The Truth Movement: Finally, Lost in Space

If you Google the story above, we find that despite the fresh date on the webpage, the "interview" with Dr. Pieczenik (Peacenik?? Nom de plume?) took place in 2002.

This is a singularly good example of negative progress in the Truth Movement. Even the "top insider" seems to have moved on, but the nuts haven't.
 
Some of the interview was new.
He also says Saddam Hussein is also alive and that Bin Laden was on the payroll of many, including the British and the Mossad! LOL!
EDIT:
Seems he also made crackpot comments in 2009 on the Steve Quayle show about the "upcoming revolution" and "the swine flu scam".
 
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There being nothing new from the Truth Movement is itself not new, as the OP pointed out.

.....
Respectfully,
Myriad

Bravo, well said! There is definitely a sense of closure with the termination of OBL by US Special Ops.

IMO it is not insignificant that this comes under the Presidency of Barack Obama, whose character is arguably much better suited to the job than was that of his predecessor. Add to this the fact that President Obama could not possibly have been involved in any conceivable 9/11 'False Flag' effort, he is sufficiently removed from the controversies that the public will find it easy to place trust in him.

It will be interesting to monitor the activities of Gage, DRG, Jones, Harrit et al. going forward to see how this affects them.
 
So I guess I am one of those long time mythical lurkers that I've read about in many a post on here. Unfortunately for the "truthers", I do not side with them.

I felt with the recent events that finally some of this conspiracy nonsense would be put to bed. However, as I've come to find out over the past few days, a large portion of them have jumped all over the death of Bin Laden and are already in overdrive applying their spins.

On NPR here the other day, a man actually called in and said he thought the timing of this event was nothing more than a US ploy to "one up" the British Royal Wedding....really...he included the typical OBL has been dead for nearly a decade drivel. Thankfully the newscasters didn't appease him with a response or even discussion and went immediately to the next caller. If you can't get NPR on your side...

As for the "death" of the Truth Movement, I noticed Ryan Mackey's last post showing Dr. Steve Pieczenik's remarks being old...unfortunately, and I know anything from Alex Jones is ludicrous, but this man was on his show again 3 days ago. The video is up on youtube and has 501,000 views...while the background of this man is questionable...the fact he's claiming a top general (hearsay) told him 911 was an inside job, I wonder if this constitutes what Ryan is looking for to reset the timer. I assume a "whistleblower" constitutes as new evidence. But I'm hoping said "whistleblower" actually has to be "in the know" and not speculating based on hearsay.

I'm certain that we'll hear the same old arguments regurgitated over the coming weeks time and time again, but unfortunately Alex Jones has quite the following now, and this recent interview many of them are throwing around as a "smoking gun". Despite the fact the man has no direct knowledge, only hearsay, and I wouldn't be surprised if our old pall Stubblebine is his "source".

Anyways, I wanted to say I've enjoyed reading the debates here the last few years. I hope we can move forward now that some semblence of justice has been served. I too would have liked for him to rot in a prison somewhere, though I understand the ramifications that would entail.

Waiting patiently to see what comes from the usual suspects in response...Dylan Avery, Jason Bermas, Richard Gage, Steven Jones and David Ray Griffin....were are ya?
 
Have you realized that the bicycle you bought eight years ago isn't new anyhmore?

I don't own a bicycle.

I didn't realize an 8 year old link with information that no one's done anything constructive with for 8 years counts as forward progress. :rolleyes:

Progress isn't the issue. Many government officials in various capacities believe that the government was involved in 9/11. That's the point.
 
Progress isn't the issue. Many government officials in various capacities believe that the government was involved in 9/11. That's the point.

1. Yes, progress is the issue. Reread the original post. That's specifically the issue.
2. You really, really need to read that link Ryan gave you. Trying to peddle those testimonies as legitimately supporting the truth movement is showing ignorance of the people and what was being said. I gave the specific example of Mary Schiavo in that thread back in 2007:
Wait... do some of these folks know they're listed on that site? I know, for example, Mary Schiavo has been fiercely critical of the FAA and the general state of airline security in general, but I've never gotten the sense that she's any more than Let-It-Happen-By-Accident (or Negligence).
... and if you had actually read her original comments, you'd know Miller's attempt to paint her as truther sympathetic is a complete distortion of what she thinks.


