The Truth Movement: Finally, Lost in Space

And you still refuse to divulge it.


Why should I? It wouldn't be something new at all. Several people have delivered a "theory" - which is not the same as a "working hypothesis" and I would have to make up -, for example out of my head Jim Hoffman (as proof of concept) or our own 9/11 Investigator. You would just dismiss it as "not plausible" and that's it. Nobody gains.

Wait. Maybe somebody would gain. I asked dafydd why it is important to him (and you?), because I suspect that the answer is what aggle-rithm so ostensively described in his demand to me. He wants me to say something stupid, ill-formulated or plain false so he can "debunk" it and sort me into one of the little cupboards "truthers" belong into. Preferably "kook" or "liar". It's not malice, it's a psychological self-defense mechanism.

I'm not going to feed it.
 
Why should I? It wouldn't be something new at all. Several people have delivered a "theory" - which is not the same as a "working hypothesis" and I would have to make up -, for example out of my head Jim Hoffman (as proof of concept) or our own 9/11 Investigator. You would just dismiss it as "not plausible" and that's it. Nobody gains.

Wait. Maybe somebody would gain. I asked dafydd why it is important to him (and you?), because I suspect that the answer is what aggle-rithm so ostensively described in his demand to me. He wants me to say something stupid, ill-formulated or plain false so he can "debunk" it and sort me into one of the little cupboards "truthers" belong into. Preferably "kook" or "liar". It's not malice, it's a psychological self-defense mechanism.

I'm not going to feed it.

Nobody has, CE. Not ONE truther has come forward and offered up their hypothesis, theory, whatever. The fact that you say some have is just another in a long line of lies.

All truthers have is a mini version of whatever event floats their boat. None have come forward with anything that could be remotely confused with a narrative on the ENTIRE day's events. NONE. If you're so sure, please either offer YOURS or link to one.

The reason we're so keen on seeing yours is the fact that none exist, and it would be new. So that would satisfy the OP. I thought you guys were all about 'gotcha'! -- why pass by the chance to say it?
 
Nobody has, CE. Not ONE truther has come forward and offered up their hypothesis, theory, whatever. The fact that you say some have is just another in a long line of lies.

All truthers have is a mini version of whatever event floats their boat. None have come forward with anything that could be remotely confused with a narrative on the ENTIRE day's events. NONE. If you're so sure, please either offer YOURS or link to one.

The reason we're so keen on seeing yours is the fact that none exist, and it would be new. So that would satisfy the OP. I thought you guys were all about 'gotcha'! -- why pass by the chance to say it?


You are just utterly ill-informed and assume that the discussion resolves around this subforum (like Mackey told you). Which it doesn't. But even on this forum it was done, like I mentioned. Here is the blog our fellow forum member 9/11 Investigator wrote after battling with your colleges for several months. You're not going to like it (neighter do I) and will dismiss it as "not plausible", like I predicted. But you should acknowlege its existence.

Will you apologize for saying that I lied about that? I doubt it, because in a sleight of hand you already accused me of "a long line of lies". Not nice.
 
No. People have asked you to post your hypothesis. You linked to 9/11 investigator, most likely as a way to deny any specifics. Just post YOUR hypothesis, in your own words.

ETA: It would be something new, at least from you.
 
Truther's don't HAVE any real theory; They just want to "fight the man" and that includes not trusting anything "the man" says. If "the man" says that water is wet, well, obviously they have us all hypnotized into thinking it is wet. Wake UP, Sheeple!!!
 
ETA: It would be something new, at least from you.


Ah, at least you concede that it was done before. Go ask Mackey if his challenge would be met and the timer stopped if I tell you my working hypothesis. Be specific - how many words do I have to use, does it have to be more detailed and/or plausible (who's the judge) than 9/11 Investigator's blog and will he retire after i've dunnit? Good luck.
 
Stop stalling and do it already.


