Continuation Part 2 - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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billyryan said:
the police collected a knife from Raffaele house took it to the police station,took it out of whatever container it was in rubbed the blade on something belonging to Meredith and the handle on something belonging to Amanda then repackaged it and sent it to Stefanoni to test,
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I'm afraid I don't believe that for a moment.
 
katy_did said:
Would he really have gotten tourists mixed up with young people going clubbing?
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He's an illegal drug user, yes?

Interesting decision by the prosecution to call Curatolo to the stand again. Bit risky, could go either way (like Aviello/Alessi for the defence).
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It might go in favor of the prosecution since not all the discos were closed. Wasn't Rudy seen in a disco that night?
 
Alt+F4 said:
He's an illegal drug user, yes?
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Unknown. Unlike Amanda and Raffaele, who tested negative for all drugs except traces of cannabis, heroin dealer Curatolo has not been tested for drugs.

Alt+F4 said:
It might go in favor of the prosecution since not all the discos were closed. Wasn't Rudy seen in a disco that night?
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Rudy was seen in Domus, a disco in town which does not require disco buses.
 
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Besides the bus issue, does anyone know who the other witnesses are that will be called in March and April?
 
Alt+F4 said:
He's an illegal drug user, yes?
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LOL. I could be completely wrong, but I'm not sure the prosecution will be using that one as a means of establishing Curatolo's reliability. ("Yes Judge, I know his memory's inaccurate, but that's only because he's an illegal drug user who gets easily confused. I see no reason that should affect his credibility as an eyewitness"). :D

It might go in favor of the prosecution since not all the discos were closed. Wasn't Rudy seen in a disco that night?
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Depends on whether those discos ran buses to transport people to the clubs, doesn't it? If they did, then we can expect to see the people who ran those buses testifying for the prosecution. If not, then we can probably assume they didn't.
 
Alt+F4 said:
It could have been buses dropping tourists back in Perugia after day trips in Assisi, Gubbio or other "medieval" towns in Umbria. I'm sure it wouldn't be that hard for someone fluent in Italian to read the bus schedules.

The question then becomes how much do the tourist buses look like the disco buses?
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According to what I read a while back from 'Tom' at PMF who posts here sometimes, the city buses are impossibly large while the disco buses are little shuttle buses.
 
billyryan said:
I think it is pretty simple Matthew Best,the police collected a knife from Raffaele house took it to the police station,took it out of whatever container it was in rubbed the blade on something belonging to Meredith and the handle on something belonging to Amanda then repackaged it and sent it to Stefanoni to test,the blood that would have soaked into the handle if it was involved in a murder,if the outburst of Camodi and the Kerchers lawyer was not just an act,was not taken care of at the time and has not been possible since
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The scenario with the police "rubbing" the knife at the station has a couple of weaknesses.

1. Amanda's DNA could have innocently been on the knife handle already because she used it while cooking in Rafaelle's apartment.

2. A much more subtle way to contaminate the blade with Meredith's DNA would be to do it in the lab where the testing was done. I am not implying this was done, I am just saying that would be a more likely way to go about it.

Does anyone know if Raffaele has ever recanted his story about pricking Meredith's hand with the knife?

Where has the knife been for 3 years, and who has had access to it? Can this question be answered with any degree of certainty?

If the blade and the handle really are fused together, and there really is no gap, why are they now going to take the knife apart? The defense must think there is something to be gained by this request.
 
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Matthew Best said:
I can't quite figure out what their objection would be. It's not as though finding nothing more on the knife is going to prove anybody's innocence (though I agree it would be good news for the defence), but finding more Kercher DNA would be a terrible blow to the defendants - so why would the defence be requesting the tests and the prosecution objecting to them?
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That is a very good point.

I believe I have read comments on this thread that if you stab someone at close range, blood will get into the crack at the end of the handle just where the handle meets the blade, and if you attempt to clean the knife, water, containing blood/dna will settle into the edge of the handle where the blade and handle meet.

This is just my guess though.


It is rather extraordinary that the person accused of using the knife to commit a murder wants the evidence re-examined in greater detail to find if there is additional evidence, and the people accusing her of using the knife 'jump from their chairs' in protest.
 
