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Continuation - Discussion of the Amanda Knox case

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Hi Kevin Lowe,
Your much welcome!
With what you wrote in mind I can easily see how it's important to keep 1's personal life down low...

I was curious that you wrote of copyright infringement though, (as I was too with PMF site admin "Michael" recent "fair useage" posting), for I had these same thoughts as I quoted, for debate purposes only, from Barbie Nadeau's book "Angel Face" in this last hour...

Was what I did by posting this passage for debate here on JREF copyright infringement?

Being a photographer also,
(who has had many people copy and paste a well known shark breaching photo I shot of a Great White Shark over here in L.A), I believe it is.
BUT I do so with the hope that others, who might be so inclined, will also purchase the book that I quoted from to learn more themselves,
so I always make it a point to give credit to the author...

Anyways, have a good day,
Aussie style, mate!
RWVBWL
 
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RWVBWL said:
Hi Kevin Lowe,
Your much welcome!
With what you wrote in mind I can easily see how it's important to keep 1's personal life down low...

I was curious that you wrote of copyright infringement though, (as I was too with PMF site admin "Michael" recent "fair useage" posting), for I had these same thoughts as I quoted, for debate purposes only, from Barbie Nadeau's book "Angel Face" in this last hour...

Was what I did by posting this passage for debate here on JREF copyright infringement?
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Not at all, as I understand it. If you'd posted the whole thing it would be a problem, and if you'd posted it without attributing it to the author that would be dodgy, but what you were doing is just fine.
 
Speaking of Personality Disorders

There are some very disturbing posts written by some lunatic who googled the name Kevin Lowe and obviously thinks it's real, at Perugia Shock. I find them really creepy, that this person would try to peer into someone's life and ridicule them. It's revealing of a very nasty streak.

I actually worry about the mental state of some of founders of two of the other boards. When Amanda Knox returns to the US, she will probably need protection from them.
 
RWVBWL said:
Greeting Charlie Wilkes, Kevin Lowe and others...
I have always been curious about something that I had read a long ago on Peruga Shock, wherein Frank Sfarzo had discussed Meredith Kercher having a 0.43 BAC.

Today I noticed that you both have written that Miss Kercher didn't drink any alcohol with her dinner that night. Previously I had just assumed that she must have had some leftover alcohol in her system from the night before.

However, I would like to share something with you that I re-read last night in Barbie Nadeau's book "Angel Face" on pages 161 +162:
" In the days right after the murder, there was talk of a Satanic ritual because of the Halloween paraphernalia found at the girls' villa and Raf's apartment. That hypothesis was soon discounted, however, and replaced with the idea of sex games gone wrong in a fog of drugs and alcohol. Unfortunately, no alcohol or drug testing was done immediately on Amanda, Raf, or Rudy, and Meredith's initial toxicology reports showed that she had had no more than a glass of wine. (Later toxicology reports that she may have been very drunk, but the prosecution wrote those off as bad forensics - they said her body had not been stored properly, so the blood alcohol levels were due to fermentation, not intoxication. As for Amanda and Raf, when they were finally arrested, on Nov. 6, only the slightest unidentifiable trace of narcotics was found thru hair samples - not even enough to identify the substance.)

Anyways, I posted this for 2 reasons, even after re-reading JREF page #107:
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showthread.php?p=6211917
since I had always been under the assumption that Miss Kercher had a 0.43 BAC due to having a glass of wine at some point in the day or still having some alcohol in her system from the night before, which would say to me that she must have been really, really drunk on Halloween or else her body just took forever to get rid of the alcohol in her system. With that thought in mind, I wondered if maybe her digestion was slower that normal too, which directly contradicts what many here on the innocentisti side, (of which I am a member too), have been recently discussing.

But "Angel Face" helped me put that idea to rest, for it just seems like another mistake was made,
in this case Miss Kercher's body was improperly stored after her death...

Another note that I would like to mention is from the passage that I just quoted from "Angel Face".
It does, in my mind at least, lay to rest some of today's discussion that AK and RF were high on coke at the time, unless 5 days is too long after a murder happened to test positive for that particular party substance...

