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The Freeman Movement and England

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Sledge said:
Especially, you're not helping me much here. Obviously, I don't want to remain a slave of the NWO, but I also don't want to end up in an NWO prison. So please, what do I do when the NWO enforcers normally referred to as the police throw me in jail for not paying my taxes? At least tell me what taxes you don't pay and how you prevented the corrupt courts from imprisoning you.
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I think I can field this for you. You only pay the ones you consent to. IE: If you want to avoid the cigarette tax, don't smoke, the restaurant tax, eat in, the gas tax don't drive. Do you see where he's going now? Only pay the ones you consent to. And yes you can avoid income tax, don't work.
 
Do you have a costed, quantified Council Tax Bill ? And have you ever, at any time, asked for one ? Since you pay them, don't you ? Do your rules of scrutiny not apply in such a case ? LOL !!!
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So any comment on the fact that several people have already explained that they do get a breakdown of costs and services with their Council Tax Bill? If you can't find them, i'll state here and now that I do get a breakdown with each bill.

You've dodged this fact several times so far.
 
I'm currently looking for sources on debunking the UCC and birth certificate parts of this CT in the states.

I'm writing an article on the freeman movement in America and I've got a pretty good amount of sources. Can anyone provide a couple of good links that might help further debunk this particular CT?

I know a lot of it has it's roots in the redemption movement.
 
Uh oh...It looks like the Woo has made it into Wikipedia.

Some FOTL dude edited the Capitus Diminutia Maxima page and it hasn't been modified yet.

Whoever might be able to correct this madness, please do so...As I'm trying to find legitimate info on this topic for my article and the Wiki article is anything but.

They get the history right (vaguely) but look at the second half...Full of Woo being disguised as fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitus_diminutio
 
PB2007 said:
So any comment on the fact that several people have already explained that they do get a breakdown of costs and services with their Council Tax Bill? If you can't find them, i'll state here and now that I do get a breakdown with each bill.

You've dodged this fact several times so far.
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I've dodged nothing.

I consent to pay certain bills and not to pay others. I am under the law. And you pay them all anyway.
 
Sunray Breaker said:
I'm currently looking for sources on debunking the UCC and birth certificate parts of this CT in the states.

I'm writing an article on the freeman movement in America and I've got a pretty good amount of sources. Can anyone provide a couple of good links that might help further debunk this particular CT?

I know a lot of it has it's roots in the redemption movement.
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I know the best way.

Why not have a debate on the freeman movement ? Right here on this thread. Or start another one. I am a supporter of the freeman movement.

Then we can see who debunks who.

Agreed ?

:)
 
DGM said:
I think I can field this for you. You only pay the ones you consent to. IE: If you want to avoid the cigarette tax, don't smoke, the restaurant tax, eat in, the gas tax don't drive. Do you see where he's going now? Only pay the ones you consent to. And yes you can avoid income tax, don't work.
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I was hoping for more than that, to be honest. I was hoping Especially was above the dishonesty of proclaiming he doesn't pay taxes he doesn't consent to, then finding the small print says the taxes he doesn't consent to are more or less voluntary anyway. Of course, all Especially has to do to prove us wrong is tell us how he has avoided paying council tax without being imprisoned.

And no, claiming council tax benefit doesn't count. Come on, Especially! I'm waiting to be converted to your noble cause, just show me the way.
 
I know the best way.

Why not have a debate on the freeman movement ? Right here on this thread. Or start another one. I am a supporter of the freeman movement.

Then we can see who debunks who.

Agreed ?
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Nope...Because I'm interested in writing an article, not debate. And besides, I haven't spoken to one judge, cop or government worker that agrees with this nonsense. If you can find a me a few professionals to discuss this matter with, perhaps it would be worth my time. But I'm really not interested in debating something that's been, pretty much, completely disproven.

I already know what you guys are all about and was on the verge of becoming a freeman (filing my UCC-1, studying Blacks Law Dictionary, Declaring my sovereignty, etc.) before I cross referenced everything I had learned with JREF. Then I had to come to the harsh realization that the research I had spent over a year trying to understand, was just a waste of time.

If you can explain to me how some ancient roman law regarding capital letters in my name somehow still applies to modern America, I'm all ears. I look forward to the skeptics demolishing your argument shortly after being posted.

So I ask again...can anyone give me more info regarding the UCC and Birth Certifcate theories and why they don't hold water? I've got pretty much everything else pegged.
 
Especially said:
I know the best way.

Why not have a debate on the freeman movement ? Right here on this thread. Or start another one. I am a supporter of the freeman movement.

Then we can see who debunks who.

Agreed ?

:)
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Why not debate with your City Council? It would seem more productive of your time.
 
