Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

[Chris_Halkides]

repressed memory

You get all that from the word "mediator"? When this kind of thing is done with Amanda's statements people quite rightly complain.

IIRC (sorry, don't have the cite) the mediator suggested that maybe Amanda had repressed the memory of the murder. That is probably from Amanda's account, but I am not certain. That's not translating in my view.

 

[Withnail1969]

I remember them. Some parts of the killing you would clearly have gotten blood on you if you had been at all close by. We don't know who was standing where for what, or what they were wearing if they were wearing anything at all.

Don't forget the killers have to run away from the cottage immediately after Nara Cappezalli's 'scream of death'. Running through Perugia naked and carrying a bloody knife could attract the wrong kind of attention.

 

[shuttlt]

You seem like a reasonable person shuttlt. If Amanda said she didn't do it and the police said she did, what possible middle point could be the result of this mediator's efforts? Would you consider that compromise to be in any way truthful? Can you imagine any situation in her role as police interpreter in an interrogation that this type of mediator role would be an acceptable standard of professionalism or an avenue for the truth?

I can't imagine that what is intended by mediator is in the sense of the role in a negotiation where one helps both sides to come to some middle position, or in the sense of trying to keep the peace between two angry groups. I took it to mean that she was doing more than just sitting there doing simultaneous translation like you see in the UN. There is a language/cultural barrier between the Amanda and the police and she is playing a non-passive role in helping information to pass across that barrier. That seems to me like one perfectly good explanation. I think that looking to the word choice of Amanda, Mignini, the translator, or whoever and trying to drag the key that unlocks the case out of it is a mistake.

Was the original quote that this was taken from even in English? Presumably if it was, it could still be down to imperfect word choice of a fluent, but non-native English speaker. If it was in Italian, then I doubly don't see what we are analysing this for.

 

[Justinian2]

It's stretching the bounds of credibility to imagine they wouldn't scrub every inch of the knife. Personally I would have left the whole knife soaking in bleach for several hours. Then boil it for an hour in a big pan of water. Zero chance of anybody finding anything.

I would have buried the knife. When trash day came, I would have put it in someone else's trash. The last thing I would have done is to take the knife home. Ha! What an absurd idea to take the knife home, kill someone in the home and leave the body in your home.

For the police to come up with the idea of a staged 2nd floor break-in, ... Who would do that? Who would believe that?

That's why the lone wolf scenario makes sense; the body isn't in your home. Guede even made his knife and sneakers disappear - the logical thing to do.

 

[RoseMontague]

IIRC (sorry, don't have the cite) the mediator suggested that maybe Amanda had repressed the memory of the murder. That is probably from Amanda's account, but I am not certain. That's not translating in my view.

Yes, I have seen this as well. Her statement on this mediator thing is nothing short of bizarre. The other cops should not see themselves as mediators either, what their focus should be is determining the truth. The same as the rest of the law enforcement involved as well as the justice system. If someone withing that group sees themselves as getting one side or another to compromise on what they see as the truth, then in my opinion, it encourages the opposite. This is not a civil dispute with a resolution that neither side is going to be entirely happy with but is willing to accept. The truth remains what it is regardless of her "mediated" statement.

 

[Kestrel]

I meant nothing by it. We know it was regular underwear do we, not that G-strings are exactly fetish gear in these enlightened times? But still, if going to by granny pants turned into what it turned into, going to buy knives would have been huge... not that they would have anticipated it.

Probably. The tabloids were chomping at the bit for anything to stick on AK and RS.

Young sexy murderesses sell papers. So play up the sex, play up the evil, perfectly normal behavior can be made to look bad if you write it up correctly. Make things up if there isn't anything real to report. Their goal is to sell papers and make money, not to discover the truth.

Reality is that Amanda was locked out of her home. She bought underwear because she didn't have any. Just as any of us would have done in that situation.

As for enlightened times, it seems that the light has yet to reach Perugia. From all appearances, it's a cultural backwater. Living about a half century behind the rest of the developed world.

 

[capealadin]

For Truethat: May I suggest reading the Judge's report? You can download it at Perugia Murder file. It is comprehensive, over 400 pages.

