Nuke the damn oil leak!!

[Darth Rotor]

what is 100 million gallons of oil going to do to the world's oceans and wildlife?

are we not going to be able to go to the beach for 15 years?

This oil spill will effect the beaches of the Gulf Coast somewhat. Not sure for how long.

The Pemex spill in 1979 was a non trivial mess. I came across some of the brown gunk from that on Padre Island beaches in 1981.

The beaches were still a place you could visit, but the sand was more tan than before.

As to "for 15 years" your deliberate stupidity ought to make you feel guilty.

DR

 

[Tricky]

A lot of algae are killed by contact with oil. And those submerged oil plumes kill any fish that get into them.

It will kill a lot of fish, no doubt. But even with their small brains, fish, at the edge of the spill, will swim the other way, not into the spill.

There is the possibility that they will hit the spawning grounds of the Atlantic cod. Bye-bye to that already highly endangered species.

As I said, the greatest threat is to endangered species. I do not want endangered species to die. I'm an environmentalist. But from what I can tell, Atlantic Cod do not spawn in the Gulf of Mexico, and in fact never get near it. This is a red herring.

There is also the possibility of a massive climate change just from the methane released by the spill. If the oceans get too warm, that's that.

Do you think that the change to the climate would have been less if the oil had been burned, releasing carbon dioxide? The amount of methane released by this spill is probably less than Mauna Loa releases every day.

There are already dead zones in the Delta due to increased bio-loads, mostly pig manure.

Well gosh. How will we tell those dead zones from the oil spill dead zones? Yes, there are environmental problems everywhere. Many much much worse than this. But of course, they're not as ugly to look at. But again, I do not minimize the severe effect of this spill. Neither do I predict massive extinctions. Depopulations in certain areas, yes. Hopefully they will recover quickly.

What species have rebounded in the Ixtoc area?

Pretty much all of them, though I haven't done an extensive study. Just a little googling.

And the oil is right on the surface where the larval forms of most crustacea spend their naupal stage.

That's one reason why dispersants are used. It moves the oil off the surface.

Putting dispersant in the oil puts oil over the corals. This kills them. Oysters and clams are dead where it hits.

Well damn, Lefty. You don't want it on the top and you don't want it on the bottom. Hell, if I could wave my magic wand and make it disappear, you know I would. But there it is and we have to do the best things we can to keep it from doing the least damage as possible.

But note that there are no major coral reefs until you get to the south part of Florida. It's not there yet. Maybe it won't get there, or by the time it does, it will be widely dispersed. We all hope for that.

However, note that the well is in deep water. If dispersants are used to sink the oil to the bottom, then the bottom at that point is far far below the point where coral reefs can grow (which is only within a few feet of the surface). In fact, most planktonic life (including larval fish, crabs, shrimp etc.) is near the surface. So you ought to be hoping the dispersants work if you want the least possible damage.

You sound like you want to criticize anything that is done. I understand your anger, but believe me, everybody wants this to cause the least damage possible and they're working very hard to effect that. Crying that it never should have happened is all well and good, but it doesn't FIX anything.

 

[rwguinn]

<Snip...

You sound like you want to criticize anything that is done. I understand your anger, but believe me, everybody wants this to cause the least damage possible and they're working very hard to effect that. Crying that it never should have happened is all well and good, but it doesn't FIX anything.

It is a common management practice and belief, everywhere, that finding the proper person(s) to blame is a more vital solution than actually fixing the problem.
Politicians are especially adept at this. Lay people are extremely enthusiastic at it, although often less competent.
Guanofrentic ignorami simply scream "Hang 'em all and let god sort it out"

 

[Howie Felterbush]

It is a common management practice and belief, everywhere, that finding the proper person(s) to blame is a more vital solution than actually fixing the problem.
Politicians are especially adept at this. Lay people are extremely enthusiastic at it, although often less competent.
Guanofrentic ignorami simply scream "Hang 'em all and let god sort it out"

This is a mostly unfunny thread about a very unfunny problem, but "guanofrentic ignorami" may be the funniest thing I'll read all day.