Absolutely no substance from you, RedWorm. You just got pwned. Maybe Mackey will chime in and set me straight. Oh, wait, he pretends to have me "on ignore" and is smart enough to understand what i'm saying (i'm talking to you Ryan). Ok, maybe the newbie will come back and apologize. I would appreciate that. We'll see, eh? The two of us are definitely finished, RedWorm. So long.
 
Truther's don't HAVE any real theory; They just want to "fight the man" and that includes not trusting anything "the man" says. If "the man" says that water is wet, well, obviously they have us all hypnotized into thinking it is wet. Wake UP, Sheeple!!!


Really? I think some of them just like to keep their alternative narratives of 9/11 secret, to preserve the freshness.

So that one day, when everyone suddenly realizes "hey wait a minute, small oxygen starved jet fuel fires can't melt steel into its own footprint at freefall speed!" and then we're all "oh noes, all our journalists and scientists and engineers and judges and prosecutors and historians have failed us, we're confused and lost" and pretty soon all of society is paralyzed and despondent and everyone starts pleading, "please, someone tell us what really happened on 9/11, it doesn't need to make logical sense or have any evidence, it just needs to be a story we haven't heard before so we can believe you and follow you and elect you our new chancellor for life," and won't they be in the catbird seat then! -- because they were patient and didn't reveal their goods too soon.

At least, I hope that's what they're thinking. At least that would mean they have a dream.

Respectfully,
Myriad
 
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Nobody has, CE. Not ONE truther has come forward and offered up their hypothesis, theory, whatever. The fact that you say some have is just another in a long line of lies.

There's no complete Truther hypothesis, no. There have been a few bits and pieces, though. Probably the most familiar is the old exploding ceiling tiles fantasy from Jim Hoffman -- in this variant he even goes so far as to claim this answers my challenge (not this thread's challenge, one I threw down years ago), though he actually dreamed it up a long while ago. Another would be the old aggregate How 9/11 Was Done, which is a trite but more detailed than usual version of the "Jews Did It" nonsense.

And of course there is the CIT fragmentary hypothesis, which they have never bothered to state clearly, but must be inferred (this was later confirmed by one of them, posting here as a sockpuppet).

However, no retelling of these meets my criteria, which I invite you to read again. What I am looking for is a Truther to say something new and insightful. Say Hoffman were to revamp his hypothesis above, changing it to something more plausible, consistent with known evidence, etc. Say he produced something testable, and worth testing. I'd be happy with that.

What won't do, of course, is yet another recounting of old Truther lore, or anything totally wild and speculative. A "new" hypothesis centering on nanothermite, hush-a-boom, micronukes, death rays from space, radio-controlled military tankers and columns filled with explosives, not good enough. Similarly, I won't stop the clock for a "new" yet idiotic claim, like the WTC being destroyed by orgone energy, brought low by Jesuit orders calling upon holy fires, or the steel structure turning to rubber due to a shift in Earth's magnetic poles.

It's got to be worth discussion. All the old stuff, everything we've seen before, has gone nowhere and thus has already failed the test. Show me what you've got. So far all I've seen is whinging.
 
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And Now, a Brief Diversion

Just so we have something to talk about while we're waiting for the Truthers to get their act together, let me clean up and retire the satellite dish questions from a page or two back.

"Slewing" and stuff.

By the way, why would a satellite dish be non-functional if at 0.5 to 2 degrees? Wouldn't that depend on how just-over-the-horizon the satellite is?

Slew rate refers to how fast you have to swing your antenna to keep a target in view. The beams formed by high-gain comm antennae (that is, the area that is "in focus") are narrow, typically on the order of a degree for commercial satellite television receivers, and down to about 0.04 degrees, or two minutes of angle, for space communication in X-band. This is about the size of a postage stamp fifty meters away -- very small. Thus, as the Earth rotates and the satellite moves in its orbit, you have to move the antenna to keep up with it. This movement is moderately to very precise depending on the performance you need.