 

[shuttlt]

Yes, I have seen this as well. Her statement on this mediator thing is nothing short of bizarre. The other cops should not see themselves as mediators either, what their focus should be is determining the truth. The same as the rest of the law enforcement involved as well as the justice system. If someone withing that group sees themselves as getting one side or another to compromise on what they see as the truth, then in my opinion, it encourages the opposite. This is not a civil dispute with a resolution that neither side is going to be entirely happy with but is willing to accept. The truth remains what it is regardless of her "mediated" statement.

Her statement is in Italian, it is inevitable that it is "mediated" in some way. Perhaps the translator behaved appropriately, perhaps not, but you cannot read the answer into the nuance that may, or may not be attached to a word.

 

[shuttlt]

I would have buried the knife. When trash day came, I would have put it in someone else's trash. The last thing I would have done is to take the knife home. Ha! What an absurd idea to take the knife home, kill someone in the home and leave the body in your home.

I wouldn't have murdered Meredith, therefore she is still alive.

 

[Kaosium]

No. It is not mere pedantry. Your statement, with its use of the phrase "instantly decompose", was meant clearly and specifically to suggest that if bleach was used at all on the knife then it must a priori have been cleaned of any usable DNA.

Parsing paragraphs pour proper preciseness peripheral per posters point possibly pretending pronounced pomposity perhaps promotes practically pedantry.

In fact, though, the knife could easily have been inexpertly cleaned with an ineffective use of bleach, and some usable DNA might quite likely have survived. Hence the need for the detailed, careful, and rigorous procedures outlined in the sources halides1 has so generously cited in these threads.

This is in direct contradiction to the point you were disingenuously attempting, and thus not pedantry.

I would suspect if there were any traces left on that knife after it was supposedly used for slitting a throat with blood gushing everywhere it wouldn't be the easiest part of the blade to clean where it survived, but perhaps near the handle in those tough to reach spots where blood can ooze in. If inexpertly wiped it would seem difficult to miss that east part but get the rest of it, and I'd think a liquid like bleach could manage to squirm itself anywhere a trace of flesh could.

I'd think it more likely that if you screw that machine all the way down you'd increase your chances of picking up an otherwise untraceable secondary transfer, being as it was Amanda's DNA and she lived with Meredith.

Come to think of it, you've probably heard all this, haven't you? Perhaps even seven or eight times.

Oh, well I typed it so I'll post it, but personally I think the odds that knife ever left the drawer being as it doesn't match most of the evidence at the scene is virtually nil.

It seems that you and Mary_H both suffer from a misapprehension of the meaning of that term. It does have a meaning, you know. It is not merely a schoolyard taunt.

Would it be pedantry to argue over the precise use and proper placement of the term 'pendanty?'

I'd better flee!

 

[shuttlt]

Probably. The tabloids were chomping at the bit for anything to stick on AK and RS.

Young sexy murderesses sell papers. So play up the sex, play up the evil, perfectly normal behavior can be made to look bad if you write it up correctly. Make things up if there isn't anything real to report. Their goal is to sell papers and make money, not to discover the truth.

Loads of rubbish, and untrue and made up things were published, particularly early on. Same thing with the Madeleine McCann case, they know they have so many column inches to fill and that there will almost certainly be no consequence if it turns out to be untrue.

As for enlightened times, it seems that the light has yet to reach Perugia. From all appearances, it's a cultural backwater. Living about a half century behind the rest of the developed world.

So, a bit like Wales then?

 

[quadraginta]

I believe we had already established this earlier, when the discussion was about Sollecito's apparent belief that the girls had none.

Might have even been the same photo.

The photo was posted for Shuttit who asked if such a photo was available. You don't need to respond to my posts if they are directed at others.

I believe you overlooked the salient point in my post.

In at least one of Sollecito's versions of reality he seemed to be under the impression that the Knox apartment was suffering from a lack of food prep equipment. This was by way of explaining why he had loaned that particular knife to Knox.

This tidbit was vouchsafed by one Knox defender, and then contradicted by another Knox defender who offered a photo very similar to the one you just posted. As I said, perhaps the same one.

