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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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A mobile phone is about a million times more traceable than a PC.
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That's why he threw them away. He didn't take them to try and sell them.

DNA is a much more condemning item to leave behind than a PC.
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Indeed. But it's kind of unavoidable given the messy mechanics of raping and killing people.

If there's nothing else of value in a students' cottage, then why even break in to begin with?
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He wanted the girls' rent money.
 
My house got broken into when I was just a child - the burglar(s) emptied my piggy bank and stole 16 shillings (the equivalent of 80p). Sometimes burglars do stupid things. Go figure.
 
Kermit said:
And he left his DNA and shoeprints and - according to the FOAKers - the bathmat footprint, yet decided to renounce taking any booty with him because that could link him with the crime?

And he washed the top of his shoes, but not the soles.

I prefer to believe Amanda when she says that she was present in the cottage when Meredith was killed.
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You seriously understated your beliefs. You prefer to believe in a ritualistic orgy with strangers ending in a killing with two knives, one of them being a kitchen knife carried for protection and then returned to the drawer. All of this being a product of reefers madness and violent comic books.

You believe Meredith fumbled aimlessly with her cellphone after an hour of doing nothing at all (not even digesting her pizza).
You also believe AK and RS levitated around the murder room and got blood on their feet by some magical way.
 
daydreamer said:
Originally Posted by RoseMontague

He didn't miss the other nail in the wall, maybe quite a trick to miss both of them. Look at the high resolution photo of the wall showing nail photo I provided to PMF slightly below and to the left of the remaining nail shows a hole where a nail was that has part of the brick chipped out as ina nail being stepped on and dislodged.
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The broken nail is about 30 in. (76 cm) below the window sill and slightly left of center of the window itself. If he had pushed off the grid with his right foot to place his weight on his hands (on the sill), the distance from his palms to where his left would be located on the cottage wall is about 30 in. He would twist his body slightly right to allow him to bring his right foot up to the sill (bypassing the nail on the right). As I have said before this is the same motion we all use to exit a swimming pool. The nail on the right is about 24 in. (61 cm.) from the sill and would hit Rudy about 2 in. ( 5 cm) below his hip joint, which is generally too high to use as a foothold, much easier to just hop up off his right foot.
I was thinking that Rudy may have been the one that put those nails in place. The location of the nails seem strange to me, I can't think of any reasonable purpose for nails in that location. One of the "dings" looks like a failed attempt at inserting a nail in the middle of a brick. It's much easier to put a nail in the mortar. All speculation of course !!!
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Now you are both again falling foul of Kevin Lowes earlier analysis ......

That's another common argumentative tactic of the pro-guilt :eek: side, I've noticed.
They get into a lather of incredulity over trivialities they could explain themselves with a moment's thought, and if that doesn't work they make something up.

Or perhaps we can use 'juicing the piglet' as shorthand :)

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Kermit said:
Then why steal it to begin with?
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He needed a window to make his getaway. he didn't want anyone coming back to the cottage and hearing Meredith's phones ringing, since the girls and presumably their friends knew that Meredith's mother was ill and she would always answer her phone any time day or night for that reason. Obviously i can't say for sure Rudy knew that, but either way, it still made sense to throw the phones away.
 
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WOW!!!!

Katody Matrass said:
You prefer to believe in a ritualistic orgy
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(looking over my shoulder) ... are you referring to me? I said that I have no better alternative to the Massei report.

Please explain this "ritualistic orgy". Can you tell me where you dug that up, and where it entered the trial?

I think that all readers of this fine forum are interested in hearing about this.
 
How's your Mum?

Withnail1969 said:
He needed a window to make his getaway. he didn't want anyone coming back to the cottage and hearing Meredith's phones ringing, since everyone knew that Meredith's mother was ill and she would always answer her phone any time day or night for that reason.
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You're saying that Rudy had a chat with Meredith before brutally killing her, and they discussed her mother's health?
 
Kermit said:
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You're saying that Rudy had a chat with Meredith before brutally killing her, and they discussed her mother's health?
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see my edited post above. Rudy hung out with the guys downstairs, one of whom slept with Meredith, so it may have been mentioned.
 
Matthew Best said:
My house got broken into when I was just a child - the burglar(s) emptied my piggy bank and stole 16 shillings (the equivalent of 80p). Sometimes burglars do stupid things. Go figure.
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Are you sure it was burglars - siblings can be cruel :)

Either way your 'piglet was juiced'.

