The Freeman Movement and England

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Especially. How about this?

You show me where the Lisbon treaty abolishes the UK parliament as you claimed and I will not only turn up you the protest you advertised I will also bring my family I will spend all the time between now and then actively trying to persuade everyone I know to turn up.

If you care about England you can’t turn down a deal like that.
 
If you have followed some of the threads linked to on the other FOTL thread, you will find that most of the FOTLers who post there are all bluster and no action.

One in particular (and I will chase up the link if you are interested) are offering incredible support to this poor girl who has fallen for her FOTL masters hook, line and sinker, and ended up in gaol because the magic words did not actually work in a Courthouse.

Their action? Post on the thread, and WRITE to her pledging support. Great consolation - we will support you from the bleachers, but there is no way we are going to get out there and try it ourselves.

Is the old USA saying Monday morning quarterbacks? Do they just sit in their basements without the courage of their convictions and watch others that fall for this stuff, go to prison, and then applaud? Looks kinda like it.

Norm

Show us the evidence !
 
Over on the closed thread, I offered to phone Jeremy Vine and get Especially's message on the BBC, if he could just point me to the exact page in the Lisbon Treaty which abolishes the UK parliament. The offer is still open, Especially. I know the telephone number for the BBC, my fingers are poised, I just need the page number.

He's invited us to a mass demonstartion in Plymouth (!) but I've checked the schedule and Sheffield Steelers are playing Nottingham Panthers that day, we don't have much ice-hockey in Britain but that will be one of the biggest games of the season, so that's another ten thousand people who'll be otherwise engaged that day.

I've just looked up the trains from Chesterfield to Plymouth, and the return ticket would cost £114. You're having a laugh, sunshine.
 
I said that bills are routinely sent out which lack ANY breakdown of quantities or items being paid for. And you know perfectly well this is true. Do not act silly.


You get a breakdown ? Great ! In that case you may consent to pay all or none of them, according to your own lawful consent. That's simple. You DO understand after all. Great ! You even agree. Great !

I do the very same. And I consent to pay ONLY what I consent to pay. Nobody makes me pay for goods and services I never asked for and do not want. I contract for NO goods and services which I, personally, do not approve. That is my right under the law. And I am under the law.

Simple, yes ?

Can you please present us with a verifiable example of a freeman who has successfully withheld payment of some or all of his/her Council Tax?

I have repeatedly asked you this. So far you have given us an example of a freeman who unsuccessfully withheld payment of his Council Tax. You have given us unsupported assertions that you have successfully done so.

We are sceptics. We need to see some evidence. Please provide some.

Thanks.
 
Well I'm confused as Especially seems to keep changing what he's saying.

I don't pay bills that are presented to me with no information about what they are for or that are for goods or services i neither ordered or received. But then who does?

Perhaps i am wrong but i though the argument was that as we hadn't consented to paying the Council Tax, Income Tax we don't have to pay it, but Especially just keeps harping on about not paying bills with no information on them.

So what IS the point Especially is trying to make. Or am i being thick?
 
He pays them all but the big thing is he makes an effort to think about it for a long time in regards to freeman theory, then consents nonetheless.

Can you spell c-r-a-c-k-p-o-t?
 
Also:

"ive been worried about freeman stuff lately, I talked to a lawyer in the local courts here and he said that refusing to do certain things, like give your name is perverting the course of justice.

I also asked him about statues and common law and the answer he gave was a lot different to the freeman peeps on this forum"

That's just... wonderful. Simply wonderful. Best thread in weeks!
 
I just finished reading the previous FOTL thread and this one.

It's like Ayn Rand puked all over a pile of Anarchist literature, set the whole mess on fire, and dropped it down a mineshaft, where it was discovered by a tribe of eyeless molemen who worshiped it as a fertility idol, adorned it with giant golden nipples and wrote elaborate poems all over it in braille before they were all encased in concrete by Russian nuclear scientists who used the mineshaft for waste disposal until the UN came calling, and left to soak up rads for a hundred thousand years until wind and surf at last freed it from its stony prison, at which point, bombarded by atomic radiation and possessed by the vengeful spirits of the eyeless molemen, it rose from the fissure, quickened with terrible intent, and driven by instincts unspeakable in all the tongues of man towards the place where it was first spawned, where James Randi, Vin Diesel and the Ghostbusters were waiting for it with giant hadron lasers, and it would have all ended there if it weren't for the timely intervention of a horde of death metal space-vikings, who descended out of the sky in their wicked awesome space-longboat covered with death rays and flaming skulls while Judas Priest rocked out on top of a giant zeppelin, and they blew up the Ghostbusters and beamed up the giant flaming Ayn Rand nipple monster into their space-longboat and they gave the finger to James Randi, who got out a giant skeptical death ray and blew up the space-vikings and the space-longboat and the zeppelin, and the giant flaming Ayn Rand nipple monster fell into the North Atlantic, where it walked across the ocean floor to Japan and decided to spend the rest of its days writing Inuyasha fan fiction, and everyone would have lived happily ever after except that Judas Priest was totally pissed at James Randi for blowing up their zeppelin, so they built a giant robot because they were in Japan too and that's what you do when you're in Japan, and then the giant Ayn Rand nipple monster decided to whup the giant Judas Priest robot's ass, so Judas Priest all got into their giant Judas Priest robot and rocked out so hard that the giant Ayn Rand nipple monster exploded, and parts of it rained down all over the world, and people who couldn't read English or braille found all the pieces of it and posted them all on the internet!

