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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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A day later would make it TWO days, i.e. DAYS.
Let me remind you what you said:
But he didn't make his getaway until days after the phones were found!
The phones were found on 2 November; Rudy left on 3 November. That's one day. Since he was arrested by police in Monaco on 4 November, he could hardly have left any later. And really, do you expect us to believe that when you said Rudy didn't "make his getaway until days after the phones were found", you honestly meant he left two days after that, rather than implying it was a lot longer?

But perhaps you were misled by something Michael/Fulcanelli wrote at PMF: :)

Michael said:
[Rudy] left on the 10th...a full 4 days after Amanda's, Raffaele's and Patrick's arrest and 8 days after the 2nd
 
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Very good! But what I'm trying to get from you is what is it actually that you prefer to believe. I know you believe in Massei, but he doesn't give even a hypothetical scenario of what happened in the house of horrors as a build up to the crime.

Can you give it a shot? Let's imagine it like Massei did: AK and RS just finished watching Amelie, they switched off the phones together for no apparent reason, and now they walk happily, carrying a knife for protection and meet Guede by chance on their way.

They didn't walk. They had to run very fast. The episode of Naruto finished at 21:26, and eagle eye Curatolo places them at the basketball court at precisely 21:27. Rudy Guede was presumably invisible while all this happened, and remained invisible for the next 2 hours.
 
I see no reason to doubt that Amanda and Meredith were close friends (certainly not the libellous gossip that has been put about by the character assassination campaign against Amanda). Young women like that would also have been on good terms with each other's boyfriends,
You obviously have no firsthand knowledge of young women of that age.

With two teenage daughters, numerous friends, etc., I can GUARANTEE that that is total BS!
 
Let me remind you what you said:

The phones were found on 2 November; Rudy left on 3 November. That's one day. Since he was arrested by police in Monaco on 4 November, he could hardly have left any later. And really, do you expect us to believe that when you said Rudy didn't "make his getaway until days after the phones were found", you honestly meant he left two days after that, rather than implying it was a lot longer?

But perhaps you were misled by something Michael/Fulcanelli wrote at PMF: :)

So, Murder committed on 1 Nov., Rudy left on 3 Nov., that's TWO days!

Learn some math.
 
You obviously have no firsthand knowledge of young women of that age.

With two teenage daughters, numerous friends, etc., I can GUARANTEE that that is total BS!
Excuse me, but I have 3 teen grand daughters with numerous friends and they get along fine with each other and each other's boyfriends.
 
Reading a book.

Why not dialing her mother again?

What about undressing or at least taking her shoes off? Wasn't she tired from partying to 5 am the previous day? And now she stays in her clothes and shoes, reading a book (what book?) and after an hour of not calling her mother she starts to fumble with her phone like a toddler. Hmmm.

And what about her damp clothes in the washing machine? She doesn't care?
 
Let me remind you what you said:

The phones were found on 2 November; Rudy left on 3 November. That's one day. Since he was arrested by police in Monaco on 4 November, he could hardly have left any later. And really, do you expect us to believe that when you said Rudy didn't "make his getaway until days after the phones were found", you honestly meant he left two days after that, rather than implying it was a lot longer?
He was arrested on 20 Nov. between Mainz and Koblenz, nowhere even near Munich!

Get your facts STRAIGHT.
 
Let me remind you what you said:

The phones were found on 2 November; Rudy left on 3 November. That's one day. Since he was arrested by police in Monaco on 4 November, he could hardly have left any later.

How did Rudy get into Monaco? I thought it was pretty exclusive.
 
He was arrested on 20 Nov. between Mainz and Koblenz, nowhere even near Munich!

Get your facts STRAIGHT.

And stopped by the police on 4 November, in Monaco, where he gave the false name "Kevin Wade".

No YOU get your facts straight (you could start by reading the judge's report from Rudy's appeal).
 
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Why not dialing her mother again?

What about undressing or at least taking her shoes off? Wasn't she tired from partying to 5 am the previous day? And now she stays in her clothes and shoes, reading a book (what book?) and after an hour of not calling her mother she starts to fumble with her phone like a toddler. Hmmm.

And what about her damp clothes in the washing machine? She doesn't care?

Maybe she started the wash, and fell asleep from exhaustion.