Like I sad back then:
Oh, Christ!... Conflating legitimate, genuine, reason based criticism with fantastic, conspiracy-laden claims is a ridiculous intellectual stance to take.

Someone needs to put up an honest disclaimer for them: "These people are listed to make our more riduculous claims look legitimate".
2007. You are 3 years behind us, about 8 years behind on the original claims. This is exactly what Ryan was talking about when he wrote "What I expect to find, however, is that there is truly nothing going on in the Truth Movement, it's all been said before, they're happy in their squalid little trench, and that the sixty days will expire without a single iota of progress. If this is the case, I trust you will agree that it's as dead as any "movement" could possibly be." You just helped validate his prediction for him.
 
In an unrelated irony, it also bears mention that Dr. Steven Jones, perhaps the closest the Truth Movement ever had to a legitimate scientist, continues to embarrass himself with reckless abandon at almost the same moment.

Man, that linked page is a treasure trove of pure distilled crazy. Some of my favorites (many from other speakers, not just Stephen Jones):

Excerpts will include new Vector Symbology discoveries and awe-inspiring color photographs of the Moon revealing giant structures and mountains that appear to be made of solid gold, along with images of huge statues and more.

...have launched a Global Expose of the Council on Foreign Relations (CFR), use of the CIA and their Agents Provocateurs to reduce the population of the planet by 90%. The Gunderson/Hilder team through AirCrap.org are exposing Evergreen and other CIA Apparatchiks involved in the Aerosol attack upon all mankind and every living thing on the Planet Earth. The convention will hear their Expose of HAARP, which is the latest & largest weapon of mass destruction since the creation of the Hydrogen Bomb.

It provides practical information and advice for self healing, and in June, 2001, three months before the terrorist attacks of 9/11, Dr. Horowitz released the prophetically-titled critically-acclaimed book, Death in the Air: Globalism, Terrorism and Toxic Warfare. This book summarized the leading global industrialists' efforts to enslave humanity through toxicity and petrochemical/pharmaceutical malfeasance.

In this presentation, they share their research into what happened in the Gulf Oil catastrophe, who was really responsible, their experience working with Jesse Ventura on TruTV's "Conspiracy Theory" segment covering the crisis, and why sabotage implicates BP, the Bush/Cheney/Halliburton cartel and Wall Street's leading investment bankers at "Government Sachs." They follow the money to the Rothschild League of bankers, and the Illuminati's New World Order and depopulation agenda that features petrochemical pollution and biological intoxications.

As the planet is experiencing more and more large-scale "tectonic" events, especially of late with devastation to both Haiti and Japan, he will also ask the audience to consider clear evidence for the existence and testing of earthquake-inducing devices. Finally, he will present his latest research into clean, "free" energy, which would permit formation of energy-independent homes and communities.

In addition to listing and describing these various crimes against humanity, Doc will share startling revelations on how the Illuminati communicate their diabolical plans to one another, often utilizing materials that are open and available to the public, including, but not exclusive to, our own currency...

Doc will give the audience a peek into tomorrow and what is being planned for humanity now. That, including the hysteria surrounding 2012, may include what could best be described as a massive staged-UFO event on a grand scale, which was also pre-encoded in materials meant for public consumption.

Evidence from Gakona, Alaska and Japan provides the evidence that HAARP was used to trigger the Fukushima earthquake, followed by computer sabotage of the emergency cooling systems by the Stuxnet virus. The HAARP signature on the controlled pathway of the radioactive plume targeting the west coast of North America and Hawaii exposes the economic interests behind yet another and extreme example of disaster capitalism.

