked with self-hate and loathing, a fact that many of my critics were quick to point out. Indeed, this self hatred was obvious to most, but I was too blind to see it. The hate I had for myself I took out on my people. I was seduced by pseudo-historical nonsense and clever-sounding but empty ideas and catch-phrases. When my eyes were finally opened, thanks to several good, kind friends who refused to give up on me even at my worst, I was horrified by what I had done. My instinct was to flee and never look back, but I now understand that I owe it to the people I wronged to make a forceful repudiation of my earlier views. I also owe a very large apology, not only to the many people I enraged, and to the family and friends I hurt, but especially to the survivors of the Holocaust, who deserve only our respect and compassion, not re-victimization.

Therefore, to all of the above people, let me offer my most humble and very, very sincere apology. I am sorry for what did, and I am sorry for the hurt I caused.

And just as I must set the record straight concerning my views, it is also incumbent on me to set the record straight regarding the video "documentaries" and media appearances I did from 1991 to 1994. These "documentaries" are merely videotaped garbage filled with self-hatred and pseudo-intellectual nonsense. My "media appearances" were nothing but an embarrassment. My glazed look, specious reasoning, and talking-in-circles during my talk show appearances would have hopefully alerted any astute viewers that this was a man not in touch with reality.

It has been brought to my attention that Bradley Smith is still using one of my videos in advertisements he is running on college campuses. Therefore, I would like to make these additional points: This video is being advertised without my consent, and I denounce this video as being without worth. Bradley Smith is no historian, and denial is no "historical field". Students on college campuses should look elsewhere to find out about the Holocaust. To these students I would say, look to books like Hilberg's "Destruction of the European Jews", Yahil's "The Holocaust", and Dawidowicz's "War Against the Jews" for correct information. If your school library doesn't stock these books, have them order copies. Do not pay any attention to any "David Cole" videos, except to rightly denounce them as frauds.

I am thankful for being given the opportunity to make this statement. This statement is made freely and under no duress, and is quite willingly, even happily, given to Mr. Irv Rubin of the Jewish Defense League for the widest possible distribution. This statement is the most current and accurate compilation of my views, and it supersedes an previous writings, videos, or statements. It is my hope that there will be no more confusion as to where I stand. I thank you for letting me set the record straight.

[Signed]

David Cole

[notarized]
 
I can only speak for myself here, but I will try to clarify my evolving position and how I have come to this point.

First of all, I do not hate Jews or any people on the basis of their ethnic or religious affiliations. In my former profession, I had several occasions to investigate neo-Nazi groups as a result of alleged criminal activities they were involved in. Collegues of mine have infiltrated some of these white supremacist groups under deep cover to gather intel and build cases against members of these groups.

From what I can ascertain by first hand and reliable second hand knowledge of these groups is that they were not what you call "holocaust deniers" but rather white supremacist Jew haters who believe that Hitler and the Nazis mass exerminated Jews and that he was stopped short of completing the task of killing all of them. These are dangerous hate criminals who many times act out on their hatred by assaulting and sometimes killing innocent members of ethnic groups who they irrationally hate. In recent past US history, these types of groups were quite prevalent and very powerful politically in some regions. Today, they are small pockets of misfits who rear their heads once in a while, strike out at someone then get slapped down immediately by the authorities.

The men like Butz, Farrussion, Zundel, Rudolph, Weber and others are not in the catagory of the former group by any means. These are revisionist historians who dispute historical facts in a peaceful and orderly manner as per the first ammendment of the US Constitution. None of them have been charged with committing any acts of violence against Jews or suggested that others should physically attack Jews or anyone else.

What is troubling to me is the way many of these revisionists have been persecuted and physically attacked and intimidated by the so called good guys. I am in favor of the free exchange of ideas peacefully by civilized debate. I have recently watched a debate between Mark Weber of IHR and Michael Shermer of Skeptics Magazine. This was a respectful exchange between two obviously intelligent and knowledgable men who had several disagreements regarding the holocaust. Neither men came off as irrational hate mongers, there was no name calling or threatening words bandied about and both men made some valid points. I think that this form of discussion is the reasonable way to approach the topic of holocaust revisionism rather than the hateful ADL,JDL style approach that has been used here on this forum and in the mainstream press.

