Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

[WildCat]

Lets just assume for a second that the blockade is illegal and stopping the boats in international waters is illegal, and that Palestine has its own waters that the boats can legitimately enter without going through Israel's.

Assume those points.

Sure. Let's assume that there's herds of unicorns prancing across the steppes of Asia while we're at it, just to keep the theme going.

Now tell me, what should people who want humanitarian supplies to be delivered to palestine do?

Take it to Ashdod.

The UN reports have all confirmed that more supplies are needed than are currently being delivered, and that Israel blocks movement of any supplies that can be used for construction.

However will Hamas manage to build their bunkers?

 

[IDB87]

How do you know this?

The activists successfully detained soldiers. They didn't murder them.

I suppose you're right, they weren't murdered. They were just tossed to the lower decks and beaten with clubs and chains. Not the same thing, I know, but it's certainly brutal.

The soldiers in the helicopter don't have the luxury of foresight. At the moment, their fellow soldiers lives were endanger, and they acted.

 

[fallout]

Well, she claims to have been on the third floor, so she was probably looking out of a window and could not see the top deck. She says the ships were firing, not the soldiers above deck. What were they firing? Their main guns, or some smaller caliber gun? There is a big difference between the two, and sound quite distinct compared to one another.

Does anyone else say the Israeli -ships- were shooting? Maybe they were warning shots.

She doesn't know.

No, she said they shot, in bad english but did. I don't think she heard paintball shots. But if they were just shooting away from the ships to affect their morale, that would be nice of Israel to make public for us to see. IT's all very fuzzy, lot's of rumors and conflicting numbers and etc. It's still all covert, the israeli way. It's frightening how Israel can get along with it. Shows how much power does a more than cozy relationship with U.S can yield you.

 

[a_unique_person]

Who would have murdered the Commandos.

Vicious cycle, this hatred thing.

Correct, if they had just done what the people on other boats did, they would have just copped a beating.

 

[IDB87]

No, she said they shot, in bad english but did. I don't think she heard paintball shots. But if they were just shooting away from the ships to affect their morale, that would be nice of Israel to make public for us to see. IT's all very fuzzy, lot's of rumors and conflicting numbers and etc. It's still all covert, the israeli way. It's frightening how Israel can get along with it. Shows how much power does a more than cozy relationship with U.S can yield you.

No, she says quite clearly that the SHIPS were shooting. Right before she does she's numbering how many she saw, and what they were doing. She has a good enough grasp of the English language to differentiate between an inanimate object and a human being.

 

[WildCat]

Better not say that too loud, Likud reserves the right to attack if the Palestinians declare themselves to be a state.

Likud has an army?

 

[a_unique_person]

Yes. They did. As they were part of a blockade running flotilla giving support to a genocidal government, I have no problem with that. I'd be quite interested if you could show this is unreasonable by pointing out previous blockade interceptions where the interceptees where allowed to film the proceedings.

As Israel released its video of the incident, and no other credible evidence has been presented to suggest it's altered, misleading, or incomplete in the relevant details, I'm very comfortable calling that transparent.

I repeat, they removed the means of providing any other evidence. If they had nothing to hide, why did they take all the cameras and notes from reporters?

 

[IDB87]

Correct, if they had just done what the people on other boats did, they would have just copped a beating.

Again, these beatings took place after the fighting on the MM.

 

[quixotecoyote]

They give me transparency? Come on , that's a laugh. Expose my prejudice then, once you touched upon the subject.

Your prejudice is exposed when you first claim you want Israel to be transparent, then when they release actual video of the event in question, you complain it's propaganda because it doesn't support your preconcieved notions of Israelis as bloodthristy agressors and the activists as noble martyrs.

Instead we see the activists attacking soldiers as they board the ship.

You've just got the wrong end of the stick on this one. There's no way you can rationally make the argument the the soldiers used excessive force, that the activists were peaceful, or that Israel did anything wrong in the enforcement of the blockade.

The only thing you have a shot at is arguing against the blockade itself. And since the powers in conflict on either side of that blockade are a democracy with a record of respect for human rights vs a theocracy with dreams of genocide, I'm very comfortable on which side I support.

It's one of the most glaring failings of the American left that they've thrown in with the side most antithetical to our/their supposed ideals.

 

[fallout]

I'd be quite interested if you could show this is unreasonable by pointing out previous blockade interceptions where the interceptees where allowed to film the proceedings.

That's not the point, if it happened before or not. But it's a rogue act, an act of someone who is affraid of information being published. It's a position of trying to manipulate the event as much as possible to make it look as they like to paint it.

As Israel released its video of the incident, and no other credible evidence has been presented to suggest it's altered, misleading, or incomplete in the relevant details, I'm very comfortable calling that transparent.