Enter the giant new field of Synthetic Biology. Its components are invisible, but its power and potential are already in view. Engineered elements of pseudo-biology will work together to repair life as we know it, replacing that which is failing with that which will be stronger and more resilient. "Nature" will be rescued and full of technological marvels. Mankind will be morphed from mere Homo sapien to the high-performance Homo evolutis.

Considered one of the world's foremost metaphysical leaders and a gifted Hyperspace Intuitive, Stewart A. Swerdlow has the ability to see auric fields and personal archetypes as well as read DNA sequences and mind-patterns...

Stewart is an expert in deprogramming and determining which Illuminati programs are embedded in the mind-patterns of any individual...

Humankind is completely programmed, both mentally and genetically. This must be undone immediately so that the True Nature of the God-Mind Within is revealed and projected throughout the World. The plans of the Illuminati can be undermined. There may be another invasion coming. A Real One forming in the Kuiper Belt and in Antarctica. Surprises will be revealed in the next year or two.

What a convention! If I lived in California, had a free weekend and a couple hundred extra bucks, I'd love to go just to see it first-hand. Imagine a convention where Jones and Gage are the sanest of all the presenters!
 
Ae911Truth is soon to surpass the 1.5 Juggernaut mark. Watch for it!

But seriously, this post doesn't make a whole lot of sense, and it seems deliberately misleading. What kind of mind, with any extensive reading about 911 conspiracy theories, could possibly think that a Bin Laden who wasn't "in on it" rules out an "inside job"? It may rule out a complete inside job, but not "inside job" in the sense that a terrorist act was preventable, as the government had a man on the inside, but let the terrorist act proceed. (I.e., a combination of LIHOP and MIHOP).

Not only Mackey, but the other JREF luminaries who have chimed in, in agreement, failed to notice this. This does not, and should not, inspire confidence in anybody for JREF to provide a rational forum for evaluating various Truther claims, or passing judgement on the Truther movement.

Mackey's blatant prejudices and distorted way of thinking is nothing new, and expecting that a 60 day timer represents a hope that he might evolve to a more dispassionate level is engaged in a fool's errand.

While I'm not claiming that JREF's 911 sub forum doesn't have any redeeming social value, I would say that serious skeptics would do well to also read the911forum.freeforums.org, as well as 911blogger. While 911blogger does practice some censorship, it still allows for serious disagreements to be rationally argued.


I hope that Truther lurkers will acquaint themselves with Dr. Denis Rancourt's* ideas about "knowledge not being power", in terms of activism. The efforts of 911 Truthers to achieve accountability shows clearly both the systemic corruption and dysfunction of the US government, and also how merely disseminating information that makes that corruption and dysfunction painfully clear, doesn't, by itself, change anything.

This is no different from the experience of activists and "consciousness raisers" who work in other venues (with some exceptions that don't threaten the main power centers, that I'm not going to get into). Aside from rare birds like Rancourt, activists generally don't even ask themselves the sort of questions that might inform them of the limitations of their activism and search for accountability. Not good. Not smart.

The 911 Truth Movement has made no significant difference in the integrity of the US government, which OF COURSE is a constraining factor on it's (i.e., the government's) ability to root out treachery within it's ranks against the public. A priori, that was the likeliest outcome all along, given the analogies with other movements, such as the peace movement.

I also suggest that lurkers read up on the "veal pen" at firedoglake. The veal pen writings show how the lack of integrity within the US government goes beyond having a compliant, corrupted media as an 'accomplice'. Indeed, just to take one eye-opening example, the backstabbing deal between Obama and Billy Tauzin was reported in the NY Times. Yet, when I asked coworkers, about a year ago, who were arguing about the new Healthcare law (with people on both sides, uttering recognizable Dem and Repub talking points), what they thought about Obama's backstabbing deal, nobody even know who Tauzin was.

There are reasons for such ignorance, which allows the screwing of the US public to continue, unabated. And part of the answer is the "veal pen", which are (progressive) NGO's which fail in their avowed goals with great reliability, as the financial screws are turned, in conformity with the desires of the prevailing powers within the government.

