Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Onofarar said:
I believe Chris (halides1) posted Conti's resume upthread it was VERY impressive. It ran to several pages with numerous papers on forensics and related matters.
These guys are definitely NOT untenured Home Ec assistant professors from a Rome community college. :D
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I'm having trouble finding it. Maybe halides1 or someone else could re-post?
 
Withnail1969 said:
I'm starting to get a bad feeling about Hellman. Why on Earth would he not want these scientists to find out the truth?
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I have more faith in Vecchiotti and Conti than Hellman. Therefore, I trust that if they don't need to look under the handle then it's for a good reason, especially if the DNA on the blade is found to be nothing.
 
Actually IMO, regardless of the outcome of the new testing, until those dna files are released from the original testing none of the testing whether its pro knox or not should be accepted in court. The very first thing that should happen is the dna files be released to the defense. Has anyone heard if thats happened or not? Because without releasing them, the prosecution is declaring they have something to hide. If they had released them to the defense, new testing might not even be required. If they have released them, then yes lets continue with the testing. If they haven't been released then none of the original testing is good and the case should be dropped.
 
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Justinian2 said:
So, you believe that priests are guilty of sex crimes, but that the Italian police or forensic technicians cannot for a moment ever be guilty of deliberate or incidental contamination?
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I'm not sure how you extrapolate that from what I said. I'm certain that police and forensic technicians all over the world could be guilty of incidental contamination (if the term "incidental contamination" means to you what it means to me).

Exaggerating your beliefs in the honesty of the Italian police a bit would be to believe them worthy of being nominated as saints.
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You seem to be making up my beliefs as it suits you so you can argue against them. I don't know why.
 
The prosecution are again going to put Curatolo in the witness box,in the light of the charges he faces it is a very interesting development,the reason the charges dating back to 2003 are been brought up now are either

a)There is some people inside the Perugian police force and/or the Perugian prosecutorial office who are aware how these innocent defendants are been railroaded and are fighting against it

b)The charges are at the instigation of Mignini and co in a display to Curatolo of their power to force him to cooperate

Which ever it is Mignini is forced to play a very risky game
 
Bruce Fisher said:
Ron did an excellent job of analyzing the bra and clasp. I am now thoroughly convinced the bra was not cut. The thread at the seams of the bra failed due to excessive force. Ron's analysis highlighted, once again, how poorly the crime scene was investigated.
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I don't know much about this Ron Hendry guy, but am I to believe they let this guy into Italy and examine all this evidence first hand, do tests on it and whatever he wanted - I'm having a hard time believing this but is this what you're saying?
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
I don't know much about this Ron Hendry guy, but am I to believe they let this guy into Italy and examine all this evidence first hand, do tests on it and whatever he wanted - I'm having a hard time believing this but is this what you're saying?
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I didn't get the same impression from Bruce's post. I assumed Hendry has come to that conclusion from studying photographs of the bra and clasp.
 
Alt+F4 said:
Why is it perfectly understandable for AK and RS to be confused and "misremember" stuff but it's not acceptable for anyone else in this case to do the same?
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Because Curato is not going to jail for a quarter century for not remembering stuff right. If Curato isn't credible nothing much happens to him. If Knox/Sollecito are considered not credible their possibility of a productive life is taken away from them.
 
Malkmus said:
I didn't get the same impression from Bruce's post. I assumed Hendry has come to that conclusion from studying photographs of the bra and clasp.
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Then how is it someone can come to these conclusions that are so more believible than the experts that actuall held the items in their hands, examined them under microscopes and so forth, it baffels the mind.
 
Bruce Fisher said:
Ron did an excellent job of analyzing the bra and clasp. I am now thoroughly convinced the bra was not cut. The thread at the seams of the bra failed due to excessive force. Ron's analysis highlighted, once again, how poorly the crime scene was investigated.
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Must admit that I'm not quite convinced on this one. The strap at the back is the strongest part of a bra, where all the support comes from - I think it would be very difficult to tear it. Those things are feats of engineering. If someone tried to tear it (even more difficult if it was being worn at the time) it would most likely just stretch, not tear. It may have been cut, then torn off completely perhaps.
 
