Public Education is a Socialist Monopoly

[John Jones]

Please start doing some work yourself... for a change.

Moreover, start ordering your pals to give you ounces of evidence.
You blindly accept anything a fellow Leftist says.

Most hypocritical.

Education majors LOWEST on SAT scores, on average.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams051904.asp

Lovely.

I asked if you are a YEC.

Do you need that question explained to you?

 

[Hindmost]

Please start doing some work yourself... for a change.

Moreover, start ordering your pals to give you ounces of evidence.
You blindly accept anything a fellow Leftist says.

Most hypocritical.

Education majors LOWEST on SAT scores, on average.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams051904.asp

Lovely.

Incidentally, what is the MOST informative post you have made in the past two or three days?
Let's see it. I have searched in vain for something material you have written - something substantive.
I quit after looking down your entire first page of recent posts.

To the Ignore List you go as well.

You have to vet these type of things.. people that become teachers don't necessarily do so from an education program. They change majors and become teachers or they get a specific degree and decide to become a teacher. This is doesn't show up in your cherry picked article. Turns out, teachers tend to be above average.

glenn

 

[Roboramma]

If your poor attitude coming right out of the gate isn't self-evident by now, after having been called on it several times and had it quoted back to you, I don't know how else to point it out. I'm a good teacher, but I'm not that good.

Only leftists have pointed out his poor attitude. Clearly we leftists are biased ********, so our opinion carries no weight!

 

[Craig4]

JonathanQuick,

Are you a YEC?

He probably won't answer so I'll do it for him. Yes he is. You should see his rants on evolution in the science forum. I suspect the real source of his angst is that his kids have to learn real biology in public schools and not YEC fairy tale biology.

 

[lionking]

He probably won't answer

Well not for seven days anyway. Silenced by the leftist conspiracy running the forum.


http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6492558#post6492558

 

[NobbyNobbs]

In the countless posts where I have been attacked, you have not whispered a word of objection.


Qi tacet consentire videtur.

And the mob, your mob, rages on.

I see. If I don't defend you, I must be part of the mob attacking you.

That must mean I believe in Bigfoot, since I don't actively speak out in favor of those who debunk it.
I guess Lee Harvey Oswald must not have acted alone because I haven't weighed in on that one.
And I guess I think Simon Cowell is the best American Idol judge, due to the fact that I've remained completely silent on the issue.

Interesting worldview you hold. I'll bet you find yourself looking nervously over your shoulder a lot.

You have to vet these type of things.. people that become teachers don't necessarily do so from an education program. They change majors and become teachers or they get a specific degree and decide to become a teacher. This is doesn't show up in your cherry picked article. Turns out, teachers tend to be above average.

glenn

Case in point: I was a physics major.


I predict death by mod before year's end.

 

[jj-158]

And while we're busy quoting forum rules, that post of yours is off topic (as is this one, yeah I know).

Pointing out that someone is using a logical fallacy on a forum for skepticism is hardly off topic.

 

[GreyArea]

After a quick online search, I found two references to teacher salaries of $95,000. This may be instructive, even if our illustrious troll continues to ignore demands for evidence, and won't even identify his general location.

One item I found was a report about the Upper Perkiomen School District in Pennsylvania.

Starting salaries for teachers in Upper Perkiomen are about $42,000, with teachers at the top of the pay scale earning $95,000. The average teacher's salary is $68,500.

http://articles.mcall.com/2010-06-25/news/mc-upper-perk-budget-20100625_1_sandra-kassel-upper-perkiomen-education-association-teachers-contract

According to the website of the Upper Perkiomen School District, it "is situated in the Upper Perkiomen Valley (Pennsburg, Red Hill, East Greenville, Green Lane, Barto, and Sumneytown), Pennsylvania...." Most of these towns are in Montgomery County, others are near it.

Montgomery County is ranked at 20 in the list of 50 highest-income counties by personal per capita income (2005).

The nice thing about this article is that it also gives the average salary and starting salary for a district with the top salary brought up by JQ.