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Withnail1969 said:
He needed a window to make his getaway. he didn't want anyone coming back to the cottage and hearing Meredith's phones ringing, since the girls and presumably their friends knew that Meredith's mother was ill and she would always answer her phone any time day or night for that reason. Obviously i can't say for sure Rudy knew that, but either way, it still made sense to throw the phones away.
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Why not simply turn them off?
 
TomCH said:
Why not simply turn them off?
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Evidence indicates he possibly tried to but wasn't familiar with the phone type. Switching them off might have indicated to Meredith's family or others that something was wrong, since she didn't switch her phones off.

Easier just to dump them somewhere where they won't be found.
 
platonov said:
Are you sure it was burglars - siblings can be cruel :)

Either way your 'piglet was juiced'.

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Please refrain from making further reference to my sibling, as he died suddenly a couple of weeks ago and I'm busy preparing for his memorial service at the end of next week, and the subject is rather sensitive.

As for your other sentence I have no idea what you mean.
 
TomCH said:
But he didn't make his getaway until days after the phones were found!
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it still reduced the risk of anyone finding the body immediately after the murder. He may have changed his mind and decided to bluff it out on the basis that he was at Domus all night.
 
Now we're talking

Matthew Best said:
What's your theory of why the mobile phones were removed from the house and thrown away - and whatever it is, why can't it apply to Guede as well as it can apply to Knox or Sollecito?
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Matthew, my fine gentleman, here we are getting to some common ground.

Rudy the burglar-who-surprised-his-murder-victim (which I agree sounds illogical, but we'll say that to suit your theory), either would have taken valuables (especially those computers which aren't really all that traceable, and given that FOAKers say he's a computer thief), or he would have left all valuables (to not have anything traceable on him).

Rudy the burglar-who-surprised-his-murder-victim wouldn't have had much time for niceties and small chat with his victim about her family's health.

Rudy the burglar-who-surprised-his-murder-victim doesn't fit in with a logical tale as you almost seem to recognise when you ask me why can dumping the mobile phones be compatible with AK and RS but not RG.

Well, you're right. Potentially Rudy could have dumped the phones. I personally don't feel that was the case, but it could be. His apartment is about the same distance as Raffaele's apartment (in fact a few metres closer) to the garden where they were thrown.

And the reason the phones were stolen and thrown is quite likely what we're all saying. But a burglar-turned-murderer who's concerned about getting the heck out won't be taking time to daintily wash his shoes, nor will he have had a chat with the victim about her mother calling. This sort of information would only be known if the attacker had been talking with the victim, or if one of the attacking party knew the victim enough to know these details and decide that someone had to ditch the phones.

The Lone Wolf Theory doesn't fit.
 
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TomCH said:
Not at all.

IF Rudy (or anyone) left a bare bloody print partially on the bath mat, then the rest of the print MUST have been left on the floor. As none was found on the floor, the bare print on the floor MUST have been cleaned up. But since Rudy had various other prints around the place, that he did NOT clean up, why on earth would he have cleaned up this one? The only reasonable explanation is that he did not leave any bare footprints!
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I agree with you that cleaning only part of the print would be quite incredible, no matter who would be the cleaner.

But I cannot agree that it MUST have been cleaned up. There are various other possibilities. More probable possibilities. It's quite possible the bathmat didn't remain in the same position after Guede left the mark. As it was quite diluted and quite incomplete, it is questionable if the police recognized such a diluted stain as part of the bathmat mark. If they found it at all, as they shown they miss some more obvious prints, like the ones on the pillow. Moreover, many people went through that bathroom before any collection of evidence commenced - it could have contributed to the stain being not recognizable.

Such a scenario rings more true to me, than a scenario when someone purposefully cleans up only part of the print and leaves the rest.

As you see, this is not the way you can exclude Guede as a source of that mark.

BTW I think the bathmat was collected before any tests for residual blood were made in the bathroom. So the connection of any stain with the partial print would be even harder to made. I recall the photo of the "pink" bathroom and a comment that they botched that test, so no meaningful results were achieved. If the diluted stain was not visible, they lost the chance to discover it.
 
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Kermit said:
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Matthew, my fine gentleman, here we are getting to some common ground.

Rudy the burglar-who-surprised-his-murder-victim (which I agree sounds illogical, but we'll say that to suit your theory).
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Why is that illogical? Are you saying that the categories 'burglar' and 'murderer' are mutually exclusive?

So if someone is a burglar they can't be a murderer?
 
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