The Truth Movement: Finally, Lost in Space

[tempesta29]

And I'm sure you could find some quotes about the virtues of leeches in healing the sick.

How is this relevant?

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Is this why the crowds celebrating UBL's death, along with pretty much every other conceivable rally, such as the anti-war protests in Europe drawf even the most populous truth movement rallies exponentially?

 

[R.Mackey]

First, it takes a massive arrogance to call someone's English dodgy because they aren't familiar with the esoteric term for beekeeper.

If you can find the word "bedunker" in a proper English dictionary -- any dictionary -- I'll concede the point. Until then, hush up and pay attention.

Second, this calling out of "failure" by people of your ilk is a sad attempt to turn life into a football game. It isn't. Any lack of penetration that this information has had can be blamed, not on us, but on people such as yourself. You've believed in a lie. That's nobody's fault but yours. It isn't up to the rest of us to make you believe something one way or another.

Curious, because that's all you've attempted to do for the last ten years.

In fact, considering the number of people who believe in a 9/11 cover up, I contend that you've failed. With so many resources in every facet at your disposal, there are still a huge number of people in the US and Europe who call BS on the official story.

More people believe in ghosts, UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, Young Earth Creationism, and Santa Claus than believe in 9/11 Truth.

If you call that a victory, then that's your prerogative. You seem to act as if people who post on the internet work full time for The 9/11 Truth Movement Inc. or some odd thing. They are simply people who disagree with you. Get over yourself.

Actually the above is literally true of Richard Gage. The rest of you probably would if you could, but you lack his entrepreneurial flair...

Anyway, here we have yet another post hassling me, rather than trying to answer my very, very simple question. Enjoy your slide into utter irrelevance -- you're contributing to it.

 

[tempesta29]

Curious, because that's all you've attempted to do for the last ten years.

I don't believe you know me. If you're attempting to lump me into a group, that's none of my business.

More people believe in ghosts, UFOs, the Loch Ness Monster, Young Earth Creationism, and Santa Claus than believe in 9/11 Truth.

Combined?

I'd also like to point out that most parents knowingly deceive their children by telling them Santa Claus is real. Let me also point out that people who believe in Santa Claus are CHILDREN, and the fact that you've cited them at all is hilarious.

Also, all of those beliefs are far older than 9/11 itself. The JFK assassination is still a relatively hot topic almost 50 years later. Many people believed in a conspiracy back in the 60s. Today, a majority do.

In other words you have no point here.

Actually the above is literally true of Richard Gage. The rest of you probably would if you could, but you lack his entrepreneurial flair...

Zzz...

Anyway, here we have yet another post hassling me, rather than trying to answer my very, very simple question. Enjoy your slide into utter irrelevance -- you're contributing to it.

You posted, and I responded.

 

[TJM]

I'd also like to point out that most parents knowingly deceive their children by telling them Santa Claus is real. Let me also point out that people who believe in Santa Claus are CHILDREN, and the fact that you've cited them at all is hilarious.

*wooOOOooosh*

 

[Myriad]

I think that if the question were limited to adults, and kept straightforward, as in:

1. 9/11 was a U.S. Government inside job (agree/disagree)
2. Santa Claus is a literal real person or being (agree/disagree)

...then number 1 will probably get more "agree" responses than #2, though it will be close (and both "agree" rates would be very low).

But the poll questions are never written that straightforwardly, are they? Following Truther poll style, they would be more like this:

1. The U.S. Government has not told the American public the entire truth about the events of 9/11 (agree/disagree)
2. I have met Santa Claus and/or received gifts or greeting cards from Santa Claus on or around Christmastime (agree/disagree)

...and in that case I think both questions would get very high "agree" rates, with #2's being higher. Which Truthers would interpret as meaning that most people think 9/11 was an inside job, and that most people think Santa Claus is like totally real.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[Grizzly Bear]

Are you asking if dumbed down, warmongers who celebrate death outnumber people who think critically? I agree: they do.

I guess what I'm saying is people who actually took their position seriously managed to spontaneously gather in major city centers without any prior organization or planning in numbers far exceeding even the most coordinated truth movement protests, whether it was "war mongering" as you charge it with, or not. The truth movement has alleged the commitment of mass murder with the US government at the center of all of it, and the most they have accomplished is a few tens of people at any given of their rallies.

Have you seen the Egypt protests?

Have you seen Syria lately?

What about Yemen?

Tunesia?

Iran?

They each had ruthless governments, and they were able to gather enough people to pose at least a serious challenge to their status quo. I think if the truth movement has the support it claims to have getting numbers to participate actively would be the easiest part of all. The facts about what motivated those people to unite are pretty much non-debatable...


If you still don't understand my point, put it this way:

The largest protests I've probably seen by far in person are the ones for the Free Trade Area of the Americas Agreement circa 2003 in Miami. A large enough series crowds that they actually relocated students at my high school, along with several others downtown to their home schools because of the heavy interference with public transit.