Cheers

Were any revisionists gassed? No? Then they weren't persecuted.
 
Were any revisionists gassed? No? Then they weren't persecuted.

http://www.whale.to/b/henry1.html
The funny thing about Cole's retraction is that in a cosmic way it simply confirms what revisionists have been saying all along. For over twenty years, revisionists have said that the German confessions, wildly inaccurate and contradictory, were given not so much in response to direct physical torture as from the desire to protect themselves and above all their families from retaliation and hardship. For Cole's retraction, the JDL boasts that it was the result of their previous page, and that Cole "was afraid for his life and the relatives he supposedly is taking care of." So for those who didn't believe it possible that the Germans involved in the concentration camps could have been intimidated into make abject confessions, the idea is strikingly confirmed by Cole's retraction, and furthermore the JDL is waving the proof right under your nose.

Of course, it's likely that the JDL and other agencies who hypocritically proclaim themselves the protectors of the Jewish people see Cole's recanting differently. No doubt they see it as one more proof, along with the German confessions, of their special and intolerant interpretation of the Holocaust. And that's the key, because now we know what forces inspired both the confessions and the retraction. Because, you see, the most powerful proof of the Holocaust has always been the threat of force.


Were any Jews gassed? No. But they were persecuted.
 
I would suspect that these revisionist have a hidden agenda. I don't see any other reason for denying the Holocaust.

You can suspect all you want, but that is not proof of anything. It is also quite possible that these revisionists are simply presenting their heartfelt opinions which they came to as a result of their research.

On the other hand, I find it hard to believe that those who would viciously physically attack old men like Faurisson, Zundel and Leuchter and young skinny nerdy kids like Cole in a cowardly manner while threatening them to shut up or else, also have a hidden agenda, which I have bolded in the excerpt from the article below.

Thanks

http://www.whale.to/b/zionist.html#Violence_Against_Holocaust_Revisionists_

Conclusion


As this report shows, non-governmental Zionist terrorism has been a problem for more than twenty years. It remains a serious problem today.

Espousing Jewish supremacy, the Zionist terror network operates internationally, linking Israel, Europe and the United States. In addition to the suffering and destruction resulting directly from its many crimes, the network's campaign of bigotry fosters a dangerous climate of hate and intolerance. Through intimidation, threat and violence, Jewish-Zionist terrorists have succeeded in silencing numerous voices. Many others have never spoken up out of fear that they might likewise become victims.

Edited by LashL: 
Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Do not copy and paste lengthy tracts of text from elsewhere. Instead, just cite a short quote and a link to the source.
 
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Were any revisionists gassed? No? Then they weren't persecuted.

And this is from the top of the food chain among the exterminationists here.;);)

In this brilliant historian's view I guess these acts would ot qualify as persecution, only gassings. That's rich!!

Thanks Doc



Violence Against Holocaust Revisionists

Among the most persistent targets of Jewish terrorists in recent years have been those who reject the generally accepted Holocaust story that six million Jews were systematically murdered in Europe during the Second World War.

In recent decades, a growing number of scholars have been citing an impressive body of evidence that raises serious doubts about many supposedly well-documented aspects of the Holocaust story.

Edited by LashL: 
Snipped for compliance with Rule 4. Do not copy and paste lengthy tracts of text from elsewhere. Instead, just cite a short quote and a link to the source.


What I find extremely telling about these "tough guy" loud talking Jewish defenders is that they almost exclusively target scholarly old men and nerdy kids. I am not surprised that these weasly gutless little pukes never target the real Nazi White supremicist groups as they'd get their asses handed to them by these tatooed toothless morons in a heartbeat. LOL
 
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You're saying the Germans executed over 2500 of their own soldiers in 1943?
yes, for all other offenses such as murder, rape, robbery, etc.) 2880, and for desertion 1364 (as I am traveling I will check in Bartov and other sources when I return home but that is what I am saying)
 