Sunray Breaker said:
Nope...Because I'm interested in writing an article, not debate. And besides, I haven't spoken to one judge, cop or government worker that agrees with this nonsense. If you can find a me a few professionals to discuss this matter with, perhaps it would be worth my time. But I'm really not interested in debating something that's been, pretty much, completely disproven.

I already know what you guys are all about and was on the verge of becoming a freeman (filing my UCC-1, studying Blacks Law Dictionary, Declaring my sovereignty, etc.) before I cross referenced everything I had learned with JREF. Then I had to come to the harsh realization that the research I had spent over a year trying to understand, was just a waste of time.

If you can explain to me how some ancient roman law regarding capital letters in my name somehow still applies to modern America, I'm all ears. I look forward to the skeptics demolishing your argument shortly after being posted.

So I ask again...can anyone give me more info regarding the UCC and Birth Certifcate theories and why they don't hold water? I've got pretty much everything else pegged.
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You want to research the subject but you conduct no real research. You claim to know why your ideas are right.

And I have offered to debate with you on the subject. Right here on the forum. If you are so sure, that is. Just throwing dirt around is meaningless.
 
Sledge said:
I was hoping for more than that, to be honest. I was hoping Especially was above the dishonesty of proclaiming he doesn't pay taxes he doesn't consent to, then finding the small print says the taxes he doesn't consent to are more or less voluntary anyway. Of course, all Especially has to do to prove us wrong is tell us how he has avoided paying council tax without being imprisoned.

And no, claiming council tax benefit doesn't count. Come on, Especially! I'm waiting to be converted to your noble cause, just show me the way.
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He could avoid council tax by not owning land. If you rent, the land-lord has to pay, or at least that's how it works down here in Australia. Of course, the fact that the land-lord pays the council means that, from one point of view, paying the rent means paying the council by proxy (the same way that buying liquor means paying liquor tax because it's included in the price). He could avoid paying the council via rent by being homeless, squatting, or (more likely) living with his parents.

Still, I'd like him to give some specific examples of exactly what "bills"/taxes he refuses to pay, and how he manages to avoid paying. If he was serious about educating us about his views, I see no reason why he wouldn't want to provide us with specifics. (But I suspect specifics on this point will remain elusive indefinetly.)


Especially said:
I've dodged nothing.

I consent to pay certain bills and not to pay others. I am under the law. And you pay them all anyway.
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It would seem a lot less like "dodging" if you provided us with specific examples, rather than vague generalities.

BTW; What exactly does "I am under the law" mean? That you are acting lawfully under your own interpretation of the law? That you are acting lawfully under the generally accepted interpretation of the law? That the law does not apply to you?
 
Brian-M said:
He could avoid council tax by not owning land. If you rent, the land-lord has to pay, or at least that's how it works down here in Australia. Of course, the fact that the land-lord pays the council means that, from one point of view, paying the rent means paying the council by proxy (the same way that buying liquor means paying liquor tax because it's included in the price). He could avoid paying the council via rent by being homeless, squatting, or (more likely) living with his parents.
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In the UK, the council tax bill goes to the tenant. People in certain circumstances (unemployed, disabled, etc) can get council tax benefit, but I hope Especially wouldn't count that as not consenting to pay his council tax.

Still, I'd like him to give some specific examples of exactly what "bills"/taxes he refuses to pay, and how he manages to avoid paying. If he was serious about educating us about his views, I see no reason why he wouldn't want to provide us with specifics. (But I suspect specifics on this point will remain elusive indefinetly.)[/QUOTE]
I'd love to see him provide some examples. I think we'd all be happy to admit we were wrong if he presented some clear evidence of a Freeman using FOTL methods to avoid paying something we all think we have to.
 
Sunray Breaker said:
Uh oh...It looks like the Woo has made it into Wikipedia.

Some FOTL dude edited the Capitus Diminutia Maxima page and it hasn't been modified yet.

Whoever might be able to correct this madness, please do so...As I'm trying to find legitimate info on this topic for my article and the Wiki article is anything but.

They get the history right (vaguely) but look at the second half...Full of Woo being disguised as fact.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitus_diminutio
Click to expand...

That was gross. I made it better. We'll see how long it lasts.
 
Brian-M said:
He could avoid council tax by not owning land. If you rent, the land-lord has to pay, or at least that's how it works down here in Australia. Of course, the fact that the land-lord pays the council means that, from one point of view, paying the rent means paying the council by proxy (the same way that buying liquor means paying liquor tax because it's included in the price). He could avoid paying the council via rent by being homeless, squatting, or (more likely) living with his parents.

