• Quick note - the problem with Youtube videos not embedding on the forum appears to have been fixed, thanks to ZiprHead. If you do still see problems let me know.

The Deluge

As I said in the other thread, a God that create the cosmos can surely make water appear from nowhere and send it back to nothingness when He was done. All of your questions can be answered with "it was a miracle." The question that I think is much more important are why is there no evidence of a global flood.

If you're going to explain the sudden appearance and then the disappearance of huge quantities of water by simply saying "it was a miracle," then I don't see the evidence that a flood didn't happen as a big problem - it was magic, after all! The same magic that created and debigulated all that water then made a bunch of evidence that would indicate a flood never happened.

I've told my kids, I thought honestly, that the Noah's flood story is just an ancient myth, and that adults don't believe it actually happened. I knew there were people who believe some crazy s***, but wow.

Hey David, was the flood fresh water or salt water? If it was salt water, then did bass (the fish) evolve in the last 6000 years? I usually hear from creationists that evolution can't happen because there's not enough time. But anyone who would believe in Noah's flood would have to believe that these "kinds" evolve into various species at a rate that would blow away the accepted rate by many orders of magnitude.

Glad to see you believe in evolution, but you should be more realistic about the rate.
 
You must have missed this:

Indeed I did - I love it when people connect to the INTERNET using their COMPUTER just to bag science, while also wanting to use science's respectability to prop up their own delusion.

"The bible is very scientific, therefore the bible rules! Except science sucks, but that science isnt in the bible, the bible only has good science!"

And I get to read this, almost instantaneously, on the other side of the planet.
 
Good response. Very well thought out, I consider myself fortunate to not have lost my faith. You read a great deal of Richard Dawkins, do you?

No, should I?


And wrt to you not having lost your faith, I have to say that this is your problem. Not mine. You must believe that stuff, (whatever that stuff might be anyway). Not me. And if you are happy with what you have not lost your faith in, why don't you just go and, well, you know.
 
Good questions.

Up to 15 cubits (22 ft / 6.5 m) of water overwhelmed them. (Genesis 7:20)

It was a global deluge.
22 feet of water? Where? That might be a problem if you live in the Maldives, but I'm 600 feet above sea level here.

Or do you mean it was 15 cubits above the highest point on Earth, so that low-lying countries would have been under five miles of brackish water?

The Bible uses the term "kinds" of animals, which differs from the biological term "species." The biological "kind" or "species" consists of any group of interfertile animals or plansts mutually possessing one or more distinctive characteristics. So there can be many such species of varieties within a single division of the Biblical "kinds."

The Biblical "kinds" are divisions of life forms in which each division allows for cross fertility within its limits. The boundry being, then, is the point where fertilization can no longer occur.
That's largely the same as species, so you'd still need an enormous number of animals.

In other words the Ark didn't need to have every species of dog or cat.
Yeah, it did. It also needed every species of echidna and every species of platypus (okay, there's only one) and every species of wombat and every species of kangaroo and wallaby, and every species of possum, and the quoll and the quokka and the Tasmanian devil and the thylacine (sure, they're gone now, but they lived until the 1930s). And zebras and lemurs and langurs and llamas and giant tortoises and fanged frogs and giant rats and capybaras and alpacas and wildebeeste and okapi and, well, it's quite a list. I can think of several times more than 43 non-interfertile placental mammals just off the top of my head.

That isn't really a question, but a quick response . . . according to Bible chronology the flood took place in 2370 B.C.E. The Akkadian Epic of Gilgamesh, as we know it from the library of Ashurbanipal (who reigned from 668 - 627 B.C.E.) didn't begin to circulate, fragmentarily, until 1900 B.C.E. so how you came to assume the former was inspired by the later is beyond my comprehension as well as, I would like to think, the comprehension of science.
You seem confused.

You are claiming that one story that was written later than another story could not have borrowed from the earlier tale because elements in the story were placed before the date of the oldest known copies of the earlier tale?

You seem to have included every possible logical fallacy in a single short paragraph. Well done!

The water came from a canopy of water vapor that surrounded the earth up until the flood.
Really? And what is your evidence for this canopy of water vapor, given that it is a complete physical impossiblity?

Where did the water go? Nowhere, the earth is about 70% water.
No it isn't. 70% of the Earth's surface is covered by water.

It is possible that the oceans were smaller and the mountains were lower.
In the last 5000 years? No, it's not possible. Mountain forming on anything like the scale you suggest within that timeframe would have involved sufficient tectonic activity to melt the Earth's crust and boil all the oceans.

River channels reach far out under the ocean.
Yes, they were carved out during the last Ice Age.

Which your Bible somehow neglects to mention.

There is ten times as much water by volume in the ocean as there is land above sea level.
Even if that is accurate, so what?

Ice caps.
The polar ice caps have been around a whole lot longer than 5000 years.
 
This is a bit like Karaoke, right? You are just winging it while having no clue about the basic necessities that need to be satisfied. There's two dozen irrefutables in this thread already that you ought to address. Get going.


Not to mention the fact that his way of answering sounds exactly like the lame justifications of a 10 years old for why he didn't do his homework ...
 
Why did God want to kill everyone in the world?

Why did God want to kill all the animals?

Are you ready for the next time God feels the need for a little bit of venting?
 
I'm going to try a different method than I have ever tried. I'm going to open a thread on the flood by simply asking anyone who cares to to ask me whatever they want to ask me about the flood. This could potentially save a great deal of time.

Fiction.
 
Good response. Very well thought out, I consider myself fortunate to not have lost my faith. You read a great deal of Richard Dawkins, do you?

I do read a lot of Richard Dawkins,he has learned to use his brain.
 
I wonder how he explains the lack of global sediment deposits...
While there is ample geological evidence that people in Mesopotamia got really wet feet around the time the Epic of Gilgamesh placed the whole Utnapishtim story. Which got the last edit at 1200 BCE, half a millenium before the bible.
 
Excellent point.

The Bible uses the term "kinds" of animals, which differs from the biological term "species." The biological "kind" or "species" consists of any group of interfertile animals or plansts mutually possessing one or more distinctive characteristics. So there can be many such species of varieties within a single division of the Biblical "kinds."

The Biblical "kinds" are divisions of life forms in which each division allows for cross fertility within its limits. The boundry being, then, is the point where fertilization can no longer occur. In other words the Ark didn't need to have every species of dog or cat.

In other words there only needed to be 43 kinds of mammals, 74 kinds of birds, and 10 kinds of reptiles.

How did you derive those numbers? What are the kinds and how do you determine what kind a particular species belongs to?
 
The water came from a canopy of water vapor that surrounded the earth up until the flood. "For, according to their wish, this fact escapes their notice, that there were heavens from of old and an earth standing compactly out of water and in the midst of water." - 2 Peter 3:5 (See Genesis 1:6-8)

Where did the water go? Nowhere, the earth is about 70% water. It is possible that the oceans were smaller and the mountains were lower. River channels reach far out under the ocean. There is ten times as much water by volume in the ocean as there is land above sea level. Ice caps.

Why is there nothing to indicate any of this in the geological record?
 

Back
Top Bottom