I am not surprised that these weasly gutless little pukes never target the real Nazi White supremicist groups as they'd get their asses handed to them by these tatooed toothless morons in a heartbeat. LOL

As long as said White trash have a 10 to 1 advantage. Watch the movie Romper Stomper. I grew up in that environment. And honour was a pretty low priority for skinheads
 
yes, for all other offenses such as murder, rape, robbery, etc.) 2880, and for desertion 1364 (as I am traveling I will check in Bartov and other sources when I return home but that is what I am saying)

My understanding is that number dramatically rose in the closing 18 months of the war
 
Mark Weber is a long-time admitted neo-Nazi. Anyone who's looked at the matter at all knows this.

He's also the ONLY Holocaust denier out there with an advanced history degree (M.A. in German history from Indiana U.). He's also an ex-denier.

So it goes.
 
Um, is it the contention that Israel is funding the JDL?

Really?

You know that the Israeli government tried to ban Kahane from being in the Knesset, right? Two separate times in four years.

Get a *********** clue, guys.

Edited breach of Rule 10. Do not try to evade the auto-censor.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
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Mark Weber is a long-time admitted neo-Nazi. Anyone who's looked at the matter at all knows this.

He's also the ONLY Holocaust denier out there with an advanced history degree (M.A. in German history from Indiana U.). He's also an ex-denier.

So it goes.

Is that supposed to be a response to anything that has been posted on this page?:confused::confused:

I notice that all of you have failed to respond regarding the subject of cowardly attacks against these revisionists that I have pointed out. Does this mean that you secretly approve of the behavior of the Rubins, Kahanes and the Levys and their merry band of loudmouthed gutless criminals?
Wow, you guys are good!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZtbASCE7ZY
 
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As long as said White trash have a 10 to 1 advantage. Watch the movie Romper Stomper. I grew up in that environment. And honour was a pretty low priority for skinheads

I fully agree that the skinheads are devoid of honor or any other desirable quality. They really are a bunch of hateful racist criminals. Why hasn't the JDL made a frontal assault against them? I guess it's easier to beat up old men and sneak around bombing their homes.
 
Um, is it the contention that Israel is funding the JDL?

Really?

You know that the Israeli government tried to ban Kahane from being in the Knesset, right? Two separate times in four years.

Get a *********** clue, guys.

The fact that Kahane was a member of the Knesset speaks volumes about their government. That would be comparable to having Tom Metzger serve as a US Senator. However Israel has a long history of electing terrorist murderers to high government positions. I'm sure that criminal terrorist organizations like JDL have a large base of support in Israel.
 
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This is all very pretty, but isolating one case from the sum total of witness testimonies is entirely useless in the end. Your entire line of argument amounts to nothing more than a gigantic well-poisoning exercise, of the kind we have seen over and over again from deniers: take one case which seems to cast doubt on the hated gas chambers, and then commit the fallacy of hasty generalisation by extending the doubt to every single other testimony.

In my previous post I mentioned the interrogations of Eduard Wirths, Klein's boss, by Gerald Draper, and pointed to several specific issues with the testimony that render an allegation or insinuation of coercion implausible. Your reply doesn't bother to address those points, instead you offer an aside about how Wirths committed suicide after the interrogation.

What is the implication of this in your eyes? That he was bumped off after delivering the goods? But in fact, Wirths' testimonies were not used in any war crimes prosecution in the 1940s and remained virtually unknown to historians until fairly recently.

In fact, this one case turns out to be very interesting. Wirths wrote down a settlement of account of his actions at Auschwitz - something done by several other Auschwitz SS men in 1945-46, not just Broad or Hoess. Wirths' first account of Auschwitz was sent to the Hamburg Kripo, before he was interrogated by the British. The account is clearly intended as a self-exculpation and points to his efforts on behalf of the prisoners, and also cites his former secretary Hermann Langbein as a character witness.

There is a report that Draper said to Wirths when first meeting him, something along the lines of 'I am shaking the hands of the man who killed 4 million at Auschwitz' (paraphrase, forget the exact quote). And the interrogation transcript shows Draper questioning Wirths on precisely this point. But Wirths refuted this and said it was physically impossible as the crematoria did not have a sufficient capacity to achieve such a figure. He then specified that the crematoria had a capacity of 5000 bodies/day. That is sufficiently close to the '4756' document from June 1943 that it is reasonable to infer that Wirths had seen it at some point.

