Noah's Ark found?

[Accidental Martyr]

You think it's a joke? You want to encounter Satan? Try opposing him for a change. And then ask him, we've met. He knows me.

I saw Satan on TV the other night. He plays for the Bruins. Pretty decent player but Boston still went down after having a 3-0 series lead.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miroslav_Šatan

 

[tsig]

I'm told he never chips in for beer. I say, "Get thee behind me!"
But....what do you think about eight people caring for thousands of animals on a wooden boat with no electricity?

Sadly Satan doesn't do reach arounds.

 

[Marcus]

I am only extremely offensively real.

You're an anonymous nutjob on a message board, and I don't believe you've had any luck offending anyone. Kurious Kathy would like you though.

 

[Belz...]

You think it's a joke? You want to encounter Satan? Try opposing him for a change. And then ask him, we've met. He knows me.

154, a piece of advice:

When someone DOESN'T believe your story, it's not a good argument to assume that the story is true and argue from that. You have to convince that person that the story is true, first.

Your post above ASSUMES that Satan exists although he is very much part of the myth we question. You'll have to do better than this:

Skeptics: "I don't believe that UFOs are visiting aliens."
Believer: "You'll sing a different tune once you're abducted!"

...Is not a valid argument.

 

[Meadmaker]

TOTAL DAYS IN THE ARK: 371

Which, in a different reference frame, is actually 310 billion years, so those lower deck stables must have been really bad by the time the water dried up.

I'll have some comments of a more serious nature about the animal care problem later.

ETA: Not a serious comment from me yet, but I think many will find this quote from one of Radrook's articles amusing:

Many other animals (and perhaps nearly all) are able to enter into a
period of relative dormancy or estivation when faced with a danger they cannot overcome and from which they cannot flee. ...
[snipped a few paragraphs]
...The origin of this mysterious hibernation ability has no ready explanation in science. Might we not suppose that the loving Creator endowed animals onboard the Ark with this survival mechanism? There was probably no need for such an ability before the Flood. All animals today are descended from those on the Ark and all have inherited it. Since science has no better explanation for its origin, this supposition, which fits all the facts, should be given due consideration.

The author of the above did have a PhD. I'm going to go out on a limb and say it isn't in biology, veterinary science, or any field remotely related to animals.

 

[dlorde]

ETA: Not a serious comment from me yet, but I think many will find this quote from one of Radrook's articles amusing:

...
...The origin of this mysterious hibernation ability has no ready explanation in science...

Mysterious? So when do animals hibernate? could it be when food resources are minimal and energy requirements at maximum, e.g. winter ?

You don't really need any more than common-sense and the simplest understanding of evolution to explain its origins.

 

[Tricky]

The flood only lasted 40 days. That's just a little over a month. Animals weren't flooded. They are said to have been safe and dry in the ark.

You need to refresh your reading.
It rained for 40 days, but the flood lasted much longer.

The waters flooded the earth for a hundred and fifty days.

But even if it were only fourty days, that's enough to kill lots of stuff, including many many kinds of plant life, quite a few of which have no mechanism for surviving flood. Did they all re-evolve after the flood?

 

[Marduk]

and I should care about your scale because?

Because your god is actually Satan and you don't realise it. Use your brain, who else would think genocide, murder, theft and cruelty worthy of worship.

your book was written by the Hebrews, who you claim are unrighteous, yet think that by adding a few chapters which you know weren't written by the divine you can make their sin into your salvation

really, take a step back and look at your belief structure, what do you think Jesus and Satan were doing in the desert all that time, he wasn't being tempted, they were plotting and laughing at your ineptitude together.
Your God is supposedly all powerful, yet can't defeat Satan on his own.

how many oxmorons does your faith need before you realise that it is a recruiting ground for the wicked

 

[Ladewig]

[154's admonition to Marduk] "Try opposing him for a change."



I am unclear what you mean by this. Would you elaborate?





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ETA: Also. There are tens of thousands of biologists who unanimously claim that there was no recent genetic bottle neck in humans or any animal on the face of the Earth. When they provide this type of evidence against a world-wide flood, are their results to be dismissed because of misfeasance or malfeasance?
__________________

 

[Complexity]

How did both freshwater and saltwater life survive?

The flood only lasted 40 days. That's just a little over a month. Animals weren't flooded. They are said to have been safe and dry in the ark.

Well, what about those species that would be dead if they were dry?

What about the millions of aquatic species?

Let's see...

Many aquatic species are able to live only in water that is in a narrow range of salinity (that is a measure of dissolved salt, radrook).

Many freshwater species can't tolerate much salt, even briefly, and many saltwater species absolutely need salt to at least a certain level to live.

According to your fairy tale, representatives of these millions of aquatic species didn't make the cut for the ark - they were left to fend for themselves in the rising water.

The changes in salinity level would have been fatal for nearly all aquatic life if your flood had actually occurred.