Of course, this is normal for guys, and some women (based on personal experience)
 
Machiavelli!
Sorry I'm late to the debate, but please allow me to comment on your posting...
Thanks, RWVBWL

No.
Let me explain you how I really see it. I think I’ve read this argument from the innocentisti a thousand times now. This idea is repeated all the time, I wish I could just state once for all I disagree with this argument.

It was in fact my earliest feeling or thought about this case, as I approached it, having yet no opinion about Amanda and Raffaele’s guilt yet, and having not read their diaries and cofession/statements, and having not seen luminol footprints and other evidence yet. The first thing I felt was a narrative based on the scenario like one intruder entered the window and climbed through and killed Meredith was not straightforward.

I make clear again one separate thought: the act of assaulting and killing Meredith is anyway not rational in any case, for a normal human perspective, not even if committed by Rudy Guede as a lone assaulter or by any person acting on somewhat rational motives. But this is not the main aspect: also, the scenario of a lone assaulter is in its peculiarlity not straightforward here, not explaining and not fitting the data, and illogical, in the building of an explanation with the evidence of this case.
This is the very first perception that I had on the case, before any in depth analysis of possible evidence against Knox and Sollecito.

The reading of the crime scene with a lone assaulter does not make perfect sense. Nor do the actions of the alleged perpetrator.

Machiavelli said:
The point of entry for burglary is illogic. And dangerous especially because of the glass and the intruder’s balance.
I too find a second story window to be an odd way to gain entrance to a place, but hey, aren't there some burgalries that start with a person climbing thru a chimney?

Machiavelli said:
The evidence of burglary inside is inconsistent.
Not if a burglarer is suprised by a housemember coming home and finding them there.

Machiavelli said:
The sexual assault is inconsistent with being caught by surprise.
Could it have happened hours later?
Say Rudy Guede, after leaving the Domus nightclub, came by and did not see any police activity and went inside to check if Meredith was still alive and then he sexually assaulted her?

Machiavelli said:
A murder with no sexual violence would be definitely more consistent with being caught by surprise and discovery would constitute the motive for murder. In this case, instead, the sexual violence – and the possible discovery of this – was the reason and the motive for murder. This sexual violence on Meredith is utterly illogic, and also inconsistent with Rudy’s personality.
I too have wondered if Rudy Guede had it in him to KILL someone.
If he did though, why did he go and get towels out of the bathroom?

Machiavelli said:
The faeces in the toilet are inconsistent even with interrupted burglary and with burglary itself, and interrupted burglary is anyway too unlikely on the too limited searching for values around the house.
Didn't Rudy 1 time get so high that when he used the restroom to the guys apartment downstairs, he fell asleep on the toilet?
Wasn't he found in the morning by Giacomo's roommate -(Stefano?) with his pants around his ankles in the morning?

Machiavelli said:
The sexual assault had a kind of staging occurring after, a movement of the body and partial undressing of victim: taking away her sweater after her stabbing is inconsistent, unexplained, not straightforward. Moving her without dropping her blood, using towels: unexplained/illogic, too.
If Rudy did not kill Meredith, but instead came in as someone else, say Luciano Aviella's brother, -(Is he left handed?), was leaving, and actually did try to help save Meredith as she lay dying, wouldn't that help explain the bathroom towels in Meredith's room? Could he have came back later to see if she was alive and then he moved her, undressed her, and then sexually assaulted her?

Machiavelli said:
The sexual violence is also physically extremely moderate, aborted, contrasting with the extreme and decided violence of the killing action.
It sure is, and it does seemingly show, to me at least, that Rudy Guede possibly, after leaving the Domus club, while slightly intoxicated, or heck, even drunk, came back to check to see if Meredith was alive, moved her body and digitally sexually assaulted her, possibly masturbating himself to climax and then afterwards, covered her body with a duvet.
Doesn't "Angel Face" author Barbie Nadeau write of Frank Sfarzo of Perugia Shock speaking of Meredith in her death?
"Seriously, she was so beautiful and sweet, she seemed to be alive, with her eyes open, and with the mascara on her eyelashes[sic], just like ready to go out."

Machiavelli said:
And her scream, which was actually hared and reported by all witnesses including Rudy,
Did Antonio Curatolo or Alessandra Formica, who both testified in court, also hear any screams that night?