Credible evidence about being misleading? I posted a frickin link of a eyewitness saying they have it all documented , and the Israeli were filming the whole time, plus the jacking of everyone's camera. They aren't helping themselves as not to be in the worst standing as possible with the international comunity. One blunder after the other shows how prepotent and arrogant is this bibi government. And it's being "bailout" by the cozy lobbyist relationship with US congress.

 

[quixotecoyote]

I repeat, they removed the means of providing any other evidence. If they had nothing to hide, why did they take all the cameras and notes from reporters?

That's rich. In order to show they have nothing to hide, they need to let the crew of the pro-Hamas propaganda fleet record and distribute their take on the matter? Pull the other one.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Credible evidence about being misleading? I posted a frickin link of a eyewitness saying they have it all documented , and the Israeli were filming the whole time, plus the jacking of everyone's camera. They aren't helping themselves as not to be in the worst standing as possible with the international comunity. One blunder after the other shows how prepotent and arrogant is this bibi government. And it's being "bailout" by the cozy lobbyist relationship with US congress.

Yes you have a link to an eyewitness statement from a member of the pro-Hamas propaganda fleet. I have a video showing those people attacking soldiers as they boarded the vessel.

I win.

Please feel free to continue ignoring the request to show enemy propagandists being allowed to keep their materials in previous blockade interceptions.

 

[WildCat]

The point I was making earlier is that Israel doesnt recognise palestine as a state, and it cant have its cake and eat it. If it wants the law of armed conflict between states to apply, it must recognise palestines existance and right to self-determination and territorial integrity.

There is no "law of armed conflict between states", the LOAC apply to belligerants in an armed conflict. That one or both may or may not be a state is completely irrelevant.

 

[a_unique_person]

Likud has an army?

When it's in power, it makes the policy. That policy seems to have no room for palestinians.

 

[a_unique_person]

Yes you have a link to an eyewitness statement from a member of the pro-Hamas propaganda fleet.

Proof that they are pro-Hamas? One can think that the Gazans need food because they are suffering malnutrition without supporting Hamas. (which I don't).

 

[a_unique_person]

That's rich. In order to show they have nothing to hide, they need to let the crew of the pro-Hamas propaganda fleet record and distribute their take on the matter? Pull the other one.

Reporters are all pro Hamas

 

[quixotecoyote]

When it's in power, it makes the policy. That policy seems to have no room for palestinians.

I disagree with the Likud position to keep Palestine as a semi-autonomous state and support a two-state solution, but it's a misrepresentation to say that their policy has 'no room for Palestinians.'

Listen to the chanting activists on the flotilla to hear what wanting a population gone sounds like.

 

[fallout]

Your prejudice is exposed when you first claim you want Israel to be transparent, then when they release actual video of the event in question, you complain it's propaganda because it doesn't support your preconcieved notions of Israelis as bloodthristy agressors and the activists as noble martyrs.

Instead we see the activists attacking soldiers as they board the ship.

You've just got the wrong end of the stick on this one. There's no way you can rationally make the argument the the soldiers used excessive force, that the activists were peaceful, or that Israel did anything wrong in the enforcement of the blockade.

The only thing you have a shot at is arguing against the blockade itself. And since the powers in conflict on either side of that blockade are a democracy with a record of respect for human rights vs a theocracy with dreams of genocide, I'm very comfortable on which side I support.

It's one of the most glaring failings of the American left that they've thrown in with the side most antithetical to our/their supposed ideals.

LEt's set the record straight here, you by attempting to expose my "prejudice", not only exposes yours but build the entire zionist propaganda, point by point, perfectly in accordance to the criminals who ordered a plunder in international waters. I know the activists have some blood boiling when they feel this arrogance onto their own skins. And I don't dispute that they wanted above all, to expose the stupidity of the blockade. You again by repeating the fed propaganda, forgot to mention again that they only released the bits of film that helped building up their case.

Poor jewish people (no sarcasm), under this nazi-like regime of bibi and his gang. It doesnt help their case against being targeted by racial profiling, which I am very aware of and not part of it, but millions and millions around the world tend to become anti-semite because of the irresponsibility and criminal policies of this government.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Reporters are all pro Hamas

Ahh I see the problem, you're reading the posts that exist solely in your head while I'm reading the ones that exist in this thread. Since I don't have access to your inner thoughts, I'm afraid further discussion will be impossible until you change your behavior.

 

[applecorped]

LEt's set the record straight here, you by attempting to expose my "prejudice", not only exposes yours but build the entire zionist propaganda, point by point, perfectly in accordance to the criminals who ordered a plunder in international waters. I know the activists have some blood boiling when they feel this arrogance onto their own skins. And I don't dispute that they wanted above all, to expose the stupidity of the blockade. You again by repeating the fed propaganda, forgot to mention again that they only released the bits of film that helped building up their case.

Poor jewish people (no sarcasm), under this nazi-like regime of bibi and his gang. It doesnt help their case against being targeted by racial profiling, which I am very aware of and not part of it, but millions and millions around the world tend to become anti-semite because of the irresponsibility and criminal policies of this government.