Socialist Dem wingnuts march on Washington

[Pardalis]

Yes

So stop calling it socialism. Thanks.

 

[Praktik]

No.

 

[Pardalis]

I understand words don't have any meaning to the ideologues.

Suit yourself pinko.

 

[quixotecoyote]

I understand words don't have any meaning to the ideologues.

Some ideologues can't quote past the first word. Poor impoverished souls. I'd vote for a program to provide them enough context to eke out the point, but I'm afraid they'd think it was socialism and run away.

 

[Praktik]

I understand words don't have any meaning to the ideologues.

Suit yourself pinko.

Who are these ideologues? I don't like em either! Point em out to me so we can both take pleasure in mocking them!

 

[ProBonoShill]

Then why do you even give a crap whether Obama is a Democrat, a Socialist, or a Power Puff Girl.

I get people outside the US caring about his policies and what he is doing as president, but what party he affiliates with internally? why does that worry you so much?

because

Canadian politics mean little to anyone outside canada. The usa, however, affects the world...it is a global superpower, and what it does effects everyone, especially its younger brother to the north.

TAM

Pierre Trudeau addressing the National Press Club in Washington D.C. (1969):


As a Canadian I'm more interested in US politics than my own because the ups and downs of the US economy have a greater affect on my wallet than anything my government does.

Having said that, ProBonoShill is an interesting case. I live in Ontario but not near Brampton. In this neck of the woods you actually have to pay to watch Fox news. Do you get it for free ProBonoShill?

No, I'm required to pay for it here too, I declined to do so.

Your whole anti-socialist angle is interesting as well seeing as you live in a far more socialist country than the US

.

So because my country has more socialist tendencies, I'm therefore supposed to be more submissive to socialism?

A country complete with a brand new and beautiful socialism run hospital right in Brampton. Do you protest your new hospital ProBonoShill? Will you be flying to the US when you get sick

A long overdue hospital built with my tax dollars. The Brampton area is severely under served for the population it has.
Compare the number of hospitals Brampton currently has to a similar sized city in the U.S., tell me what you find.
I wish I could fly my father to the US, he's been waiting almost a year for a knee replacement. The fact is American hospitals and healthcare are far better than ours. Americans have the highest Cancer survival rate. Why is that?

http://www.proudtobecanadian.ca/

and this is your favourite site?

I think you should move south man, if you're spotting socialists in the Democratic party I wonder what you do for Canada, where you know, we have an unashamedly socialist party holding seats in Parliament..

Is your point the same as gph's? I'm supposed to approve of socialism because we have a few who managed to get elected? Incidentally the groups that help get these socialist elected are eerily similar to the ones who organized this rally.

>>>>>>Anecdote snipped

Perhaps ProBonoShill wants the USA to scrap any semblance of socialism, to try and bolster the economy in both countries, while he enjoys his government paid, and managed Health Care system.

As for myself, being a Canadian, the screams and cries of SOCIALISM! in the US really do make me laugh, because, frankly, it just isn't there.

Government paid? Really? Where does the government get this money? Do they pick it off a fictitious money tree? Do you pay my taxes Shalamar?
Until you do, don't pontificate about what I enjoy that the government pays for.

Especially since, you know, having a host of socialist policies, a true socialist party that has seats in federal parliament and has elected Premiers, and plenty of socialist ideas in the Liberal Party, the idea of socialism as bogeyman just doesn't carry any weight...

...except you know, with the odd exception of people like ProBonoShill who are rather curious instances to be honest.

Anyway, this is a big reason a lot of the modern red-scare in America evokes laughter in Canada and Europe - all of us are living in states with socialist policies no one is afraid to call socialist and socialist political parties no one is afraid to call socialist - in fact, being called socialist can be a vote-getter - not a vote-scarer-away-er...

Once again I''m not getting the reasoning, I'm supposed to like socialist ideas and politicians because I have some in my government?
And you're calling me curious?

 

[ProBonoShill]

Now back to the OP, it seems the Democratic Socialists of America were part of the march and they have clear links to the Democratic party which can be found here:

http://www.keywiki.org/index.php/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

Also it's evident that the groups organizing and promoting this event (link provided in a previous post) are democratic supporters and voters for the most part.

