The Freeman Movement and England

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volatile said:
Also:

"ive been worried about freeman stuff lately, I talked to a lawyer in the local courts here and he said that refusing to do certain things, like give your name is perverting the course of justice.

I also asked him about statues and common law and the answer he gave was a lot different to the freeman peeps on this forum"

That's just... wonderful. Simply wonderful. Best thread in weeks!
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That was probably a bit of a worry for the poor FOTL, but luckily he had yozhik to set him straight. Whew!
 
twinstead said:
Is it just me, or out of all the kooky yet entertaining conspiracy theories we deal with on this forum, this Freeman thing is just painfully boring?
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It's the repetition. Instead of trying to prove his point he copy/pastes pieces he's already said or asks the same question over and over again pretending it wasn't answered. I have to say these Freeman threads are the most lacking in support from the opposition - it seems they feel that we should just accept what they say because they said it in condescending terms.
 
volatile said:
So there you have it. Think I'm gonna have a realistic chance?"

That thread just keeps on giving!
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Truly scary. This is a real person sitting in a real cell, with a real car about to be crushed, and quite possibly a real bank account about to be forcibly emptied and a real job that she's going to lose because she's sitting in that cell instead of going to work.

And Especially thinks this is a model we should emulate.
 
LissaLysikan said:
It's the repetition. Instead of trying to prove his point he copy/pastes pieces he's already said or asks the same question over and over again pretending it wasn't answered. I have to say these Freeman threads are the most lacking in support from the opposition - it seems they feel that we should just accept what they say because they said it in condescending terms.
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Exactly. FOTL is not boring per se -- in fact, it's so :rule10ing insane, it's hilarious -- but its proponents make these threads tedious. Brick walls are more responsive to facts and reasoning.
 
volatile said:
Gold!

"she was sitting in her automobile being harrassed by a cop for not having insurance or registration...he took the phone off her and I informed him that he needed to quote the specific law that gives him the authority that he claimed...he just said 'Road Traffic Act', which I reminded him only applies to persons..."
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Have you seen the followup thread?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84422

Apparently she managed to get herself sent up for a week for contempt of court.

And the charges STILL haven't been resolved, as far as I can tell.

I fear she may be getting more chances to get used to the inside of that cell....
 
Especially said:
'I pay my taxes. I follow the law. And nobody is going to tell me different'.

Except you have no choice. You don't want choice. Except that you have no power of consent. You don't want power of consent. Except that your 'law' is nothing but commerce presided over by corporate lawyers. Your 'law' is not law. You want sovereignty but you deny it to yourself. You fly the flag and are a proud citizen. Your Congress is a joke. Your courts are commercial companies operating according to the law of the Admiralty Law. Not the law of the land. Your tax money goes to the 'system'. Your choice is nil. And the scarecrows want you to pay, forever. As 'law abiding' slaves. Regardless of what the real law says. Anyone who says differently or who asks you to think is crazy.

You are, in fact, a 'law abiding' slave of the corporate mafia New World Order, and you are, like it or not, a faithful servant of the so-called government. Serving them, your master. Bailing them out. Over and over again. You sit on your backside while your own Constitution is being trashed. You want phone taps, surveillance state brutality, and corporate police. You sanction every venture of the industrial/military complex. And you are a 'law' abiding slave.

Since, a man cannot serve two masters. You are a law-abiding slave. And you have got the government you deserve. The one you want. The one who entertained you on TV. The one you demanded. You've no right to complain about it. Because you don't want it to be any different, even if people show that you yourself are the cause of your own slavery.
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Where. Where is this corporate mafia New World Order. Where are the corporate police. Where is the Constitution, or for that fact the Magna Carta, being trashed. Where exactly. I can't see them.
 
drkitten said:
Have you seen the followup thread?

http://www.davidicke.com/forum/showthread.php?t=84422

Apparently she managed to get herself sent up for a week for contempt of court.

And the charges STILL haven't been resolved, as far as I can tell.

I fear she may be getting more chances to get used to the inside of that cell....
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If I quoted the best bits of that, I'd get yellow-carded for bad language! Comedy gold.