Wirths' written account strongly indicates that he was suffering from PTSD from what he had seen and participated in at Auschwitz. But there are also wartime letters sent to his family, from late 1944, which without breaching the security regulations confirm that he was enormously relieved that 'the whole thing' was over. His suicide was clearly the result of his guilt and his highly strung personality, triggered by fears that he would be prosecuted for war crimes. Draper mentioned for some reason that the Czechs were after him. The Poles would have also very much wanted his ass.

Wirths also admitted that he had supervised medical experimentation at Auschwitz, and IIRC admitted that he himself had carried out such experiments. It does not take much knowledge of the trials to know that doctors who carried out human experimentation received extremely short shrift from the courts (not to mention posterity). Such men often hanged for those crimes, irrespective of whether they had also ordered or taken part in selections for gas chambers.

There is no evidence that Wirths was tortured. There is no evidence that anyone other than Wirths wrote his first (voluntary) account of Auschwitz. There is no evidence that Draper knew what to make Wirths say in an interrogation, and there is strong evidence to indicate that Draper interrogated Wirths from a position of lesser knowledge of Auschwitz than Wirths possessed. The refutation of the 4 million figure is proof of that. There is no evidence that Wirths was fed the 5000/day figure from any source and no such source existed in either the public domain (the Soviet report gave a much higher number) or was in British possession at the time. There is no evidence that Wirths was assisted in any way in his suicide, and plenty of reasons why such an action would have been entirely idiotic. Wirths would, in fact, have made the perfect witness at Nuremberg, had he not committed suicide. His suicide buried his 1945 accounts for a generation and they were not used at all in the 1940s.

Wirths was one SS witness, Klein another. We need to add Entress, Kremer and Muench for the doctors who were interrogated in 1945-6, plus Hoess, Liebehenschel, Kramer, Aumeier, Hoessler, Moll, Moeckel, Broad, Clausen, Grabner and Boger, to name but 16 of the more senior SS men. There are a couple dozen more of lesser stature. They reacted in different ways, as can be documented from the interrogation transcripts and their own writings. Several distorted the facts in order to minimise their responsibility (Aumeier, Moll). Several portrayed themselves as victims (Clausen, Grabner). Most gave chapter and verse on the crime as a whole while obfuscating or omitting their own personal responsibility (Clausen, Broad, Entress). One committed suicide (Wirths) and one died in captivity (Clausen). 10 others were executed, of whom 5 were executed essentially for crimes committed at other concentration camps, not involving gas chambers. 1 jumped an extradition train after leaving a written account confirming, as usual, gassing (Boger). 1 turned state's witness and wasn't prosecuted until the 1960s (Broad). 1 was acquitted in Poland, and 1 had a death sentence commuted (Muench, Kremer).

Out of the 16 senior witnesses mentioned above, there is no evidence of torture or coercion or maltreatment for 14 of them. And by evidence I mean either an external source or the witness claiming to have been tortured.
The evidence for the 'torture' of the two that remain is equivocal at best, and is not of the kind that could have resulted in them singing a false song. In the case of Hoess, the allegation of torture is completely nonsensical when he was in the custody of three separate nation-states; there is no evidence of maltreatment for either his jailing at Nuremberg in US captivity or in Poland. When someone writes out as many pages as Hoess did in Polish captivity, torture cannot have occurred, since it would be physically impossible to produce any written materials under torture or coercion (sleep deprivation through to beatings). And Hoess was extremely detailed in what he described.

So yeah, Hoess got beaten up when first captured. I don't think that's in much dispute. But it is a long way from beating someone up to getting them to tell a story which is untrue. It is also virtually impossible - the pulp fiction description from Rupert Butler, which is almost certainly embellished, does not sound like the kind of environment conducive to producing Hoess's first statement, which is long, and follows a conventional pattern of getting the witness to tell their life story, allowing Hoess to follow the story through to his service after Auschwitz.