 

[Praktik]

Once again I''m not getting the reasoning, I'm supposed to like socialist ideas and politicians because I have some in my government?
And you're calling me curious?

No no, obviously you don't have to like socialism at all and are welcome to define yourself against it - just seems to me your style and approach mirrors that of some of our neighbours to the south, who without the exposure we have here in Canada, see socialism as a bogeyman instead of just say, a particular brand of politics they happen to disagree with.

 

[daredelvis]

A long overdue hospital built with my tax dollars. The Brampton area is severely under served for the population it has.
Compare the number of hospitals Brampton currently has to a similar sized city in the U.S., tell me what you find.

This is typical, "all government spending is a waste, except what is coming my way."

Americans have the highest Cancer survival rate. Why is that?

Because of the research conducted at institutions like MD Anderson Cancer Center. MD Anderson is part of the Texas state University of Texas system, and it is the largest recipient of socialist National Cancer Institute funds.

Damned Pinkos!


Hope cent scrut does not call me out for the use of bold.

Daredelvis

 

[daredelvis]

Now back to the OP, it seems the Democratic Socialists of America were part of the march and they have clear links to the Democratic party which can be found here:

http://www.keywiki.org/index.php/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

Also it's evident that the groups organizing and promoting this event (link provided in a previous post) are democratic supporters and voters for the most part.

Other than debunked right wing blogs, and a link to a New Zeland wiki, you can't come up with any substantial link to the Democratic party? And you refer to others as CT'ers... sad state of affairs.

Daredelvis

 

[DC]

Now back to the OP, it seems the Democratic Socialists of America were part of the march and they have clear links to the Democratic party which can be found here:

http://www.keywiki.org/index.php/Democratic_Socialists_of_America

Also it's evident that the groups organizing and promoting this event (link provided in a previous post) are democratic supporters and voters for the most part.

funny, your evidence to show the Democrats supported the socialist march. you link to something that shows that the DSA supported Obama, and not the other way around.

and why did they support him?

Had the U.S. a genuine multiparty system, neoliberal positions would be held by a centrist party, and DSA would be organizing as part of a left electoral force against it. Given the U.S.’s restrictive election laws, the only electoral fight possible against corporate domination has to happen in and around the Democratic Party, on the federal, state, and (allowing for the rare exception) county and city levels.
An Obama presidency will not on its own force legislation facilitating single-payer health care (at least at the federal level) or truly progressive taxation and major cuts in wasteful and unneeded defense spending. But if DSA and other democratic forces can work in the fall elections to increase the ranks of the Congressional Progressive and Black and La-tino caucuses, progressive legislation (backed by strong social movement mobilization) might well pass the next Congress.

http://www.dsausa.org/dl/Summer_2008.pdf

found that in your link, its one of their sources.

 

[Shalamar]

Government paid? Really? Where does the government get this money? Do they pick it off a fictitious money tree? Do you pay my taxes Shalamar?
Until you do, don't pontificate about what I enjoy that the government pays for.

Yes. Really. Government Paid. Because the government is who writes the cheques for the services you enjoy. Now, you do pay Taxes to the government, but you're not directly paying for the services.

Of course, you 'pay' less than an American does for healthcare, and you're not tied into any insurance plan. You don't have to worry about pre-existing conditions, you don't have to worry about health insurance if you're unemployed.

Do you really want the American System of Health Care services, vs. that of the rest of the 1st world?

 

[cwalner]

Yes. Really. Government Paid. Because the government is who writes the cheques for the services you enjoy. Now, you do pay Taxes to the government, but you're not directly paying for the services.

Keep your government hands off of my Medicare!

 

[davefoc]

You silly foreigners. We only have two politically relevant parties here. Democrats and Republicans. This dichotomy allows the word liberal to describe anything that is not 'conservative' and Republican, what ever that happens to be. I really have hard time pinning it down. So in the very big tent of liberals, socialists have a little table too. They don't have much going for them in the government or the tent, but neither do the greens or libertarians for that matter. And libertarians are really just there for the free pot.

Similarly there are bunch of other parties like the constitution party, and the non-party tea party, that all try to fit inside the little conservative tent. But appear to be running out of room all the time.