Thanks.

 

[KingMerv00]

Well, he DiD say "worst case scenario".

As far as we're concerned, that would be it.

No no no. The WORST case scenario is that the leak somehow undoes the fabric of space and destroys the mulitverse.

Hold me, I'm scared.

 

[leftysergeant]

It will kill a lot of fish, no doubt. But even with their small brains, fish, at the edge of the spill, will swim the other way, not into the spill.

If they know it is there. Usually, they don't.

But from what I can tell, Atlantic Cod do not spawn in the Gulf of Mexico, and in fact never get near it. This is a red herring.

The Gulf Stream runs past this leak. It is going to pick up submerged oil and dispersant and take it to the North Altantic. Bye-bye Atlantic cod.

Well gosh. How will we tell those dead zones from the oil spill dead zones?

The oilled ones will be more widespread and will smell worse.

Well damn, Lefty. You don't want it on the top and you don't want it on the bottom. Hell, if I could wave my magic wand and make it disappear, you know I would. But there it is and we have to do the best things we can to keep it from doing the least damage as possible.

I want it on the surface where it can be measured and skimmed off. You can't get it off the bottom at a thousand feet or out of the middle of the water column over thousands of square miles.

But note that there are no major coral reefs until you get to the south part of Florida. It's not there yet. Maybe it won't get there, or by the time it does, it will be widely dispersed. We all hope for that.

You are unduly optimistic.

If dispersants are used to sink the oil to the bottom, then the bottom at that point is far far below the point where coral reefs can grow (which is only within a few feet of the surface). In fact, most planktonic life (including larval fish, crabs, shrimp etc.) is near the surface. So you ought to be hoping the dispersants work if you want the least possible damage.

No. There are strong currents down there, and the plumes of gunk are not dirigible.

 

[BenBurch]

You make a big dead zone. But not one that rounds the seven seas. An economic and ecological disaster, but not a threat to Life On Earth.

 

[leftysergeant]

You make a big dead zone. But not one that rounds the seven seas. An economic and ecological disaster, but not a threat to Life On Earth.

Do you know exactly how much oil it takes to make the ocean non-viable, and how much is in the reservoir? Note also that the methane reduces the ability of sea water to absorb oxygen or CO2. Fish can't breathe methane.

There may be enough methane alone to kill the Gulf and then the collapse of the food chain will start taking out other species beyond. Then we get more methane.

And what if the clooapse of the rock over the reservoir causes other faults to open? This is rather close to the edge of the shelf.

 

[Tricky]

If they know it is there. Usually, they don't.

What? Fish lack sensory organs?

The Gulf Stream runs past this leak. It is going to pick up submerged oil and dispersant and take it to the North Altantic. Bye-bye Atlantic cod.

The Gulf stream mostly bypasses the Gulf of Mexico, and it covers a very wide area. I'm not saying there is no danger, but you're really invoking the butterfly effect as a certainty rather than a possibility.

I want it on the surface where it can be measured and skimmed off. You can't get it off the bottom at a thousand feet or out of the middle of the water column over thousands of square miles.

You sound like you're more interested in measuring it so you can use the numbers in court than than you are in keeping it from killing anything, because the surface is where it will do the most damage. Do you really care about the environment at all, or do you just hate oil companies?

 

[Tricky]

And what if the clooapse of the rock over the reservoir causes other faults to open? This is rather close to the edge of the shelf.

Please don't embarrass yourself more by trying to talk about geology. You don't have a clue about the tectonics or the fault patterns in the Gulf of Mexico.

 

[BenBurch]

An oil reservoir with some exceptions is nearly all rock. Porous rock. The oil is in the interstices. They usually cannot merely collapse.

 

[Tricky]

Just to add a bit of gallows humor. Understand this is JUST a joke.