Have a good one all,
RWVBWL
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Your getting BAC confused with grams/liter alcohol. It wasn't converted.
1gram/liter of alcohol = .1 % BAC

Meredith had 0.43grams/liter of alcohol which equals .043% BAC. Which means she could have legally operated a vehicle in Italy. Since Italy's BAC is .05%. The state I live in has a BAC level of .08%.

However, I'm not really sure whether the 0.043 grams/liter of alcohol was in her stomach or her blood.
 
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Mary_H said:
The pervasive principle you describe is paradoxical because it expresses utter disrespect for prisoners' rights. The famously humane Italian system gives each defendant the right to three trials, does not allow the defendant to waive his right to attorney, provides for short sentences, no death penalty, and the prisons are pretty nice.

Meanwhile, if the police want to take a prisoner's diary and leak it to the media, the attitude of the people seems to be, "That's what you get for being in prison." From my outsider's point of view, it looks like the purpose of this particular "pervasive principle" is to titillate and provide cautionary tales to the masses who are smart enough not to get themselves in the same predicament. Otherwise known as social engineering.

"Her correspondence can be equally subjected to reading and investigation, but not to censorship." Gee, what a relief. I am sure prisoners are eternally grateful for that anomalous bit of political generosity.
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Excellent post, Mary. I agree 100%.
 
Danceme said:
Just as they were able to tell that Meredith's body was moved sometime after she had died.

Sounds like an interesting book Charlie, I may check its availability.
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No, they were not. Massei presented a reconstruction of the crime which ruled out the prosecution's argument that ruled out Meredith's body had been moved "quite some time" after death, and as Mary_H pointed out, the T.O.D. was calculated on the presumption that her body was covered shortly after death. Presumably, the evidence presented in the closed sessions of the trial was not convincing.
 
Charlie Wilkes said:
It is a useful book to have on hand.

Where did anyone claim that livor showed Meredith's body being moved after death?
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In fact, quite the contrary. The autopsy report indicated livor mortis on the posterior (back) side of the body. This indicates that Meredith was laid out on her back either before or not long after death. This is the position in which her body was found.
 
Chris C said:
Your getting BAC confused with grams/liter alcohol. It wasn't converted.
1gram/liter of alcohol = .1 % BAC

Meredith had 0.43grams/liter of alcohol which equals .043% BAC. Which means she could have legally operated a vehicle in Italy. Since Italy's BAC is .05%. The state I live in has a BAC level of .08%.

However, I'm not really sure whether the 0.043 grams/liter of alcohol was in her stomach or her blood.
Click to expand...

It was a blood alcohol reading. It's about the equivalent of a medium glass of wine. And if Meredith died before 10pm on the 1st November, then it's consistent with one of two scenarios:

1) Meredith didn't have much to drink during the Halloween party the night before, had expelled all of this alcohol from her body, and then either had a couple of glasses of wine (or equivalent) before she set off to her friends' house on the afternoon of the 1st, or she had a glass of wine immediately upon her return to her own house at around 9pm.

2) Meredith had a very large amount of alcohol during the Halloween party the previous night, and had nothing to drink during the day/evening of the 1st. For this to be the case, Meredith's blood alcohol would have had to be around 0.28% at around 04.30 on the 1st (i.e. by the time she got home from the party), with normal alcohol dissipation patterns resulting in a residual 0.04 reading by 10pm on the 1st. A 0.28% reading would have rendered Meredith very drunk, with slurred speech and motor impairment, but is not in the realms of acute alcohol poisoning or serious threat.
 
Interesting article that hit my purple flag ⋔ alerts:

http://www.inviatospeciale.com/2010/09/misteri-scandali-stragi-e-informazione/

It appears from this that Italians are more divided than I was led to believe on the veracity of the case against Amanda and Raffaele.

A lot of criticism of the press. It seemed to me that the press played an active role on the side of the prosecution in the Kercher case. The "investigations" were sometimes just witness hunts for Mignini in my opinion. How often were these witnesses paid for their stories and how reliable have these stories been shown to be is a question that needs to be addressed. How reliable are the stories fed by the police to the press is another question and what is the motivation for leaking false information?