Sherlock Holmes said:
Then how is it someone can come to these conclusions that are so more believible than the experts that actuall held the items in their hands, examined them under microscopes and so forth, it baffels the mind.
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No, what baffles the mind is the Scientific Police could some to the conclusions they did and guys like Ron Hendry, John Douglas, Steve Moore and countless others with just basic familiarity with forensic practices can tell just by looking at the pictures they screwed the pooch so badly all of above would become incensed enough to want to do something about it...
 
CDHost said:
In Peterson's case they were able to establish motive. So they have motive + circumstantial evidence. I think everyone agrees motive is very weak in the Kercher homicide so the situation is not quite the same.
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I thought there was blood and hair from Lacy on a pair of pliers found in the boat.
 
katy_did said:
Must admit that I'm not quite convinced on this one. The strap at the back is the strongest part of a bra, where all the support comes from - I think it would be very difficult to tear it. Those things are feats of engineering. If someone tried to tear it (even more difficult if it was being worn at the time) it would most likely just stretch, not tear. It may have been cut, then torn off completely perhaps.
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Like I said in a previous post. If there is no blood in the cut area, then it wasn't cut with a bloody knife. Since they want you to believe her bra was cut off after being stabbed in the neck. Thats a 3rd knife you have to add into the scenario.
 
Chris C said:
Like I said in a previous post. If there is no blood in the cut area, then it wasn't cut with a bloody knife. Since they want you to believe her bra was cut off after being stabbed in the neck. Thats a 3rd knife you have to add into the scenario.
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Yeah, I don't think it was cut with a bloody knife; I think it's more likely that it was cut before the wounds were made. It could well be that the wounds were made in the process of trying to remove her bra after it was cut, perhaps during a struggle.
 
I don't know what to think about today's hearing. Was it good for Amanda and Raffaele? Are things in fact moving forward? What's your opinion guys? I'm not asking about today's rullings, but for your personal opinions on how do you think it will all work out.
 
katy_did said:
Must admit that I'm not quite convinced on this one. The strap at the back is the strongest part of a bra, where all the support comes from - I think it would be very difficult to tear it. Those things are feats of engineering. If someone tried to tear it (even more difficult if it was being worn at the time) it would most likely just stretch, not tear. It may have been cut, then torn off completely perhaps.
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The way the metal hook is bent out of shape looks to me like it was pulled with great force. Or stepped on. Or both.
 
Chris C said:
The walls were covered with tiny blood droplets also. What makes the sexual assault happen after the bra was cut/torn and after her throat was slashed? If her breasts were covered with similar spray, would not that point to the bra's removal before throat slashing. How did it even get spray on it, if the coat was suppose to still be on when her throat was cut. Plus for the sexual assault to happen after Meredith's throat was cut, first she would have had to been on her stomach to cut/break the bra, then she would have been rolled over to take off the bra. Her head would have had to been higher than the bra for blood to rush down onto it. It would have had to been higher more than a few seconds after throat was cut. Plus there is spray on the bra that would suggest the bra was off rather than on. I thought spray shot away from body not towards it. A better scenario was the bra/coat was on the floor beneath her when her throat was cut and later moved for whatever reason.
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Look at the photos here:

http://www.injusticeinperugia.org/Meredith_Kercher_murder_reconstruction_graphic_-_Ron_Hendry.pdf

You can zoom in because the resolution embedded in the pdf is almost as good as the original photos. You can see the small, round blood droplets on the bra. They fell there when she was on her back, with a spray of aspirated blood rising into the air as she struggled to breathe. Her breasts showed the same fine spray. He removed her bra after inflicting the fatal injury and while she was still gasping for breath. He would have had to roll her onto her side momentarily to do that, but he would not have had to roll her onto her stomach.

She was still wearing the jacket when she was killed, but it was unzipped. Hendry thinks he used it to drag her and it came off completely while he was doing so. She was dragged a couple of feet from the spot where she fell to the spot where she was found. Hendry thinks he did that because there was not enough space between the wardrobe and the desk for him to remove her pants, and indeed, the photos show that to be the case.
 
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