Besides which: what is the logic here? There are numerous external sources of various kinds, including a substantial number of documents, to confirm Hoess's testimony and also to show that Hoess misremembered things that are not in apparent dispute. Hoess misdates the introduction of the crematoria, which is otherwise well documented. Most historians have distrusted Hoess's dates for quite some time now.

And similarly, other than Pelt's brief quote, Klein's testimony is mostly disregarded. You can keep Klein if you want, he does not offer useful evidence for historians. Indeed of the 16 senior witnesses mentioned above I would place him virtually dead last. Other witnesses confirm that Auschwitz SS doctors were on a rota for selections, and Klein's own testimony is immaterial on this issue as a result.

Your tell-tales confirm this. Klein waffles around what he did or did not see, and thus his courtroom testimony is useless as historical evidence, it would be of more interest to psychologists. But the falsity of such a confession can go several ways. Suspects and accused do lie, after all, to paint themselves in a better light or to distance themselves from responsibility. Moreover, the distancing routine of 'I heard about this' is not unknown for other Auschwitz SS men, is it? They say they heard about the gassings but they never saw them personally. A figleaf of distance is thereby created, even if the suspect/accused is lying their head off.

To prove that Klein's testimony was false, as in invented, cannot be done from analysing his testimony alone. The truth or falsity of gas chambers does not rest on a solitary witness, and cannot be 'turned' starting with one witness, whether you pick Hoess or Klein or someone else does not make much of a difference. To prove falsity, you would need to prove that all the relevant testimonies (of SS and German witnesses) was false, which has not been done. Any other approach is either going to fall foul of the fallacy of hasty generalisation or resort to the falsus in uno, falsus in omnibus fallacy. End of story.

I notice that Dr Terry avoided the problem with the contamination of the Wirths archive.

This was perhaps not helped by giving a reference to Langbein. In fact the reference should have been Lipton The Nazi Doctors page 403

In a letter to his wife of 27 November 1944, he gushes his pleasure (“Isn’t this a fine thing. I want to kiss you, my love with my deeply felt love.”) at 599 men being decorated with the Iron Cross because of their “bravery”52 referring, it turns out, to the revolt of the Sonderkommando, during which one crematorium was set on fire and a hand grenade was thrown into an SS group; the revolt was quickly put down by SS troops whose bravery consisted of slaughtering everyone remotely suspected of having participated in it.* His letters are full of newsy references to gala social occasions: a special dinner in the Führerhaus for department heads, with half a wild duck for each, a hunt in early January 1945, where he shot six hares and was permitted to keep one (“You, my all, get that one tomorrow”); a Christmas party in 1944 at which a talented SS sergeant sang “As a Small Boy at the Mother's Breast” (Als Knäblein klein an der Mutter Brust) and included a comic sequence of Santa Claus bestowing on Wirths “[not] a medal but a liverwurst” (suggesting that the good physician was a sufficiently important member of the group to be made an object of affectionate fun); and lunches and dinners at the home of Baer, the commandant with whom he was friendly — to the point of becoming the mediator — in the Baers’ extreme marital discord

There doesn't seem many options for dealing with this document.

1. The Wehrmacht really did issue 600 iron crosses for putting down the Sonderkommando revolt. Highly improbable.
2. 600 iron crosses were awarded to Auschwitz staff for other reasons - again highly implausible
3. Wirths believe erroneously that 600 iron crosses were being awarded - difficult to conceive.
4. Wirths letters have been contaminated by person or persons unknown.

The last seems the most plausible explanation. But that is the beauty about Krema Denial, unlike mainstream revisionism or orthodox Hoaxsterism, it is able to explain the entire body of evidence.

Dr Terry will be unable to provide a convincing explanatory paradigm for this document so will simply exclude it, for him it is neither genuine, misinterpreted, or falsified - it simply is a non-document, it is not admitted into the phenomena which his history is obliged to explain.

Removed breach. Keep it civil and address the argument rather than attacking the arguer.
Replying to this modbox in thread will be off topic  Posted By: LashL
 
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