Another example that I found was a recent scandal in Connecticut where a well-payed teacher was stealing money from other teachers' purses. JQ, I know you're going to love this one. Susan Dinnean, 55, of Redding, Connecticut, quit her teaching job that paid $94,996. She taught at Middlebrook Middle School in Wilton. http://www.nbcnewyork.com/news/local-beat/Teacher-Steals-20-Quits-Her-94996-Job-70011187.html

Here is an Excel spreadsheet which shows income for towns in Connecticut according to the 2000 Census. Wilton was fourth-highest for median household income ($141,428) and median family income ($158,415), and sixth-highest for per capita income ($65,806). Redding isn't far behind.
XLS file: http://www.ct.gov/ecd/cwp/view.asp?a=1106&q=250652

Both of those towns are in Fairfield County, which is ranked at 6 in the list of 20 highest-income counties by average per capita income (2009).


The pattern I'm seeing so far is that top teacher salaries of around $95,000 happen in the wealthiest areas of the nation. Is this really surprising? Are there places which break the pattern?

According to JQ's claim about his income here, and Schedules Y and Z here (he has mentioned a wife, but I don't know which schedule they are using), JQ's household income is in the $315,000-$335,000 range. He probably lives in one of those wealthiest counties. All this means that of course they will have high maximum teacher salaries.

 

[Hindmost]

I see. If I don't defend you, I must be part of the mob attacking you.

That must mean I believe in Bigfoot, since I don't actively speak out in favor of those who debunk it.
I guess Lee Harvey Oswald must not have acted alone because I haven't weighed in on that one.
And I guess I think Simon Cowell is the best American Idol judge, due to the fact that I've remained completely silent on the issue.

Interesting worldview you hold. I'll bet you find yourself looking nervously over your shoulder a lot.



Case in point: I was a physics major.


I predict death by mod before year's end.

and wayyyyyyyyyyyy above average

glenn

 

[Hindmost]

Teacher salaries in the US...reasonable information is included in the following links. What is also not stated is the lack of investment programs available to teachers. Pension plans are reasonable, but 403b plans are just not much when compared with 401Ks.

http://www.aft.org/pdfs/teachers/salarysurvey07.pdf

http://www.payscale.com/research/US/All_K-12_Teachers/Salary

glenn

 

[MattusMaximus]

He probably won't answer so I'll do it for him. Yes he is. You should see his rants on evolution in the science forum. I suspect the real source of his angst is that his kids have to learn real biology in public schools and not YEC fairy tale biology.

As I said before, it is no surprise that much of the support for private school vouchers comes from religious fundamentalists who wish to subvert the separation of church & state in the United States.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Well not for seven days anyway. Silenced by the leftist conspiracy running the forum.

http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6492558#post6492558

Well, obviously...

 

[Craig4]

As I said before, it is no surprise that much of the support for private school vouchers comes from religious fundamentalists who wish to subvert the separation of church & state in the United States.

I find it darkly comic that people who tend to be so outwardly patriotic are so quick to throw our (American, the rest of you talk quietly among yourselves we'll be back in a minute) most cherished principals out the window.

 

[cwalner]

I find it darkly comic that people who tend to be so outwardly patriotic are so quick to throw our (American, the rest of you talk quietly among yourselves we'll be back in a minute) most cherished principals out the window.

I think Ambrose Bierce said it so well over 100 years ago, that I don't know how to improve upon it.

PATRIOTISM, n.
Combustible rubbish ready to the torch of any one ambitious to illuminate his name.

In Dr. Johnson's famous dictionary patriotism is defined as the last resort of a scoundrel. With all due respect to an enlightened but inferior lexicographer I beg to submit that it is the first.

 

[MattusMaximus]

Since the topic of uber-patriotism has come up, I figure that I would share this little gem of insanity taking place practically in my backyard...

Pledge controversy leads to death threat claims

If there's already another thread on this, my apologies.

 

[Garrison0fMars]

Wow at the above link. I can't believe that nonsense still goes on..

 

[Mark R]

Education majors LOWEST on SAT scores, on average.

http://www.jewishworldreview.com/cols/williams051904.asp

First, I do not think I know a single teacher who majored in education. I, for example, majored in history with a minor in political science. This is standard at the high school level, major in an area like math, science, or art and then go on to teach it.

Found something amusing:

Students declaring an intention to go to graduate school in philosophy have the highest mean scores on the Verbal section of the GRE (mean: 589) of any major. The best score outside of the humanities and arts in this category is physics, with a Verbal mean of 534. Education majors have a mean score of 450, while business majors come in even lower at 446.