As I recall, the question of why Knox would have been concealing the presence of such a wealth of cutlery from Sollecito somehow became less interesting at that point, at least by some participants here.

 

[RoseMontague]

Her statement is in Italian, it is inevitable that it is "mediated" in some way. Perhaps the translator behaved appropriately, perhaps not, but you cannot read the answer into the nuance that may, or may not be attached to a word.

I will concede the point that we do not have the original Italian to see if it was properly translated. In the meantime we have Amanda's statement in the same article that she suggested the interpreter told her that she was traumatized and just could not remember.....

Knox quoted the interpreter as saying that "probably I didn't remember well because I was traumatised. So I should try to remember something else".

It appears this "interpreter/mediator" got what she asked for in the "something else".

 

[platonov]

Probably. The tabloids were chomping at the bit for anything to stick on AK and RS.

Young sexy murderesses sell papers. So play up the sex, play up the evil, perfectly normal behavior can be made to look bad if you write it up correctly. Make things up if there isn't anything real to report. Their goal is to sell papers and make money, not to discover the truth.

Reality is that Amanda was locked out of her home. She bought underwear because she didn't have any. Just as any of us would have done in that situation.

As for enlightened times, it seems that the light has yet to reach Perugia. From all appearances, it's a cultural backwater. Living about a half century behind the rest of the developed world.

From the same post as last time.
One of us is on a roll


- multiple earlier posts complaining about sensational or prurient articles in the UK media etc
- Indeed going right back to the cartwheel argument that started this thread, much of the Foaker arguments seem predicated on how AK is 'perceived' * as opposed to the very real evidence that convicted her.

* The behavior of the accused after the murder or in court obviously has some bearing

 

[RWVBWL]

Ask your doctor!

Hi Solange305, CapeAladin, and other colpevolisti,

Did you ever ask your doctor the question:
"How long does it take for the stomach to start and to finish emptying."
Treehorn is waiting for a family get together, since his brothers are too busy, and Stilicho, well he doesn't want to...

How's about it?
Ask your doctor!
Prove Halides1, LondonJohn and Kevin Lowe wrong!

As I am self employed and do not have a doctor, I can not ask.
But if I did, I would've hit him/her up a long time ago!
So I will ask a few different doctor friends when I see them surfing sometime, hopefully soon.

I await your response gals, and guys too!
Thanks,
RWVBWL

 

[Justinian2]

From the same post as last time.
One of us is on a roll


- multiple earlier posts complaining about sensational or prurient articles in the UK media etc
- Indeed going right back to the cartwheel argument that started this thread, much of the Foaker arguments seem predicated on how AK is 'perceived' * as opposed to the very real evidence that convicted her.*

The behavior of the accused after the murder or in court obviously has some bearing

You say: the very real evidence that convicted her. There isn't any real evidence against AK and RS. There isn't any real motive either. There isn't any logic to the police actions. There isn't any logic to the perceived actions of AK and RS. There isn't any logic to the staged breakin. Nothing is real.

This is a study of the theory of chaos. That's all. No more. No less. The butterfly effect.

Or, the cartwheel effect.

 

[Kaosium]

[qimg]http://www.perugiamurderfile.org/gallery/image.php?album_id=21&image_id=1252[/qimg]

Thank you for posting that, Withnail, where did you find it? I saw it in my initial round of googling but tried to find it for someone else a little while back and spent about an hour in a fruitless attempt.

 

[capealadin]

From the same post as last time.
One of us is on a roll


- multiple earlier posts complaining about sensational or prurient articles in the UK media etc
- Indeed going right back to the cartwheel argument that started this thread, much of the Foaker arguments seem predicated on how AK is 'perceived' * as opposed to the very real evidence that convicted her.

* The behavior of the accused after the murder or in court obviously has some bearing

I wouldn't think too highly of my Doctors, if they gave an answer. There is too much criteria to be met, and it's an *inexact science* at best.

 

[RWVBWL]

I wouldn't have murdered Meredith, therefore she is still alive.

I would have prevented it,
or died tryin'...

Peace to you all,
RWVBWL

 

[capealadin]

Sorry. My reply is to RWVBWL.