"I know there's an oil spill, but look on the bright side. Now your shrimp come oiled and ready to fry. But this Nuke the Well stuff? What the hell? You want us to cook them for you too?"

 

[KingMerv00]

I repeat...

Please provide evidence that the rig well in question has enough oil to kill everything in the ocean.

 

[Meadmaker]

This is a red herring.

And those are in no way an endangered species.


As I said on the other subforum, you are one of those evolutionary geologists. How do you expect to be taken seriously?


One of the worst aspects of this spill is the hype that is surrounding it. Sure, it's bad, but how bad is it really? Some of the coverage reads like a bad movie on the sci-fi channel.

Movie plot inside spoiler:

I can see it now. Out on the oil rig, a concerned, and surprisingly handsome oil rig worker furrows his brow. He has been asked to do some "routine maintenance" on the blowout preventer, but the instructions don't match the print. A foreman type comes over and says, "I don't care what you think. Mr. Schmuck says do it!" Off in the control area of the rig, a grey haired man in an expensive suit nods. The worker starts to do the job, but after a sleepless night refuses. The man in the suit is seen pointing and waving, and getting into his helicopter. The foreman informs Mr. Handsome. "You're fired. There's a boat leaving the rig. Get on it." As the boat pulls away, suddenly a fireball erupts. He looks on in horror.

On shore, he sees the television reports. Mr. Schmuck, in an even more expensive suit, is holding a press conference, describing the tragic events that occurred when a flatulent Sperm Whale came too near the rig, and set off an explosion, despite the fact that all safety precautions had been followed and no one issued any orders to tamper with any safety equipment to release more oil and increase profits. Something doesn't seem right to the hero, as he sits in a New Orleans bar drinking, a 26 year old female engineer with extremely clear skin and slightly wavy hair, who happens to be an expert in blowout preventers, is looking concerned. Global warming was reducing the supply of high fiber plankton in the Sperm Whale diet. Something about the Big Petroleum executive's story doesn't sound right. Even so, the blowout preventer should have been more than enough to prevent a calamity. When she says that aloud, the male lead tells her his story.

Over breakfast the next morning, they learn about "a small oil leak" from the well. Her fears are realized. This is a major ecological disaster,and Big Petroleum is covering it up. They have leaflets printed and show up at the Congressman's office, but he doesn't want to talk to them. However, out of their sight, but in view of the camera, the Congressman listens to a voice mail. “Bob, this is Dick Schmuck. This oil spill thing could really cause us a problem, and we might have to try some really radical stuff to make sure that we end this situation without causing panic, because we know that would happen if the press got hold of this. Can we count on your support at the Congressional hearing? Of course, we know that America needs far sighted Congressmen who understand that sometimes too much knowledge can be dangerous. If you could help us out, I’m sure we would recognize your contributions to American life in November, in a non quid pro quo sort of way.”

At the Congressional hearing, some Congressmen want an immediate investigation, but Mr. Schmuck says now isn’t the time for fingerpointing, and he presents his radical plan. A nuclear bomb will be used to seal off the leak. Congressman Left asks, “Won’t that obliterate all evidence of the cause of the leak?” Mr. Schmuck says, “Regrettably, yes, but we can’t be worried about that right now. We just want what’s in the best interests of the Puffins.” Some Congressman points out that there are no Puffins in the Gulf of Mexico, and Schmuck replies, “And there never will be unless we do something right now! Now are you going to let us fix this problem, or are we going to talk about stupid waterfowl all day!”