If I clean up the structure of this can I get 50% when we get the movie sold to Hollywood?
 
"Been in court today. Good judge but that's another story. I'll put the date up when I have notified Bernard.

Apparently i am not infact in prison I am free on bail and they cannot release a body that has already been put on release. So that was pooped. thinks fmol is load of philosophical nonsense however, much we protested common law. Kept saying well we all have to operate in this and yes although it comes from laws 1000's of years ago we are operating in this one. I told him i did not consent and he said well you don't have a choice. Under what authority. there isn't one you don't have a choice.

So there you have it. Think I'm gonna have a realistic chance?"

That thread just keeps on giving!
 
Well I'm confused as Especially seems to keep changing what he's saying.

I don't pay bills that are presented to me with no information about what they are for or that are for goods or services i neither ordered or received. But then who does?

Perhaps i am wrong but i though the argument was that as we hadn't consented to paying the Council Tax, Income Tax we don't have to pay it, but Especially just keeps harping on about not paying bills with no information on them.

So what IS the point Especially is trying to make. Or am i being thick?

27 pages later I think we are all thick.
 
Okay, from now on I'm going to write all my great works while suffering from extreme sleep deprivation. Because apparently this is how my brain attains the exalted state of Mu.
 
I just finished reading the previous FOTL thread and this one.

It's like Ayn Rand puked all over a pile of Anarchist literature, set the whole mess on fire, and dropped it down a mineshaft, where it was discovered by a tribe of eyeless molemen who worshiped it as a fertility idol, adorned it with giant golden nipples and wrote elaborate poems all over it in braille before they were all encased in concrete by Russian nuclear scientists who used the mineshaft for waste disposal until the UN came calling, and left to soak up rads for a hundred thousand years until wind and surf at last freed it from its stony prison, at which point, bombarded by atomic radiation and possessed by the vengeful spirits of the eyeless molemen, it rose from the fissure, quickened with terrible intent, and driven by instincts unspeakable in all the tongues of man towards the place where it was first spawned, where James Randi, Vin Diesel and the Ghostbusters were waiting for it with giant hadron lasers, and it would have all ended there if it weren't for the timely intervention of a horde of death metal space-vikings, who descended out of the sky in their wicked awesome space-longboat covered with death rays and flaming skulls while Judas Priest rocked out on top of a giant zeppelin, and they blew up the Ghostbusters and beamed up the giant flaming Ayn Rand nipple monster into their space-longboat and they gave the finger to James Randi, who got out a giant skeptical death ray and blew up the space-vikings and the space-longboat and the zeppelin, and the giant flaming Ayn Rand nipple monster fell into the North Atlantic, where it walked across the ocean floor to Japan and decided to spend the rest of its days writing Inuyasha fan fiction, and everyone would have lived happily ever after except that Judas Priest was totally pissed at James Randi for blowing up their zeppelin, so they built a giant robot because they were in Japan too and that's what you do when you're in Japan, and then the giant Ayn Rand nipple monster decided to whup the giant Judas Priest robot's ass, so Judas Priest all got into their giant Judas Priest robot and rocked out so hard that the giant Ayn Rand nipple monster exploded, and parts of it rained down all over the world, and people who couldn't read English or braille found all the pieces of it and posted them all on the internet!

....L. Ron Hubbard...? I thought you were dead!
 
I would like to know how our Freeman friend avoids paying the VAT tax in the UK. Hell, even non UK Citizens visiting the UK have to pay that.....
 
So much for trying to debunk the UCC and Birth Certificate myths...You guys do realize that this is the hook, line and sinker, for most freemen. The ability to get out of debt and amass a ton of free money with ones birth certificate...This is the danlging carrot and I'm waiting for someone to address this.

And no, "Especially". If you would have looked at ANY of the link I provided earlier, you'd know more about the failed history of the freeman movement in America that is quite indisputable, and THAT's why I'm not here to debate it with you. I'm here looking for some help on an article I'm writing and having trouble tracking down info on WHY the UCC theory doesn't work and what causes the initial misconceptions...

ANYBODY? Anybody but "Especially". Whose recently taken to insulting my avatar for no good reason...
 
The point Especially is making (although not deliberately) is that the FOTL stuff is just pointless hot air. It's an abstract legal theory based on a misunderstanding of a few simple words ("corporation" probably being the key one), garnished with bizarre leaps of pseudo-logic ("gold fringe on a flag makes it an admiralty court!"). It is drivel, pure and simple.

The only good thing to come out of this is that anyone looking for information on FOTL will hopefully find this and other threads and realise what a load of junk it all is. Those that don't, and blindly believe any old tosh... well, they at least provide amusement when they get to court.
 
Is it just me, or out of all the kooky yet entertaining conspiracy theories we deal with on this forum, this Freeman thing is just painfully boring?
 
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