Still, I'd like him to give some specific examples of exactly what "bills"/taxes he refuses to pay, and how he manages to avoid paying. If he was serious about educating us about his views, I see no reason why he wouldn't want to provide us with specifics. (But I suspect specifics on this point will remain elusive indefinetly.)
Click to expand...

It really looks to me from some of his more recent posts in this thread that he actually pays all the required taxes, but tells himself that he pays them because he "consents" to pay them, so he gets to stay out of jail and think himself a fine fierce freeman.
 
I just finished reading the previous FOTL thread and this one.

It's like Ayn Rand puked all over a pile of Anarchist literature, set the whole mess on fire, and dropped it down a mineshaft, where it was discovered by a tribe of eyeless molemen who worshiped it as a fertility idol, adorned it with giant golden nipples and wrote elaborate poems all over it in braille before they were all encased in concrete by Russian nuclear scientists who used the mineshaft for waste disposal until the UN came calling, and left to soak up rads for a hundred thousand years until wind and surf at last freed it from its stony prison, at which point, bombarded by atomic radiation and possessed by the vengeful spirits of the eyeless molemen, it rose from the fissure, quickened with terrible intent, and driven by instincts unspeakable in all the tongues of man towards the place where it was first spawned, where James Randi, Vin Diesel and the Ghostbusters were waiting for it with giant hadron lasers, and it would have all ended there if it weren't for the timely intervention of a horde of death metal space-vikings, who descended out of the sky in their wicked awesome space-longboat covered with death rays and flaming skulls while Judas Priest rocked out on top of a giant zeppelin, and they blew up the Ghostbusters and beamed up the giant flaming Ayn Rand nipple monster into their space-longboat and they gave the finger to James Randi, who got out a giant skeptical death ray and blew up the space-vikings and the space-longboat and the zeppelin, and the giant flaming Ayn Rand nipple monster fell into the North Atlantic, where it walked across the ocean floor to Japan and decided to spend the rest of its days writing Inuyasha fan fiction, and everyone would have lived happily ever after except that Judas Priest was totally pissed at James Randi for blowing up their zeppelin, so they built a giant robot because they were in Japan too and that's what you do when you're in Japan, and then the giant Ayn Rand nipple monster decided to whup the giant Judas Priest robot's ass, so Judas Priest all got into their giant Judas Priest robot and rocked out so hard that the giant Ayn Rand nipple monster exploded, and parts of it rained down all over the world, and people who couldn't read English or braille found all the pieces of it and posted them all on the internet!
 
Especially said:
I've dodged nothing.

I consent to pay certain bills and not to pay others. I am under the law. And you pay them all anyway.
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How does that answer the question?

You claim no-one receives a breakdown of the cost and services associated with a Council Tax bill. Myself and others have stated we do get such a breakdown. You've been asked for your comments on this fact and you have dodged the question each time by either ignoring the question, or like above by answering some imaginary other question which you weren't asked. I didn't ask if you paid the bill.

Care to try again or will you just dodge it again?
 
Elizabeth I said:
It really looks to me from some of his more recent posts in this thread that he actually pays all the required taxes, but tells himself that he pays them because he "consents" to pay them, so he gets to stay out of jail and think himself a fine fierce freeman.
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If you have followed some of the threads linked to on the other FOTL thread, you will find that most of the FOTLers who post there are all bluster and no action.

One in particular (and I will chase up the link if you are interested) are offering incredible support to this poor girl who has fallen for her FOTL masters hook, line and sinker, and ended up in gaol because the magic words did not actually work in a Courthouse.

Their action? Post on the thread, and WRITE to her pledging support. Great consolation - we will support you from the bleachers, but there is no way we are going to get out there and try it ourselves.

Is the old USA saying Monday morning quarterbacks? Do they just sit in their basements without the courage of their convictions and watch others that fall for this stuff, go to prison, and then applaud? Looks kinda like it.

Norm
 
PB2007 said:
How does that answer the question?

You claim no-one receives a breakdown of the cost and services associated with a Council Tax bill. Myself and others have stated we do get such a breakdown. You've been asked for your comments on this fact and you have dodged the question each time by either ignoring the question, or like above by answering some imaginary other question which you weren't asked. I didn't ask if you paid the bill.

Care to try again or will you just dodge it again?
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I said that bills are routinely sent out which lack ANY breakdown of quantities or items being paid for. And you know perfectly well this is true. Do not act silly.


You get a breakdown ? Great ! In that case you may consent to pay all or none of them, according to your own lawful consent. That's simple. You DO understand after all. Great ! You even agree. Great !

I do the very same. And I consent to pay ONLY what I consent to pay. Nobody makes me pay for goods and services I never asked for and do not want. I contract for NO goods and services which I, personally, do not approve. That is my right under the law. And I am under the law.

Simple, yes ?
 
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