Machiavelli said:
should have started on her discovery of an intruder, even before the sexual violence, not on her killing.
Unless Meredith was suprised by a person who immediately placed their hand over her mouth, as do people who abduct others in broad daylight.
Rudy has always said he heard Meredith's scream after he arrived at her apartment. NOT AT 11:30pm!
So that, I believe does also reinforce Meredith's TIME OF DEATH as being much earlier than the court believes.

Machiavelli said:
And Rudy Guede’s shoe-prints, instead, do show a straightforward scenario. So why a bloody bare foot? Not consistent with his being wearing shoes, and with traces of his movements in the house pointing elsewhere.
I'll pass on the shoeprints+footprints, except to say that on the day the murder was discovered, the apartment had 5 or 6 young adults come into it and walk around, plus 2 Postal police officers and 2 Paramedics that did not wear any protective gear, and so this evidence was therefore walked on, and probably smeared too at some point.

Machiavelli said:
And the cleanup of the floor in the bathroom is certain: somebody cleaned the floor around the bathmat and left a 26 centimetre long bloody swiping on the door side. This is inconsistent with a burglar too.
Didn't Amanda Knox come home and use the shower just a couple of hours prior to Meredith's body being found?
Might that help explain what you ask?

Machiavelli said:
And the duvet to cover the dead body: the covering is made usually when the murderer is close to the victim, here it is another useless, unmotivated, not straightforward element for a burglar, nor for a violent rapist.
I bet that a guy, who had probably just masturbated himself to climax, using a dead womans body, is probably afterwards DISGUSTED with himself, and did not want to see her corpse again.

Machiavelli said:
Further alteration of the room – that was slightly “tidied up” – is visible.
Tidied up?, Not much, I'd say! For wasn't there blood on Meredith's handbag/purse or whatever each person in their respective country of origin wants to call it and wasn't there blood found on the inside doorway handle? Please keep in mind that, most likely, Postal police Officer Michele Battistelli and 2 Paramedics were in Meredith's bedroom, before the evidence collection had started.

Machiavelli said:
Shoeprints from unknown shoes by more than one person are visible in the victim’s room and in different locations of the house.
Luciano Aviello's brother maybe?
Or maybe someone loitering in the area, like a druggie, came into the apartment after Meredith was killed while the front door was left open overnight?
Might they be the source of those un-attributed fingerprints that were found too?
If so, could a person who entered and then saw Meredith dead have screamed loudly and took off running. You know, the scream Nara Capazzali heard around 11:30pm or so?
Maybe afterwards, when the Domus nightclub closed, was when Rudy Guede might have stopped by and after doing his business, he locked Meredith's bedroom door and then split, not locking the front door...

Machiavelli said:
Nothing is straightforward in a lone-perpetrator scenario.
Hmmm, I agree.
I'll keep pondering this brutal, bloody murder as I hang out at the beach. I hope that you keep pondering everything too, Machiavelli!
IF Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito are indeed guilty of ANY INVOLVEMENT in the death of Meredith Kercher, I need much more proof of their involvement then I have seen so far.

Machiavelli said:
By the way, in city of Perugia, at least two other cases of murder with a staged burglary occurred during the last four years.
By any chance Machiavelli, were any paintings missing from these residences?
Or were there any sexual assaults commited?
Hmmm, I wonder...
RWVBWL
 
Since he was arrested by police in Monaco on 4 November

He was arrested on 20 Nov. between Mainz and Koblenz, nowhere even near Munich!

Get your facts STRAIGHT.

Reading what we want to see, not what is really there, aren't we? Could it be a trend in some self-selecting circles :rolleyes:?
 
And stopped by the police on 4 November, in Monaco, where he gave the false name "Kevin Wade".

No YOU get your facts straight (you could start by reading the judge's report from Rudy's appeal).

I think Monaco is a bit out of Rudy's league. Apparently:

Rudy Hermann Guede, 20, a student from the Ivory Coast, was arrested on a train near Mainz, the capital of the Rhineland-Pflaz region, after an international manhunt.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/wor...th-suspect-captured-after-sleeping-rough.html
 
:confused:
But he didn't make his getaway until days after the phones were found!
:confused:

You're getting rude when proven wrong. Don't be rude please!
It's not being rude, it's pointing out the correct order of magnitude, i.e. DAYS rather than HOURS or MINUTES.
 
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