We are far, far from 911 accountability - farther than we are from financial accountability and healthcare accountability. Serious 911 Truthers will have to start thinking about political organization sufficient to reverse systemic corruption. The one 911 myth that I would have hoped everybody would have grasped, by now, is that 911 Truth challenges and findings are some sort of Rosetta stone. Hopefully, the by-now perceived absurdity of this proposition will inspire 911 Truthers to engage the political process aggressively as well as patiently and strategically. IMO, they really have no other viable option.


* Rancourt is also a 911 Truther, and his essay Why we love to hate conspiracy theories: 911 Truth as threat to the intelligentsia is well worth reading.
 
Ae911Truth is soon to surpass the 1.5 Juggernaut mark. Watch for it! ...

* Rancourt is also a 911 Truther, and his essay Why we love to hate conspiracy theories: 911 Truth as threat to the intelligentsia is well worth reading.

I'm sorry, I started to read it, but in the very first paragraph...

"Is it so difficult to believe that the complex and highly successful military attack on US soil that was 911 (levelling three gigantic sky scrapers, blasting a hole into the Pentagon, and destroying four commercial jets and their passengers) was not orchestrated by a religious zealot from a cave in Afghanistan and executed by failed Cessna pilot trainees with box cutters? Or that those who measurably benefited in the trillions had nothing to do with it?"

...he lost all credibility. This "cave dweller" notion is ludicrous. OBL and Al'qaida had free reign in Afghanistan. To suggest they were living in caves borders racism IMO. The "boxcutter" argument is just as ridiculous, prior to 911 you were allowed to carry a 4 inch blade on flights. That coupled with the Cleveland Air Traffic recordings of "we have a bomb..." paints an entirely different picture.

I'm sorry, logic dictates to me, that a conspiracy that stretches throughout the Administration, the FAA, the Military, FEMA, et al...would have a whistleblower by now. Everything can't be faked without some papertrail or someone with a conscience. So many things happened that day, a conspiracy about each, yet I've never seen one coherent theory that encompassed all the days events from the "Truth Movement".

I'm sure that would serve as "something new" for the movement. It's never done this.
 
...he lost all credibility. This "cave dweller" notion is ludicrous. OBL and Al'qaida had free reign in Afghanistan. To suggest they were living in caves borders racism IMO.
Especially when the US just found him in a mansion.

I'm sorry, logic dictates to me, that a conspiracy that stretches throughout the Administration, the FAA, the Military, FEMA, et al...would have a whistleblower by now. Everything can't be faked without some papertrail or someone with a conscience. So many things happened that day, a conspiracy about each, yet I've never seen one coherent theory that encompassed all the days events from the "Truth Movement".
Yep. You'd need hundreds if not thousands of people to pull this off. No one has the manpower to suppress or convince that many people to hide wholesale murder for any length of time, especially when many of those people would be firefights, cops, military, CIA, FBI - y'know, people who have dedicated their lives to helping the public. If it turned out, against all logic, that it was suppressed, I will openly admit I was wrong. And then I would likely seek the most expedient way to kill myself, because I wouldn't want to live in a world where that many of those people would become accessories to terrorism.
 
Not only Mackey, but the other JREF luminaries who have chimed in, in agreement, failed to notice this. This does not, and should not, inspire confidence in anybody for JREF to provide a rational forum for evaluating various Truther claims, or passing judgement on the Truther movement.
Unnamed multitudes.

While I'm not claiming that JREF's 911 sub forum doesn't have any redeeming social value, I would say that serious skeptics would do well to also read the911forum.freeforums.org, as well as 911blogger. While 911blogger does practice some censorship, it still allows for serious disagreements to be rationally argued.
I agree. People should read the Truther forums to see how nutty they are. Such as this thread. Or this one.