The blonde engineer is very worried. She doesn’t think this plan will work, and thinks it is part of a coverup. As they watch on TV, the unthinkable happens. A Ron Howard wannabe director shows a closeup of the beginnings of the chain reaction inside the bomb, and a cutaway of the drill hole. When the bomb explodes, the holeh expands to the size of Connecticut, and starts spewing oil with tremendous force, forming a gusher that is visible above the sea all the way from shore. As thick, black, goo covers the sea floor all around the world, the oil rig worker realizes there is only one way to save the world! At the renewable energy center, there are windmills for energy generation. He can rig a pump that can pump the oil into holding ponds, where it can be burned. Normally, the windmills wouldn’t be strong enough, but there is a category VI hurricane coming through. As wind and rain threaten to pull him from the top of the very tall tower, the oil rig worker rigs the pumps, despite winds so strong that his t-shirt is destroyed, completely exposing his pectoral muscles. The engineer worries that global warming will ensue, but the oil rig worker notes that there are also biodiesel producing algae in the ponds next door, who will consume the carbon dioxide and provide abundant, safe, renewable energy.

The oil rig worker and engineer are married, and the movie closes with federal investigators serving a search warrant for maintenance records to Mr. Schmuck.

Coming soon to a late night movie near you.

 

[KingMerv00]

And those are in no way an endangered species.


As I said on the other subforum, you are one of those evolutionary geologists. How do you expect to be taken seriously?


One of the worst aspects of this spill is the hype that is surrounding it. Sure, it's bad, but how bad is it really? Some of the coverage reads like a bad movie on the sci-fi channel.

Movie plot inside spoiler:

I can see it now. Out on the oil rig, a concerned, and surprisingly handsome oil rig worker furrows his brow. He has been asked to do some "routine maintenance" on the blowout preventer, but the instructions don't match the print. A foreman type comes over and says, "I don't care what you think. Mr. Schmuck says do it!" Off in the control area of the rig, a grey haired man in an expensive suit nods. The worker starts to do the job, but after a sleepless night refuses. The man in the suit is seen pointing and waving, and getting into his helicopter. The foreman informs Mr. Handsome. "You're fired. There's a boat leaving the rig. Get on it." As the boat pulls away, suddenly a fireball erupts. He looks on in horror.

On shore, he sees the television reports. Mr. Schmuck, in an even more expensive suit, is holding a press conference, describing the tragic events that occurred when a flatulent Sperm Whale came too near the rig, and set off an explosion, despite the fact that all safety precautions had been followed and no one issued any orders to tamper with any safety equipment to release more oil and increase profits. Something doesn't seem right to the hero, as he sits in a New Orleans bar drinking, a 26 year old female engineer with extremely clear skin and slightly wavy hair, who happens to be an expert in blowout preventers, is looking concerned. Global warming was reducing the supply of high fiber plankton in the Sperm Whale diet. Something about the Big Petroleum executive's story doesn't sound right. Even so, the blowout preventer should have been more than enough to prevent a calamity. When she says that aloud, the male lead tells her his story.

Over breakfast the next morning, they learn about "a small oil leak" from the well. Her fears are realized. This is a major ecological disaster,and Big Petroleum is covering it up. They have leaflets printed and show up at the Congressman's office, but he doesn't want to talk to them. However, out of their sight, but in view of the camera, the Congressman listens to a voice mail. “Bob, this is Dick Schmuck. This oil spill thing could really cause us a problem, and we might have to try some really radical stuff to make sure that we end this situation without causing panic, because we know that would happen if the press got hold of this. Can we count on your support at the Congressional hearing? Of course, we know that America needs far sighted Congressmen who understand that sometimes too much knowledge can be dangerous. If you could help us out, I’m sure we would recognize your contributions to American life in November, in a non quid pro quo sort of way.”

At the Congressional hearing, some Congressmen want an immediate investigation, but Mr. Schmuck says now isn’t the time for fingerpointing, and he presents his radical plan. A nuclear bomb will be used to seal off the leak. Congressman Left asks, “Won’t that obliterate all evidence of the cause of the leak?” Mr. Schmuck says, “Regrettably, yes, but we can’t be worried about that right now. We just want what’s in the best interests of the Puffins.” Some Congressman points out that there are no Puffins in the Gulf of Mexico, and Schmuck replies, “And there never will be unless we do something right now! Now are you going to let us fix this problem, or are we going to talk about stupid waterfowl all day!”