At 0.5 to 2 degrees of elevation, you are unlikely to be able to communicate. Several reasons for this. First, you're forcing the beam to go through a much thicker slice of atmosphere than you would at higher elevation (say > 20 degrees). Weather affects peformance too, and will be much worse. Second, you're now going to pick up interference from the ground which may swamp your weakened signal. Third, at that low angle and pointing west, you will have a Doppler problem that your receiver may not be able to compensate for, due to Earth's rotation, talking to anything but a geosynchronous bird.

Now, these are all things that maybe you can compensate for. At NASA we use a lot of tricks to recover passes, like slowing down the transmission data rate when our signal-to-noise ratio drops too far, but we get to do this because we're the only thing the satellite is talking to. Using a commercial satellite, they don't care about you, they're designed to much different conditions. Still, even we don't try to get an X-band signal at zero elevation. Go ahead and try it, you won't receive a thing.

This is moot, however, since Abbottabad is surrounded by hills, and all of these reach more than 2 degrees apparent elevation from the spot in question. This particular antenna, pointed how it is, cannot see anything.

It is, according to the source, pointed at 260-265 deg west. The elevation is stated as 0.5-2 degrees, but looking at the picture, I would estimate it to be nearer 5-10. At any rate, it is plausible that this direction will intercept a geostationary orbit, somewhere. Where that is requires a bit of math, and much more precise data. It is not a very large disk, so it is doubtful that they can get a reasonable signal; not only is the low beam noise-prone, but it is way out of a satelite's normal beam.

Correct. I was referring to the satellite beam width in my initial assessment.

The other issue, as you note, is lobing. If you try to talk to a geosynchronous satellite, but you do so from the very edge of the planet (from its perspective), then you're insisting that the satellite is illuminating the entire Earth with its signal. This is almost never the case. To do this a satellite needs a beam width of about 16 degrees, which is simply inefficient (about +23 dB). Most geosynch comsats run around +30 dB antennas or so, though there are a few (mostly satellite telephone applications) that do in fact cover a good chunk of the Earth's surface.

If we ignore this and look for where it could be pointed, it's fairly straightforward to compute that, given Abbottabad's location (73 degrees East) and antenna pointing almost true west (assume 0 degrees for now), this intersects a geosynchronous position hovering over about 13 degrees West. There are a number of satellites in that location, some of which are military comm sats (well, duh, it is over the Atlantic), and some are quite mundane.

I think it's pretty clear, however, that Usama simply had satellite TV. It's hardly rare among the wealthy in that part of the world. The dish itself is quite unremarkable with respect to size, placement, feedhorn, or anything else. This is just another made-up mystery. One may as well speculate the walls outside his compound were actually the trillions of dollars of gold stolen from the WTC, cuz', you know, nobody would actually build walls like that. :tinfoil
 
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What I am looking for is a Truther to say something new and insightful.


This statement is utter hoghwash, because Mackey is the self-proclaimed judge on what is "new and insightful" and nothing will ever meet this "challenge" - it's "testable" only by him. Notice how he doesn't participate in the Pieczenik thread or especially in femr2's thread (ok, two shallow appeals to authority) where there's data and testiblility as much as you could ask for.

The man stands there with his sciency pants down. Enjoy the funeral.
 
This statement is utter hoghwash, because Mackey is the self-proclaimed judge on what is "new and insightful" and nothing will ever meet this "challenge" - it's "testable" only by him.

In the absence of anything offered to test, what difference does it make? As long as you refuse to offer anything, then you guarantee failure whatever the test, so complaining about the details of the test is quite irrelevant. I suggest, as I did to another truther recently, that you either **** or get off the pan.

Dave
 
Ah, at least you concede that it was done before. Go ask Mackey if his challenge would be met and the timer stopped if I tell you my working hypothesis. ...

Do you claim it would be new? Because earlier you seem to have said that you posted yout theory before. Now which is it - do you already have an old theory, or would a theory by you be new?
 

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