I've also seen some pretty small protests as well, more recently circa 2009-2010 I've seen the local tea party groups doing the organized protests.

The latter were pretty small gatherings, yet both the FTAA and Teaparty gatherings far exceed the numbers of any organized truth movement protest I've ever seen in the last 10 years (that would be "zero"), not in downtown, not on my university campus (which I know full well has groups of 9/11 conspiracy believers by the fact that Zeitgeist and the Obama Deception movies have been shown), not even on the anniversaries, 5 years of which I've attended the remembrance events on campus to see personally.

Seriously not trying to be rude, but the results I think speak for themselves

 

[CHF]

Y'all Truthers should be embarrassed. If you ever look back at the last ten years (or whatever) and wonder why you failed so horribly, this is why. You just aren't doing anything at all.

I've always gotten the impression that the TM consists largely of people sitting around, doing nothing, waiting for someone else to make the big breakthrough.

Granted, this is true of most movements - a small number do the grunt work, and the rest ride on the coat-tails.

But at this point in TM history no one is doing anything. Not even the supposed "leaders" and "experts."

Even Mr. Thermite himself, Steven Jones, has apparently moved on to man-made earthquakes. If his indifference were any more obvious even truthers would notice it.

But the die-hard followers have no choice but to carry on. They've built their entire lives around this nonsense. It's who they are.

 

[tempesta29]

I guess I'll opt out of this thread at this point. I'm not concerned with how other people perceive a "movement" to be performing. As much as people such as yourself and the OP would like to generalize people who share the same belief as being a "team" that can win or lose or be ridiculed for poor performance, that isn't based in reality. Obviously people who hold beliefs they are passionate about will gravitate to one another, but this isn't a football game.

 

[CHF]

The truth movement has alleged the commitment of mass murder with the US government at the center of all of it, and the most they have accomplished is a few tens of people at any given of their rallies.

There are two options when it comes to the TM's inability to muster crowds as big as those found at, say, a 3-year-old`s birthday party.

1) they simply don't have the popular support that they think they do.

2) Truthers are the laziest movement in history.

I mean that literally - the laziest movement in all of recorded history.

They claim to have proof of a world-wide conspiracy to stage attacks and ultimately enslave the world in a global police state, and the most they can rouse themselves to do about it is post crap on message boards and listen to Alex Jones. That’s it. That’s their resistance.

Show me a lazier group of revolutionaries than these sad people.

 

[Myriad]

Obviously people who hold beliefs they are passionate about will gravitate to one another, but this isn't a football game.

I should say not! A football game has a clock and referees and a score, so a football game comes to a clear conclusion, at which point someone has won and someone has lost.

Those are all conditions that the Truther "team" has learned to avoid at all costs. Why risk taking the field and losing, when you can stand on the sidelines and yell about how all the players on the field aren't as good as you, forever?

You have the real world and fantasy mixed up. In the real world, you do win and lose. You go to court and the judge rules for you or against you. You write a paper or a book and it's either accepted or rejected for publication. You go into business and you make a profit or lose your investment. You go to school and you either pass or fail. You propose legislation and it's voted in, voted out, or never brought to the floor. You run for office and you either get elected or you don't. You apply for a job and you either get it or you don't. You buy stock and it either goes up or it goes down. You knock on a door and either sell any of your Girl Scout cookies or not. You get sick and you either survive or you die. That's reality.

Not everything has to be about winning or losing, of course. There's nothing wrong with throwing a football around just for fun, for instance. But as soon as you start boasting about how much better you can play football than someone else, expect to be asked to play a game or shut up. If you start boasting about how you've done better quality analysis of an event than the published papers on a subject, expect to be asked to publish that work or shut up. If you start boasting about how much public support you have for a cause, expect to be asked to use that support to advance the cause, or shut up.

That's only in the real world though. On this forum, telling someone to shut up is against the rules.

So you're safe and you can just keep arguing instead.

Forever.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[CHF]

LOL at someone belittling others for posting on message boards--by posting on message boards.

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a point fly so high over someone’s head before.

There’s nothing wrong with posting on the internet, but for most movements/groups that’s only part of their approach. For you guys it appears to be all you have.

Think of it this way: imagine if the protesters in Egypt did nothing besides post on the web. Imagine they had message boards full of people opposed to Mubarak, complaining about how much they want him gone, showcasing evidence of the regime’s crimes….

And that’s it. That’s all they do. The message boards are full but Tahrir Square is empty.

That’s you guys.

What this ultimately comes down to is this: what do you want to do with this amazing evidence of yours?

Do you plan on just sitting around feeling good about yourself, confident that you know the truth? If so, then there’s no need to alter your existing game plan and I hope it adds happiness and meaning to your life in the same way that religion does for others.

But if you hope to one day achieve something in the real world, and bring the 9/11 perps to justice, then at some point you need to get serious about this.

 

[tempesta29]

I don’t think I’ve ever seen a point fly so high over someone’s head before.

