God without The Bible – Challenge to Theists

I think there's a disconnect here. You seem to be assuring me that it really cannot be accounted for, but that is not what I'm asking.
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I am not assuring you of anything, i was asked why i believe. I know that most of the things on my list can be accounted for, they were just on the top of my head at the moment i typed.

Its the absoluteness of things, for apparently no reason at all. Its the everything from nothing. its the way the puzzles fit together so well that make me think that there is a creator.
 
dynasty said:
I am not assuring you of anything, i was asked why i believe. I know that most of the things on my list can be accounted for, they were just on the top of my head at the moment i typed.

Its the absoluteness of things, for apparently no reason at all. Its the everything from nothing. its the way the puzzles fit together so well that make me think that there is a creator.
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Maybe the pieces fit together so nicely precisely because there is no creator.

Think about it. How many things have humans created which didn't have to be revised at some point later on?

Who's to say that a creator is any better at creating than humans, but on a bigger scale?
 
Maybe the pieces fit together so nicely precisely because there is no creator.
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and i admit that that is definitely a possibility, just not one that believe.
 
bikerdruid said:
i have a happy and fulfilled life.
i'm retired in an idyllic place and have a generous pension.
what is it you think i am missing?
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You may be happy and fulfilled with your life but isn't your god hunch/belief an attempt to be happy and fulfilled in facing your inevitable death?

In my opinion you're missing the truth of reality. I guess as with other believers you figure what you believe you're getting is better than what you're missing. I can't lie to myself to that degree.
 
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dynasty said:
I am not assuring you of anything, i was asked why i believe.
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Oh no no... I just meant when you said:
Its the multitude of things not only i cannot account for, but people much smarter than i cannot either.​
...that I'm interpreting the fact that you mention the smarter people not being able to figure it out, as assuring me that they really are mysteries. That's what I meant by assuring me.

Otherwise, I have no idea why you would mention that smart people don't know.

I don't mean that I'm interpreting this as your trying to prove a deity, if that's how you took it.
Its the absoluteness of things, for apparently no reason at all.
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I'm not sure what you mean by absoluteness here. Could you explain?
Its the everything from nothing.
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Not sure it did. We don't know how to describe anything from the end of the Planck epoch earlier; furthermore, if time began at BB, there was no time beforehand for there to be "nothing" in.
its the way the puzzles fit together so well that make me think that there is a creator.
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Not sure what you mean here. You're not talking about things you do know about here, right? I'm assuming you're still referring to mysteries.
 
bikerdruid said:
i am a theist.
i view the bible as a collection of writings about a particular line of believers, largely allegorical and mythological..
it has nothing whatever to do with my beliefs.
i believe the earth to be billions of years old.
i believe that the big bang was the initiating event in the creation of our universe.
i believe in evolution.
how do this fit with your post?
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So your god did what?
 
ynot said:
You may be happy and fulfilled with your life but isn't your god hunch/belief an attempt to be happy and fulfilled in facing your inevitable death?

In my opinion you're missing the truth of reality. I guess as with other believers you figure what you believe you're getting is better than what you're missing. I can't lie to myself to that degree.
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it's a given...i will die.
what difference does it make to you if i believe there is more?
if i'm wrong, i'll never know, will i?
i will still have had a happy and fulfilled life.
i'm not afraid of death, whatever the outcome.
to be honest, i think that is truly a win-win scenario..
 
bikerdruid said:
it's a given...i will die.
what difference does it make to you if i believe there is more?
if i'm wrong, i'll never know, will i?
i will still have had a happy and fulfilled life.
i'm not afraid of death, whatever the outcome.
to be honest, i think that is truly a win-win scenario..
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For some reason reality, truth and honesty (particularly self-honesty) are more important to me than emotional comfort. For me it would be a lose-lose scenario.

I also see too much "bad" created by god type beliefs. The Christian that hates Muslims so he killed 76 people in Norway is a recent example.
 
ynot said:
For some reason reality, truth and honesty (particularly self-honesty) are more important to me than emotional comfort. For me it would be a lose-lose scenario.

I also see too much "bad" created by god type beliefs. The Christian that hates Muslims so he killed 76 people in Norway is a recent example.
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how does any of that relate to me?
i am not a christian.
i am not a muslim.
i don't proselytize.
i have devoted my life to teaching kids to read, write and question everything.
i think it is interesting that you seem to think that i have missed something.
 
ynot said:
Theists say people have existed for around 6000 years. For over 4000 of those years they would have had to have been aware of their God without the “benefit” of what is written in The Bible.

So here's my challenge to Theists . . .

Present your belief that a God exists without referring to The Bible in any way.
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First of all, I don't know any educated person who says that people have been around 6000 years. Secondly, do you define God as an invisible man who lives in the sky? If you do, come on, man, get serious, ok?

So your challenge is easy. The Universe had no logical reason for existance. There should be no such thing as a universe.

A more logical explaination would be that instead of believing that the universe exists because of magic would be that the universe barely exists at all and our known universe is part of a much bigger reality. God is that which no greater can be thought. It makes sense that hour universe is just like a single idea in the mind of a multiverse.
 
Bill Thompson said:
A more logical explaination would be that instead of believing that the universe exists because of magic would be that the universe barely exists at all and our known universe is part of a much bigger reality. God is that which no greater can be thought. It makes sense that hour universe is just like a single idea in the mind of a multiverse.
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Oddly enoug this is impressive to school children but not theoretical physicists.
 
Bill Thompson said:
First of all, I don't know any educated person who says that people have been around 6000 years.
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That's because humanity has been around for 100 thousand and some odd years. That from educated people.

Secondly, do you define God as an invisible man who lives in the sky? If you do, come on, man, get serious, ok?
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We define God as non-existing. As in he has about as much chance to be existing as an invisible sky-daddy.

So your challenge is easy. The Universe had no logical reason for existance. There should be no such thing as a universe.
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Right, with you so far.

A more logical explaination would be that instead of believing that the universe exists because of magic would be that the universe barely exists at all and our known universe is part of a much bigger reality. God is that which no greater can be thought. It makes sense that hour universe is just like a single idea in the mind of a multiverse.
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And you lost me. Care to clean this mess up?
 
RandFan said:
AKA magic.
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Hold on now Rand, let's not jump the gun here. For all you know they might not be promoting Magic. For all you know the wooist may be promoting the Force, Psionics, Divine Glue or the Will or something else equally as absurd as Magic. So let's let them truck out their logic before shooting it full of holes.
 
Bill Thompson said:
huh?

Nope. It is not.

i guess some of us breezed past the Science program. What do you like to watch and learn? We know the smallest part of a much bigger picture.
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We already knew that much. Our star system is infestmally small part of a galaxy that in itself is an infinitely smaller part of a universe that we may never learn everything about. That's all part of this reality and this reality is the only reality that we can be sure of. Any other realities are purely hypothetical at this time.
 
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