And

The story is much the same for the Analytical Writing section of the GRE. Students declaring an intention to go to graduate school in philosophy get the highest mean scores of any major on this section of the GRE (mean: 5.1). The best score outside of the humanities in this category was political science, with an Analytical Writing mean of 4.9. Life and physical sciences majors performed more poorly, however, with the highest mean score again going to physics majors (mean: 4.5). Education majors have a mean score of 4.3, while business majors again come in slightly lower with a mean score of 4.2.

Data is from 2005 to 2006. Link to the website where the report can be viewed.

So if people who major in education are dumb, what does that make business majors?

Applying your reasoning, business majors must be the most unqualified people on the planet.

Cherry picking data of this type does not actually tell us anything beneficial.

 

[Startz]

First, I do not think I know a single teacher who majored in education. I, for example, majored in history with a minor in political science. This is standard at the high school level, major in an area like math, science, or art and then go on to teach it.

From the Condition of Education, 2002, page 32

Among all secondary teachers, 49 percent majored in an academic subject, 38 percent in a subject area specialization in education, 7 percent in general education, and 6 percent in some other education specialization for their graduate or undergraduate degree

 

[Mark R]

From the Condition of Education, 2002, page 32
Among all secondary teachers, 49 percent majored in an academic subject, 38 percent in a subject area specialization in education, 7 percent in general education, and 6 percent in some other education specialization for their graduate or undergraduate degree

I found this with more recent data:

At the class level, a majority of 9th- through 12th-grade classes were taught by teachers with either an in-field major, an in-field certification, or both. A majority of classes in English (81 percent), mathematics (75 percent), science (85 percent), social science (82 percent), all four foreign languages (French—88 percent, German—87 percent, Latin—70 percent, and Spanish—80 percent), and art/arts or crafts2 (91 percent) and music (97 percent) were taught by teachers with a major in the respective subject area. However, in classes taught in the science and social science subfields of Earth sciences, economics, geography, and government/civics, fewer than 50 percent of classes were taught by a teacher who held a major in the respective subfield.

Link

The data used in the book would all be pre-NCLB and the HQT requirements, including "attaining a bachelor's degree or better in the subject taught."

I will revise my statement in line with the data: A majority of teachers at the high school level majored in a subject they now teach.

 

[Travis]

Reason #1: Beginning teachers at the same district are paid roughly HALF as much, for doing the same work. Do you like being paid half as much as your peer for doing the same work?

Solution: pay all teachers a base salary of $95,000! Oh wait, that wasn't what you wanted was it?

Reason #2: $95,000 for 9 months work is really quite excessive. That's the reason there are so many applicants per opening.

Who are you to judge that it is? There are lots of professions where the person puts in only 9 months of work but makes good money. If the work during that 9 months is excessively stressful (and teaching is) and demands much more than a standard eight hour work day (and teaching does) why is this even an issue?

Reason #3: Education majors score lower on SAT scores, on average, than any other major. If for no other reason, this is sufficient to pay considerably less than $95,000 a year.

Even if true, so what?

You're quite right, of course. ALL CEOs earn "multimillion dollar salaries" and work "for a couple of hours" after which they "snort cocaine off of hookers."

You're a teacher, right?
You lecture to kids, right?
You hate people who "generalize," right?
And who "don't get their facts straight"?

Brilliant, sir. Absolutely brilliant.

Sucks to get a taste of your own medicine doesn't it?

Imagine thousands of private schools, all over America. As I said, the Clintons and the Gores and the Obamas all sent their kids to Sidwell Friends School.

Mostly because it was already set up to handle the added security.

IMAGINE that.....

But, hey, those Catholic schools, without teachers unions - bad, all bad.

If you want to send your kids to schools like that...go ahead. And enjoy paying extra for that added ideological indoctrination.

I really pity teachers, who seem to be too afraid to face the world without their union boss behind them, protecting them from all evils and injustices.

How on earth do the hundreds of millions of Americans survive without belonging to unions....

Most of them ride the coat tails of what unions do. I've seen teachers unions protect good teachers from being manhandled by a system that likes to scapegoat them.