I didn't post a Google translation but one is available at PMF if you don't want to DIY
 
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I guess that Pepperdine was put in a bit of an awkward position, seeing as their director of public safety was recommending a flat-share between his daughter and a convicted murderer.
 
colonelhall said:
I guess that Pepperdine was put in a bit of an awkward position, seeing as their director of public safety was recommending a flat-share between his daughter and a convicted murderer.
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if he said something like 'I personally would be happy for my daughter to share a flat with Amanda knox because I don't believe she's guilty' this would be allowable surely?
 
Micheli:

Starting the investigations, the Public Prosecutor and the Judicial Police proceeded to reconstruct the movements of the girl in the last hours of life, including moving from the assumptions made by CT in medico-legal point of time of death, to be placed at a distance of not more than 2 or 3 hours after last meal, and likely to be understood happened around 23:00 on November 1, 2007.
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Borsini:
The time of death was placed with minimum waste and maximum of one hour, at 23.00 (ie, between the hours. 22.00 and 24.00 hours) of November 1, 2007; this, on the assumption that dinner between it and English friends found to be consumed at; 21.00 earlier, but, according to the GIP, this time could be anticipated timing arc between the hours of 21.00 to 23.00 is, given statements of Sophie Purton, that at 21.00 the dinner was finished, and at that time she Meredith-stood on the way home.
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Matteini:
From the first reading of a written summary prepared by dr. Lalli and deposited at the Public Prosecutor on 8.11.2007 concerning the necropsy findings on the body of Meredith Kercher appears that the injury had not affected the carotid for whom death was preceded by an agony quite slow, a fact which can be traced back in time the criminal acts with the result that they may fall between 21.30 and at 23.30 the day 1 November 2007, hours that can retreat from 20.30 to 22.30, if account is taken of consummation of dinner at a time prior to 21.00.
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Massei:
This court does not hold such a prospect to be sustainable.
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Hendricks case

Stilicho,

Once you are through answering my dozen or so comments directed toward you (6663), here is another question for you to chew on. Do you accept the court's reasoning in the Hendricks case with respect to stomach contents? If so, what conclusion do you draw with respect to this case?
 
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Halides, speaking of answering questions, there are some great ones posed by Michael, Fiona, and others on page 19 over at PMF. They also pointed out some inconsistencies in some of the arguments here. I don't know who is right or wrong in those arguments, but what they said sounds reasonable. If this is against any rules here, please ignore this request, thank you
 
RoseMontague said:
Interesting article that hit my purple flag ⋔ alerts:

http://www.inviatospeciale.com/2010/09/misteri-scandali-stragi-e-informazione/

It appears from this that Italians are more divided than I was led to believe on the veracity of the case against Amanda and Raffaele.

A lot of criticism of the press. It seemed to me that the press played an active role on the side of the prosecution in the Kercher case. The "investigations" were sometimes just witness hunts for Mignini in my opinion. How often were these witnesses paid for their stories and how reliable have these stories been shown to be is a question that needs to be addressed. How reliable are the stories fed by the police to the press is another question and what is the motivation for leaking false information?

I didn't post a Google translation but one is available at PMF if you don't want to DIY
Click to expand...

I saw the translation, I dont see any mention of Raffaele or Amanda anywhere, unless I missed it
 
Solange305 said:
Halides, speaking of answering questions, there are some great ones posed by Michael, Fiona, and others on page 19 over at PMF. They also pointed out some inconsistencies in some of the arguments here. I don't know who is right or wrong in those arguments, but what they said sounds reasonable. If this is against any rules here, please ignore this request, thank you
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I have a hard time with this as well, Solange. It is hard to understand what the limits of exchange are. For example, Michael over there quotes the article I listed above saying it doesn't even discuss the Kercher case then provides a Google translation that mentions doubts about the objectivity of the sentences of Amanda and Raffaele. Go figure.
 
Solange305 said:
I saw the translation, I dont see any mention of Raffaele or Amanda anywhere, unless I missed it
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you missed it

Even the 'great' killings have remained shrouded in the mists dividing the citizens into opposing fans, because the results were often opaque process: from 'Montesi case' to the judicial process that is involving Amanda Knox and Raffaele Sollecito doubts about the objectivity of sentences far outweigh the certainty about the real perpetrators of the crimes.
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