The blonde engineer is very worried. She doesn’t think this plan will work, and thinks it is part of a coverup. As they watch on TV, the unthinkable happens. A Ron Howard wannabe director shows a closeup of the beginnings of the chain reaction inside the bomb, and a cutaway of the drill hole. When the bomb explodes, the holeh expands to the size of Connecticut, and starts spewing oil with tremendous force, forming a gusher that is visible above the sea all the way from shore. As thick, black, goo covers the sea floor all around the world, the oil rig worker realizes there is only one way to save the world! At the renewable energy center, there are windmills for energy generation. He can rig a pump that can pump the oil into holding ponds, where it can be burned. Normally, the windmills wouldn’t be strong enough, but there is a category VI hurricane coming through. As wind and rain threaten to pull him from the top of the very tall tower, the oil rig worker rigs the pumps, despite winds so strong that his t-shirt is destroyed, completely exposing his pectoral muscles. The engineer worries that global warming will ensue, but the oil rig worker notes that there are also biodiesel producing algae in the ponds next door, who will consume the carbon dioxide and provide abundant, safe, renewable energy.

The oil rig worker and engineer are married, and the movie closes with federal investigators serving a search warrant for maintenance records to Mr. Schmuck.

Coming soon to a late night movie near you.

As I said in the other thread:

If disaster movies have taught me anything, this conventional method will go horribly wrong. In the end, we will have to send a ragtag bunch of misfits to the bottom of the ocean with a bomb and a prototype sub. Obama should start looking for:

1) A rugged rig expert.
2) A loose cannon rookie driller
3) A black geologist
4) A sexy female marine biologist
5) The wizened sub inventor who is "too old for this ****"
6) A loveable wisecracking child who stows away on board
7) A sarcastic greedy corporate executive to "keep an eye on things"

1, 3, 5, and 7 should not plan to return. 2 and 4 should start picking out curtains together.

 

[Meadmaker]

As I said in the other thread:

Incredible. Two nearly identical plots invented independently. I hadn't even seen your suggestion! What are the odds? In an incredible coincidence we just happened to come up with extraordinarily similar ideas.

Obviously, we have a psychic link, and are entitled to the million dollar reward.

I think you are right about having the female lead be a marine biologist instead of an engineer, though. I liked the engineer type because it made the idea seem even more ridiculous because there are so few young, sexy, female, engineers who are subject matter experts in oil drilling it showed the tremendous strides being made by women in traditionally male dominated fields, but the marine biology side would be "softer", and have more opportunities to include oil covered ocean life.

 

[trvlr2]

No no no. The WORST case scenario is that the leak somehow undoes the fabric of space and destroys the mulitverse.

Hold me, I'm scared.

Ummm....Pretty much the same result as the former, as far as I can see.
What's the universe to ya, if ya can't be there?

So, let's start listing effects according to probability....
1. Undoing the fabric of space-time----highly unlikely.
2. Lefty's end-of-the-world scenario--slightly less unlikely.
3. A whole lot of people jobless,region-wide; nation-wide, a terrific financial crunch at a bad time, and pretty ugly environmental damage------100% probable.

Interestingly enough, BP has paid one damage check, a small amount, to some people.(In my area.) Second checks are not forthcoming, as yet.

On the bright side, gasoline went down 7 cents a gallon.

 

[PogoPedant]

No no no. The WORST case scenario is that the leak somehow undoes the fabric of space and destroys the mulitverse.

Hold me, I'm scared.

I was going to say that the worst-case scenario surely would involve R'lyeh rising on a jet of oil (blasphemous, impossible oil), but yours is worse long-term.

 

[lionking]

Lefty, you should really learn where the smilies are.


Unless you're really serious.......

 

[Cactus Wren]

leftysergeant, this is a few days old and a bit off topic, but I just wanted to say that

coproations

is the best typo since a particularly annoying individual of my acquaintance urged me to check out the new Livejournal he was "ruinning".