Here are a few points to consider if when you try to argue the point:

• What was the salinity of the water that purportedly fell upon the earth in such unbelievable volume?
• If you say that the salinity of the rainfall was just what was needed in each small region of the earth to keep its aquatic life alive, remember that the water would have mixed greatly and come fairly close in salinity across broad areas.
• If the rainfall was saline enough to avoid diluting the saltwater oceans too much, why didn't it kill off most of the freshwater life?
• If the rainfall was sufficiently low in salt to avoid raising the salt level of freshwater areas enough, why didn't it kill off most the saltwater life?
• Forget the extra water for a moment. Rising waters would quickly have resulted in significant mixing of the existing waters, diluting water for saltwater life and ensalting water for freshwater life past survivable leves.
• Why isn't there a geological trace of the immense die-off that would have occurred had your flood actually happened?
• How did both freshwater and saltwater aquatic life survive the (imaginary) flood if it isn't possible that both of them could?
• What about those species that are bound to tide pools, or coral reefs, which are not mobile and require a very specific proximity to the surface of the water and to light?

You can't have your cake and eat it too.

 

[Pup]

Well, what about those species that would be dead if they were dry?

What about the millions of aquatic species?

And the bacteria. Will no one think of the bacteria? I'm still wondering about smallpox, cholera, syphilis, etc., not to mention all the species-specific diseases.

 

[TimCallahan]

. . . I'm thinking that they made Ham look after the pigs, beyond that not much

Actually, they made Ham care for the chickens as well. Hence the term "Ham and eggs."

 

[Marduk]

Actually, they made Ham care for the chickens as well. Hence the term "Ham and eggs."

Ok I see you have an answer for everything, so tell me this, how did the potato survive the flood.

no potato, = no ham egg and chips, see.
So along with the ducks (you know about the ducks right) the potato is proof of miraculous intervention. Otherwise we wouldn't know about it.

 

[rwguinn]

And the bacteria. Will no one think of the bacteria? I'm still wondering about smallpox, cholera, syphilis, etc., not to mention all the species-specific diseases.

two words:
Brine Shrimp

 

[Radrook]

You could answer the point I raised in my earlier post. Why aren't Christians all over the world doing everything they can to excavate the most important archaeological find in all of history? This would cinch it for the fundies. If they could excavate this thing (instead of just showing pics of a few boards) all the world would have to admit that the bible is the literal word of god.

Steve S

Good point. I read the book "In search of Noah's Ark" and it states that the Turkish government makes such expeditions exceedingly difficult. That was years ago. Not sure if that's still their policy though. But if it isn't, then you are right. There should be more interest shown.

 

[Radrook]

Actually, they made Ham care for the chickens as well. Hence the term "Ham and eggs."

LOL That's a good one!

 

[Hannibal]

Good point. I read the book "In search of Noah's Ark" and it states that the Turkish government makes such expeditions exceedingly difficult. That was years ago. Not sure if that's still their policy though. But if it isn't, then you are right. There should be more interest shown.

See, I never got this...Turkey makes a poop-load of money from tourists. Imagine how much they can charge for "Resting Place of Noah's Ark".

Very dubious justification for not excavating

 

[Radrook]

And the bacteria. Will no one think of the bacteria? I'm still wondering about smallpox, cholera, syphilis, etc., not to mention all the species-specific diseases.

I see no problem here since there was plenty of water around to place in basins and tanks and keep the animals needing moisture moist.
Syphilis could be carried in the gonads. Just kidding. LOL Those diseases might have developed later since the biblically described post- flood world had undergone some serious atmospheric changes. Some diseases might have been limited to animals and the jumped the animal human barrier like AIDS and Mad COW Disease did.

 

[Radrook]

See, I never got this...Turkey makes a poop-load of money from tourists. Imagine how much they can charge for "Resting Place of Noah's Ark".

Very dubious justification for not excavating

Well, no one wants to get shot by trigger-happy Turks and it's a long drop from Ararat to the base camp! : )

 

[Meadmaker]

Before I comment on the care of animals in the ark, I want to note that although that aspect of the flood is what I was emphasizing in my last few posts, I had also referred to the miraculous nature of the gathering and dispersal of animals. The miracles required to make this scheme work would have had to begin before the flood, and carry on long after the flood, to avoid large scale extinctions. However, let's return to the care of the animals.

I want to focus on one line from Radrook's quotes:

Studies of nonmechanized animal care indicate that eight people could have fed and watered 16,000 creatures. The key is to avoid unnecessary walking around. As the old adage says, “Don’t work harder, work smarter.”

Really? 16,000 creatures? That's a lot of creatures. 2,000 creatures per person.

Do you believe that? I don't. Do you even believe that there was such a study? I don't. Maybe the author just lied and made it up, or maybe he heard somebody say it some time somewhere, like in a sermon, and is just repeating it. If I wanted to be very, very, generous, I might say that there was a study that said one person could care for 2,000 creatures if they all happened to be chickens. However, 1,000 different species, for a whole year? Really? If they slept for 8 hours per day, that means each species, each pair of animals, gets, on average, slightly less than one minute of care per day, from one person, assuming that Noah and his family did absolutely nothing but care for animals and sleep.

The author says that very few would require specialized diets. Really? Without a miracle, how is that possible? Heck, if I just look at finches I know that I have to have several different kinds of finch food available. They won't eat the other kinds of food. Their beaks won't allow it. So, you have less than one minute per day, on average, to find the right food for that particular finch, but you'll keep them all alive. Unless, of course, all those finches were really one "kind", and the different beak shapes developed post deluge. That's not really what you believe, is it?

It would be a miracle if half of them survived, and I mean that literally. So, why the reluctance to acknowledge it?