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komponisto said:
Curatolo will be testifying again, at the request of the prosecution, in order to counter the defense's new witnesses. (!) (Can they really be serious?)
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I am sure he will be well coached when he returns.
My guess - he will admit to confusing the local transit buses with the disco buses. A lot will depend on defense to debunk this testimony and show he is lying - then and/or now.

A lot could ride on this for Toto - like whether the charges against him are pursued or dropped.
 
Matthew Best said:
I'm afraid I don't believe that for a moment.
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So, you believe that priests are guilty of sex crimes, but that the Italian police or forensic technicians cannot for a moment ever be guilty of deliberate or incidental contamination?

Exaggerating your beliefs in the honesty of the Italian police a bit would be to believe them worthy of being nominated as saints.

I think it probable that you can rephrase your statement to be more believable.
 
Withnail1969 said:
It's probably irrelevant for either side. It's a cheap kitchen knife with the plastic handle moulded onto the blade. Nothing's going to get in that gap because there isn't a gap.
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The handle is hard plastic, the blade is springy metal. If the knife is used there will be a gap. It may take a long time for the handle to sufficiently delaminate from the blade and create a visible gap but that gap is going to start forming the first time the knife is used. If the knife is used forcefully, that will open and extend whatever gap is there.

I just checked three knives I have of similar construction and all three have a gap that is visible under low magnification and can be seen to open when the blade is pushed sideways.
 
babycondor said:
The scenario with the police "rubbing" the knife at the station has a couple of weaknesses.
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IIRC Stefanoni claims to have tested the blade at another point and it came up negative for Amanda's DNA.

I have always had questions about the tests on the knife.

First, if Stefanoni had such a small sample to begin with, why test for blood? What difference would it make if the blood test was positive but the dna test was negative?

Second, after finding Meredith's DNA on the blade, why did they not then test every single square millimeter of the blade for more? If the reported find is honest, then, odds are, there's more somewhere else on the blade.

The result of the additional testing would be far more damning, or exculpatory, than the questionable result of Stefanoni's one test.

Perhaps someone can better explain, but for myself, the question of whether the police were honestly looking for the truth, or just contriving some way of hanging the crime on Knox is answered right there.
 
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Matthew Best said:
I can't quite figure out what their objection would be. It's not as though finding nothing more on the knife is going to prove anybody's innocence (though I agree it would be good news for the defence), but finding more Kercher DNA would be a terrible blow to the defendants - so why would the defence be requesting the tests and the prosecution objecting to them?
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I believe Prof Torre testifying for the defense stated that the knife used in the murder was plunged (at least once) to the hilt into Meredith's neck and the force of the blow would have forced some material into the (microscopic?) space between the blade and the handle. The defense has been adamant that the knife should be disassembled ever since. If no DNA is found then the defense will emphasize this in court and if their argument is accepted then the court will have to throw out the knife - it could not be the mrder weapon. So HFCB's work is under a double attack - did she really find Meredith's DNA on the handle and why didn't she disassemble the knife looking for DNA under the handle.
 
Matthew Best said:
I can't quite figure out what their objection would be. It's not as though finding nothing more on the knife is going to prove anybody's innocence (though I agree it would be good news for the defence), but finding more Kercher DNA would be a terrible blow to the defendants - so why would the defence be requesting the tests and the prosecution objecting to them?
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I don't know what it would take to prove the knife was NOT the murder weapon.

It will look good if NO DNA of Meredith's is found and no blood is found. However, the electronic records will have to be reviewed as well.

If blood and DNA are found, then they may have to remain silent or claim contamination. If they claim contamination, will the court believe the claim or pervert the findings to mean that more evidence of Amanda's guilt was found. That would be a sad day for justice for those that believe that she is innocent.

The time to convince the AGVPs (anti guilt verdict people) that she is guilty has long passed.
 
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According to this report, Hellmann decided that the handle will be examined only if Vecchiotti and Conti deem it "absolutely necessary", and a separate request will have to be made later for this.
 
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komponisto said:
According to this report, Hellmann decided that the handle will be examined only if Vecchiotti and Conti deem it "absolutely necessary", and a separate request will have to be made later for this.
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I'm starting to get a bad feeling about Hellman. Why on Earth would he not want these scientists to find out the truth?
 
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