There’s nothing wrong with posting on the internet, but for most movements/groups that’s only part of their approach. For you guys it appears to be all you have.

Think of it this way: imagine if the protesters in Egypt did nothing besides post on the web. Imagine they had message boards full of people opposed to Mubarak, complaining about how much they want him gone, showcasing evidence of the regime’s crimes….

And that’s it. That’s all they do. The message boards are full but Tahrir Square is empty.

That’s you guys.

What this ultimately comes down to is this: what do you want to do with this amazing evidence of yours?

Do you plan on just sitting around feeling good about yourself, confident that you know the truth? If so, then there’s no need to alter your existing game plan and I hope it adds happiness and meaning to your life in the same way that religion does for others.

But if you hope to one day achieve something in the real world, and bring the 9/11 perps to justice, then at some point you need to get serious about this.

Yet here you are: clearly so perturbed by this failure of a movement that you've come here to criticize it. So no, your point isn't over my head: I just think you have no point.

If people are unwilling to listen, then no amount of volume will change that.

 

[CHF]

What's a "serious researcher" exactly?

Someone who makes an honest attempt to engage in the peer-review process, for example.

Nine years in and you have NO such person.

 

[CHF]

If people are unwilling to listen, then no amount of volume will change that.

But they are willing to listen.

The willingness to listen is what supposedly clued in so many people to the “truth” about 9/11. They listened to your message and were convinced.

Truthers constantly tell us about these people: the thousands of experts at AE911, the millions of average folks around the world.

So where are these people I always hear about? Why is it proving to be so difficult to get a large number of them together in one place?

 

[Myriad]

After four pages there's a risk of losing focus on the question, a problem that I've probably contributed to.

No one's asking for "proof of an inside job" in a single statement, or anything close to that difficult. (And maybe some are tripping up trying too hard to reach that bar, striking out swinging for the fences when all that's required is a well placed bunt.)

The challenge is this (emphasis added):

What I envision is something similar for the Truth Movement. Let's say we give it, oh, sixty days from right now to say something insightful. It could be anything. It could be a new result or uncovering new evidence. It could be a well-formed hypothesis. It could be acknowledgement of some established but long-resisted fact, demonstrating that the Truth Movement still has some capability to learn or reason. It could even be "Just Asking a Question," provided the question is well-considered and sparks some thought to answer. Any one of these, I'll give it my personal thumbs-up and reset the timer.

Respectfully,
Myriad

 

[dc1971]

In fact, considering the number of people who believe in a 9/11 cover up...

I will stop you right there. That does not matter. Trying to back up your claims with popular support does not work. You just said it - this is not a football game, and you're right. A football team requires a "number of people who believe" that their team is going to win the game. This is not about belief. There are hard facts and evidence that support the many unfortunate events that occurred on Sept. 11, 2001.

The popularity argument is old and tired. Give it up!

 

[Oystein]

Meaning what? Are you implying that all of the other architects and engineers in the US have been exposed to this information and disagree with it?

If they haven't been exposed to it, then surely Gage hasn't done his job, and the matter is of exceedingly little interest to the professionals.

We found the other day that among the thousands of licensed structural and civil engineers in freaking New York itself, precisely one (1) signed the petition; this one New Yorker is over 70 and retired. Here is his personal statement:

My first doubts about the official story began when I read the heavily documented "The War on Freedom" by Nafeez Massadaq Ahmed, listing all the public records of warnings to the US government. I was especially alarmed by the fact that standard operating procedure to dispatch fighter planes against a high-jacked plane had been violated. The technical evidence presented since then certainly warrants a full and honest investigation. I know several people in NYC were trying to initiate a suit to open such an investigation in the spring of '07, but have heard no more about their effort.

No mention of engineering as a reason to sign as an engineer - his reasons are purely political.
The last sentence is revealing and on-topic to this thread: Nothing new in this man's view since 2007.

You really ought to ask yourself: Has the TM ignored those engineers that have potentially the highest interest and impact - the civil and structural engineers from New York? Or has the TM totally failed to convince these engineers? Either way, it makes the TM look like ten years of utter failure.

 

[dc1971]

And yet nearly everyone does, and there's not a scrap of publication that disputes it in the entire world.

I love it when Truthers refer to everyone outside their little cult (i.e. the rest of the world) as people who are "desperate"!!

 

[TexasJack]

I think that since the timer started, which basically coincided with Bin Laden's death, there has been a higher level of frustration than normal from truthers in their posts. As you will notice, instead of bringing up anything new, they revert to the old predictable plays that only require a Pop Warner defense to defend.

It seems since Bin Laden's death was announced, it feels like they have lost their imaginary child (oh I'm sure some will claim that Bin Laden is imaginary also), in much the same way as the movie and play "Who's Afraid of Virginia Woolf." Obama has killed off their imaginary child, and truthers have nothing left to say but "why, why did you have to kill him?"

The truthers will continue their impotence on internet forums, but any consideration of a serious re-investigation was buried at sea.