So it's a bit different than in europe. What in europe might be considered right-left, is here just liberal or conservative. We don't have the political pluralism that you enjoy.

I liked this answer. The word liberal is one of the most ambiguous in the English language. Its meaning varies with location, time, context and the individual speaker's personal interpretation of the word. But despite that daenku32 did a pretty good job of explaining the situation as I see it.

 

[ProBonoShill]

This is typical, "all government spending is a waste, except what is coming my way."

Yes that's exactly what I said.

Because of the research conducted at institutions like MD Anderson Cancer Center. MD Anderson is part of the Texas state University of Texas system, and it is the largest recipient of socialist National Cancer Institute funds.

Damned Pinkos!

So let me get this straight, you're in this thread desperately defending any link between the Democratic party and socialism, yet are now defending socialism by stating it's responsible for the success of the Anderson Cancer Center?

Other than debunked right wing blogs, and a link to a New Zeland wiki, you can't come up with any substantial link to the Democratic party? And you refer to others as CT'ers... sad state of affairs.

Daredelvis

So what they stated was wrong?

Care to point out where or do you want to continue the hand waving.

funny, your evidence to show the Democrats supported the socialist march. you link to something that shows that the DSA supported Obama, and not the other way around.

and why did they support him?



http://www.dsausa.org/dl/Summer_2008.pdf

found that in your link, its one of their sources.

So your admitting that socialists support the Democrats. Thanks.

Yes. Really. Government Paid. Because the government is who writes the cheques for the services you enjoy. Now, you do pay Taxes to the government, but you're not directly paying for the services.

Of course, you 'pay' less than an American does for healthcare, and you're not tied into any insurance plan. You don't have to worry about pre-existing conditions, you don't have to worry about health insurance if you're unemployed.

Do you really want the American System of Health Care services, vs. that of the rest of the 1st world?

I pay less? Really?

Evidence? This is JREF after all.

I know I pay far more taxes than my American counterpart, which is ridiculous considering I live in a country that has trillions of dollars in natural resources.



Yes I'd rather have U.S. healthcare, it's far better than ours, I'd do something about tort reform and those without coverage though.

 

[DC]

...

So your admitting that socialists support the Democrats. Thanks.

....

the DSA admit voting for him but do openly disagree with his capitalist politics............

 

[elbe]

So your admitting that socialists support the Democrats. Thanks.

The socialists probably consider the Dems political allies, but that doesn't equal support. Both major parties have lots of smaller parties that attach themselves for political expediency, but that certainly doesn't mean the major parties endorse each and every one of them.

 

[T.A.M.]

PBS:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Now Canada is not much better then the USA in the above...we are 30th, USA is 36th.

However, look at all of the European Countries ahead of both...look how high they are...now go look at what type of health care systems they have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_France

France, like other countries in Europe, has a system of universal health care largely financed by government through a system of national health insurance. In its 2000 assessment of world health care systems, the World Health Organization found that France provided the "best overall health care" in the world.[1] In 2005, France spent 11.2% of GDP on health care, or US$3,926 per capita, a figure much higher than the average spent by countries in Europe but less than in the US. Approximately 77% of health expenditures are covered by government.[2]

TAM

TAM

 

[Shalamar]

I pay less? Really?

Evidence? This is JREF after all.

I know I pay far more taxes than my American counterpart, which is ridiculous considering I live in a country that has trillions of dollars in natural resources.



Yes I'd rather have U.S. healthcare, it's far better than ours, I'd do something about tort reform and those without coverage though.

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0934556.html

USA: $6096 per capita
Canada: $3173 per capita.

Personally, I'd prefer a two tiered system. A base Health Care coverage for everyone, regardless of income, no refusal, but that can be supplemented by additional insurance. private rooms, less waiting times, access to perhaps experimental drugs. That sort of thing. A blending of the Canadian and US systems .. might work well.

 

[ProBonoShill]

PBS:

http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html

Now Canada is not much better then the USA in the above...we are 30th, USA is 36th.

However, look at all of the European Countries ahead of both...look how high they are...now go look at what type of health care systems they have.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_in_France



TAM

TAM

TAM, those rankings are 10 years old and I think you should research how they arrived at those rankings before giving them too much credence.

The U.S ranking slips considerably due to cost and access, not the quality of the care received.