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Merged Israel Attacks Palestinian Aid Flotilla, According To Reports

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IDB87 said:
It seems you have already made up your mind.

JJ posted a video in which everyone was saying 'people are injured' and you're sold without seeing, hearing, or even knowing what the injury was, or even how it happened.
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There is a problem, of course, in that reporters had all their equipment taken off them to prevent them presenting what they saw.
 
bit_pattern said:
I've seen footage that contradicts the IDF chronology
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Link?

bit_pattern said:
I find i interesting that th IDF released only a very short video
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Actually, the IDF released 5 fairly long videos. They are linked earlier in this thread.

bit_pattern said:
why haven't they released footage from before they boarded and after the scuffle, because footage I've seen from after the scuffle you can still hear gunfire in the background.
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You call what is seen in those videos a "scuffle"? LOL!
 
a_unique_person said:
There is a problem, of course, in that reporters had all their equipment taken off them to prevent them presenting what they saw.
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Just going by the video JJ posted, there was a span of a half an hour from the initial report of injuries until the end of the video. Two soldiers were captured in the meantime, and many people were doing (almost) interviews and reports. No mind to get a glimpse of these injuries?
 
IDB87 said:
What are you on about? The Commandos had sidearms, but they went in with paintball guns and non-lethal weapons like stun guns and tazers. Only when three or so of the first commandos on the ship were beaten did they use live ammunition on the activists, and that was from the second helicopter.

From JihadJanes link:

Andre Abu-Khalil, Al Jazeera cameraman,

"First they [the Israelis] tried to come by helicopter and tried to come down on the main deck. But the Turkish people were gathering on the rooftop and they managed to grab three of the soldiers, which led to a second helicopter to come and start shooting live bullets on the people."
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Yeah I seen it yesterday. Some others though, gave interview today reporting that they shot before landing. And I don't know if they would be able to hear if it was done with paintball guns from motor boats or helicopters, it just makes no sense. Now if Israel would be more transparent about what really happened, would help greatly.

Look: http://www.youtube.com/user/russiatoday?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/8/k1sH_RE4CY0 here we have an account of one of the crew members. Fine , you may think she is a liar, but that will be you.

At any rate I have to say that it is the very least silly to assert that the shootings were made from guns taken from Israeli soldiers. That's kinda kooky, if you believe that , I don't know what to say.
 
IDB87 said:
Act of war against whom? Stop tugging at my heart strings.
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Turkey

The Legal Position on the Israeli Attack

"A word on the legal position, which is very plain. To attack a foreign flagged vessel in international waters is illegal. It is not piracy, as the Israeli vessels carried a military commission. It is rather an act of illegal warfare.

Because the incident took place on the high seas does not mean however that international law is the only applicable law. The Law of the Sea is quite plain that, when an incident takes place on a ship on the high seas (outside anybody's territorial waters) the applicable law is that of the flag state of the ship on which the incident occurred. In legal terms, the Turkish ship was Turkish territory.

There are therefore two clear legal possibilities.

Possibility one is that the Israeli commandos were acting on behalf of the government of Israel in killing the activists on the ships. In that case Israel is in a position of war with Turkey, and the act falls under international jurisdiction as a war crime.

Possibility two is that, if the killings were not authorised Israeli military action, they were acts of murder under Turkish jurisdiction. If Israel does not consider itself in a position of war with Turkey, then it must hand over the commandos involved for trial in Turkey under Turkish law.

In brief, if Israel and Turkey are not at war, then it is Turkish law which is applicable to what happened on the ship. It is for Turkey, not Israel, to carry out any inquiry or investigation into events and to initiate any prosecutions. Israel is obliged to hand over indicted personnel for prosecution."


http://www.craigmurray.org.uk/archives/2010/05/the_legal_posit.html


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quixotecoyote said:
Like, say, posting the videos from the incident and giving a statement of exactly what it says happened?
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Mr/Ms Tentative Conclusions at it again!!
 
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fallout said:
The selectively published video for fueling the propaganda that the flotilla was a terrorist act?
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You want transparency. They give you transparency, and when it doesn't support your prejudice, you call it propaganda. Nice.
 
JihadJane said:
Than the Israeli military, certainly.

Many reasons. Here are a couple of contextual ones:

- Because they aren't being accused of committing an unprovoked act of war and murder.

- They haven't killed and wounded civilians in International Waters, abducted civilians, mistreated them and stolen their property.
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and activist groups linked to Hamas and the Muslim Brotherhood don't have an agenda of their own, they wouldn't possibly have planned this publicity stunt to gain the public's support and tarnish Israel's reputation by intentionally creating this 'situation', and they would certainly never lie... :rolleyes:
 
Jane, dont bother they are seeing a non-issue here. It's not even close , in their fantasy world, to raise concerns for armed conflict between turkey and israel.

Even if turkey declared that the next flotilla ships will be scouted by their naval forces.
 
fallout said:
Look: http://www.youtube.com/user/russiatoday?blend=1&ob=4#p/u/8/k1sH_RE4CY0 here we have an account of one of the crew members. Fine , you may think she is a liar, but that will be you.
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Well, she claims to have been on the third floor, so she was probably looking out of a window and could not see the top deck. She says the ships were firing, not the soldiers above deck. What were they firing? Their main guns, or some smaller caliber gun? There is a big difference between the two, and sound quite distinct compared to one another.

Does anyone else say the Israeli -ships- were shooting? Maybe they were warning shots.

She doesn't know.
 
quixotecoyote said:
You want transparency. They give you transparency, and when it doesn't support your prejudice, you call it propaganda. Nice.
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They give me transparency? Come on , that's a laugh. Expose my prejudice then, once you touched upon the subject.

You are saying that Israel is being transparent about what happened? Rewrite that once again please.
 
a_unique_person said:
No, they don't give you transparency. Reporters had their equipment taken from them.
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Yes. They did. As they were part of a blockade running flotilla giving support to a genocidal government, I have no problem with that. I'd be quite interested if you could show this is unreasonable by pointing out previous blockade interceptions where the interceptees where allowed to film the proceedings.

As Israel released its video of the incident, and no other credible evidence has been presented to suggest it's altered, misleading, or incomplete in the relevant details, I'm very comfortable calling that transparent.
 
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