I hope that Truther lurkers will acquaint themselves with Dr. Denis Rancourt's* ideas about "knowledge not being power", in terms of activism. The efforts of 911 Truthers to achieve accountability shows clearly both the systemic corruption and dysfunction of the US government, and also how merely disseminating information that makes that corruption and dysfunction painfully clear, doesn't, by itself, change anything.
Alternate explanation: they think you're a bunch of nutjobs.

The 911 Truth Movement has made no significant difference in the integrity of the US government, which OF COURSE is a constraining factor on it's (i.e., the government's) ability to root out treachery within it's ranks against the public. A priori, that was the likeliest outcome all along, given the analogies with other movements, such as the peace movement.
Gratuitous Latin. Nice.

I also suggest that lurkers read up on the "veal pen" at firedoglake. The veal pen writings show how the lack of integrity within the US government goes beyond having a compliant, corrupted media as an 'accomplice'. Indeed, just to take one eye-opening example, the backstabbing deal between Obama and Billy Tauzin was reported in the NY Times. Yet, when I asked coworkers, about a year ago, who were arguing about the new Healthcare law (with people on both sides, uttering recognizable Dem and Repub talking points), what they thought about Obama's backstabbing deal, nobody even know who Tauzin was.
"Sheeep! They're all sheep because they don't care about the same things I do!"

There are reasons for such ignorance, which allows the screwing of the US public to continue, unabated. And part of the answer is the "veal pen", which are (progressive) NGO's which fail in their avowed goals with great reliability, as the financial screws are turned, in conformity with the desires of the prevailing powers within the government.
What?

We are far, far from 911 accountability - farther than we are from financial accountability and healthcare accountability. Serious 911 Truthers will have to start thinking about political organization sufficient to reverse systemic corruption. The one 911 myth that I would have hoped everybody would have grasped, by now, is that 911 Truth challenges and findings are some sort of Rosetta stone. Hopefully, the by-now perceived absurdity of this proposition will inspire 911 Truthers to engage the political process aggressively as well as patiently and strategically. IMO, they really have no other viable option.
"Words, words, words."
 
Here's another data point on the death rattles. A couple years ago, the Troofers instituted a campaign where everybody was supposed to do some sort of "Truth Action" (leafleting, handing out DVDs, etc.) on the 11th day of every month "until justice". As activism goes, it actually wasn't a bad idea: an easily remembered date, once a month so it didn't require a lot of work, and the leaflets and DVDs are pretty easy and cheap to come by.

And at first it was pretty successful. Lots of groups did their monthly actions and sent in photos and DVDs to this site. But things have fizzled out quicker than a thermite match; there was only one action posted for both January and February 2001 (both by Truth Action Ottawa) and then a query posted on March 28, which has gone unanswered:

Hi all

I'm not trying to start a flame war or anything. I'm just curious to know what happened to the 11th of Every Month campaign. We here in Ottawa have still been going out every month, but lately it looks like we're alone.

Has the campaign come to an end? Are there plans on restarting it?

Just looking for information since I haven't seen anything posted here about it.

Hoping everyone is doing well

- Mark in Ottawa
 
Mr Mackey,

I think that it is way to early to predict the demise of ae911truth and our CD theory. Certainly the killing of Bin Laden is a serious blow to the ae911truth movement. So is the discussion about releasing the photographs, because it explores the issue of rational debate and beliefs.

Certainly now is an uncomfortable time for us with too much sanity and respectful debate. As you know ae911truth thrives on doubt and suspicion. But all we need is a few succesful terrorist attacks, or even a natural disaster and we will get back to everyone blaming everyone else, particularly if we can blame the government.

Then we will get back to business. And then we can explore some serious issues like..
- a seals attack on George Bush's ranch
- evidence of collaboration and plotting with the Bush regime on Osama's computers. ( I am sure he must of kept some notes )
 
Tom, you may want to dial it back a skosh. Too obvious.

For the rest of y'all Truthers, you're proving my point brilliantly. It's a simple question. The more you respond with insult (of me, of the JREF, of the rest of the world, whatever) or increasingly elaborate excuses why you can't respond, the more obvious it becomes.

Clock's ticking.
 

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