Rolfe.
 
twinstead said:
Is it just me, or out of all the kooky yet entertaining conspiracy theories we deal with on this forum, this Freeman thing is just painfully boring?
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Ignorance and arrogance, although initially entertaining, gets tiresome after a while. It's like watching the Black Knight get chopped to pieces by Graham Chapman, only it goes on for hours.

King Arthur: Now, stand aside, worthy adversary!
Black Knight: 'Tis but a scratch!
King Arthur: A scratch? Your arm's off!
Black Knight: No, it isn't!
King Arthur: Well, what's that then?
Black Knight: I've had worse.
 
There's a sort of romantic yearning to be the oppressed, suffering, heroic freedom-fighter in there. It's all a bit sad really.

Rolfe.
 
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Although not exactly a Freeman, the case of Wesley Snipes should tell you what using this type of argument to avoid paying your income taxes leads to.
 
Brain starting to leak out

I suppose it's hardly surprising given the amount of cults that have taken hold over the centuries, but my head is still spinning after reading some of this stuff over the last couple of days.

It doesn't help that there's no real argument here, just the same claims posted ad nauseam with no real evidence to back them up. And there seems to be a confusion about UK and English law. If people want to talk about English law, fine. Just remember the Scottish legal system also exists within the UK framework and is for the most part separate from its English counterpart.

As for this Admiralty court thing, the Scots version was apparently abolished 170 years ago; not sure about other jurisdictions. I know people use various reasons to get around paying taxes, but if you really want to take action against the government, don't wait till they send you a bill, get out on the streets and tell them about it.

Prior to this the only Freemen I knew of, aside from those individuals awarded the honour from a city or burgh, was the secret, thuggish organisation from that most excellent Sherlock Holmes' story The Valley of Fear. That book was enjoyable. These new freemen not so much.
 
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Sunray Breaker said:
So much for trying to debunk the UCC and Birth Certificate myths...You guys do realize that this is the hook, line and sinker, for most freemen. The ability to get out of debt and amass a ton of free money with ones birth certificate...This is the danlging carrot and I'm waiting for someone to address this.

And no, "Especially". If you would have looked at ANY of the link I provided earlier, you'd know more about the failed history of the freeman movement in America that is quite indisputable, and THAT's why I'm not here to debate it with you. I'm here looking for some help on an article I'm writing and having trouble tracking down info on WHY the UCC theory doesn't work and what causes the initial misconceptions...
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It doesn't work because the whole STRAWMAN thing is fiction. Where the idea about the money behind the STRAWMAN comes from I'm not sure.
 
geni said:
It doesn't work because the whole STRAWMAN thing is fiction. Where the idea about the money behind the STRAWMAN comes from I'm not sure.
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The idea comes from the fact that somewhere a FOTL woo found Black Law's dictionary and noticed that "person" was not defined as "human being." Now, a NORMAL person would come to the conclusion that just because a legal dictionary does not include the universe of synonyms for words that this does not mean that such synonyms do not exist (ie, that there is no difference between a human being and a person but just that the writer of the document didnt need to put all synonyms for PERSON in there, which would include human beings, people, whatever). But when your a woo..well..FOTL occurs when you read that.

Sunray, I am not sure why you say that you are having a hard time showing that the UCC theory woo as espoused by FOTL woos doesn't work. UCC is not internally consistent with FOTL woo (since ITS NOT COMMON LAW).
 
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timhau said:
Exactly. FOTL is not boring per se -- in fact, it's so :rule10ing insane, it's hilarious -- but its proponents make these threads tedious. Brick walls are more responsive to facts and reasoning.
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If even a fraction of the proponents had the courage of their convictions, it would be hilarious. You wouldn't have a day go by without some new story of a FOTL prat being dragged away screaming "I refuse to contract with you!"
 
Sunray Breaker said:
I'm currently looking for sources on debunking the UCC and birth certificate parts of this CT in the states.

I'm writing an article on the freeman movement in America and I've got a pretty good amount of sources. Can anyone provide a couple of good links that might help further debunk this particular CT?

I know a lot of it has it's roots in the redemption movement.
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I don't have a link for this but its common sense so I am not sure anything official has been written on it. The whole birth certificate thing is completely made up and they claim you can punch in the numbers on them into a stock symbol ticker and see your "bond" on the market where the NWO is buying and trading you. But what they are actually doing is punching in mutual fund numbers, which is why some of them find a hit but others do not.
 
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