Mr. Lloyd Pye and the Starchild Skull

Squid

Thinker
Squid
Joined
Feb 4, 2009
Messages
143
Hello, everyone. I'm asking for some help, if people don't mind.

I'm a member of a forum at Mania.com, which is a site dedicated to things like comic books, movies, games... mostly sci fi/fantasy/horror based. They offer regular columns, written by guest commentators.

One of their columns, "23.5 Degrees" is angled toward the usual woo. Well, Mr. Lloyd Pye, a man who owns an unusually deformed human skull, is trying to prove to the world that the skull is of an alien/human hybrid. I've been trying to debate him civilly, but I'm not getting anywhere. I'm an almost alone skeptic surrounded by woo believers.

What I'm asking for is for people, regardless of what you believe, to come over to that thread and post about it, in a civil manner. I really could use people who know more about biology, anthropology, genetics, and similar topics than I do. ( I can't refute some of his claims because I lack the proper knowledge to do so; therefore, I sound somewhat like a fool, and definitely a lone voice shouting into the wind. )

I can't post a direct link yet, so here's how to find the column for those who are interested. Go to mania.com, find the search bar, type in "Mission Starchild Part Deux" and hit enter. You can find the thread at the top of the returned searches.

Thank you!

Squid
 
Oh, FFS. What are the chances of two species that evolved on different planets being able to interbreed? This has to be one of the silliest woo ideas out there!
 
GT/CS said:
This site seems to be what you are looking for.
Click to expand...

Well, here's the problem. I've already linked to that site on the Mania thread. And Mr. Pye has gone through the usual motions to "debunk" their website, saying he's asked NESS to remove that page because it is "not factual."

Believe me, I have no delusions about what the skull is. The odds of the skull being an alien/human hybrid or alien are about the same of me convincing Mr. Pye that the skull is natural... in other words, zero.

I believe it's human; he believes otherwise. But he's talking about biology and genetics that are way above my head, and I lack the knowledge of those sciences to disprove the new theories he's tossing about. I can keep pointing out the fallacies in his logic, but he can keep obscuring the real issue with pseudoscience.

I guess I'm looking to make the conversation over there not so one sided... to not be the lone voice in the wind. Basic research I've got... but facts from someone who's in those fields or who is an expert on those subjects would really, really help. I'm not trying to convince Mr. Pye... that simply won't happen. I'm trying to reach out to those on that site who are on the proverbial fence inbetween skepticism and woo, like I once was. I want to plant those doubts and hope they lead someone to a more rational way of life.

Does that better explain what I'm looking for?

Squid
 
This is old, debunked woo. Good luck with it though, if practice and educating yourself about woo is your goal. I haven't found the episode# yet, but Dr Steven Novella on the Skeptics' Guide to the Universe (and crew) covered this on an early episode. Being a neurologist (from memory, that's what Dr Novella is right?), he also had a pretty good idea what the true cause of the skull actually was.

Edit: oops, just noticed that the link a few posts up was a ness post and was indeed Dr Novella. Apologies - just go there.
 
Last edited:
You will never convince him. You may as well argue with a brick wall. As for other people, it takes a lot to convince a person with convictions that they are wrong and even more to get them to admit it.
 
To echo what others have said above...its a hopeless cause. Doesn't matter how much science or facts you throw at him. He is a 'true believer'...and like all true believers, is certain that he had 'The Truth'. Any scientific snippet that he feels supports his argument (or that can be twisted/misinterpreted to support his argument) will be accepted as gospel truth...and all others dismissed as wrong. Of course, non-scientific snippets that support his argument will likewise be held up as undeniable truth.

This isn't a case of "let's look at the evidence and see which side has more evidence to support it". It is a case of "I know the truth, and anything that contradicts it is, by definition, wrong."
 
Please keep posting, you won't convince HIM but the other people reading will get both sides. THe point is also to keep pressing him. Often with skeptics you aren't trying to change the mind of the hard core believer. You are making sure anyone reading his BS belief isn't going to buy it.

One thing I do is to, with respect, keep pushing the hard core believer until they get into what I like to call the "Idiot Zone " or "Just Plain Silly Zone".

A hard core believer likes a LOT of evidence. So you refute his claims (as best you can) but also press him for more. Eventually most hard core believers will come up with something so silly that everyone listening in or reading this debate goes "well that's just plain dumb". Now I know, interbreeding between humans and aliens is just plain silly, but people will buy anythig with a some science words thrown in.

Push perhaps for where exactly he feels these "aliens" have come from. Ask if the mother reported anything like an alien raping her. Heck, ask "why would all these scientists lie? and what is your educational background?" (get his real name so you can google his credentials). I dunno, but usually these people end up claiming something SO over the top that everyone (or at least the average person) goes, "well now THAT is just dumb".

As a skeptic, you are doing a good job just replying and makig sure his BS does not go unchallenged. Ignoring these people means he gets to post his woo and if no one says "that is incorrect" people will believe it. You are doing a much better job than you think!
 
It took Google exactly .13 second to pull up images which smack Lloyd Pye's "starchild" hypothesis square in the chops.

Examples of living "starchildren" aka hydrocephalus sufferers abound.

I can't even imagine the type of mental gymnastics a person like Lloyd had to perform in order to deny the reality of the blatently obvious explanation for his "starchild" skull. The level of voluntary pig ignorance necessary to continue with such a foolish delusion in the face of such easily accessible contradictory evidence is truly astonishing.
 
Last edited:
GT/CS said:
This site seems to be what you are looking for.

http://www.theness.com/the-starchild-project/
Click to expand...

From the link:

We will likely never know the whole story of the Starchild, but what is clear is that aliens need not be invoked. The child very likely suffered from untreated hydrocephalus, a mundane and simple explanation for the anomalies seen in the skull. DNA testing confirms, unsurprisingly, the child’s human ancestry. Still, the true-believers are likely to cling tenaciously to their preferred hypotheses, and will continue to spin tales of an alien-human breeding program. Science progresses forward, while pseudoscience remains fixed in predetermined desired beliefs.​
 
The holder of the skull wants his 15 minutes of fame and attention, and science or any other study is not going to take that away from him. You don't need to be an expert as he rejects any expertise. You cannot argue with him, only dismiss him and dismiss everything he says.
 
Pye Cherry Picks his evidence by suggesting the Gaps in the Fossil record mean that there are aliens. Hominoid? Give me a break! :rolleyes: That is not even Scientific terminology!
 
The terms "hominoid", "hominid", and "hominin" are not interchangeable, but their classification criteria are variously in a state of flux. In general, the hominoids are a primate superfamily; the hominid family is currently considered to comprise both the great ape lineages and human lineages within the hominoid superfamily; the "homininae" comprise both the human lineages and the African ape lineages within the hominids, and the "hominini" comprising only the human lineages.
Click to expand...
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Hominoids.html
 
Alice Shortcake said:
Oh, FFS. What are the chances of two species that evolved on different planets being able to interbreed? This has to be one of the silliest woo ideas out there!
Click to expand...

Actually it is quite well documented in some categories of comic books that the ability to interbreed is the norm among humanoid races. :duck:
 
makaya325 said:
It just Seems like he is misusing Scientific Terminology to make himself sound Sophisticated, when, in reality, he is sounding more Pseudo scientific.
Click to expand...

no complaint from me on that one, hes a total douchebag, funnily enough the only people I know who support him are also all douchebags and incredibly none of them knows the first thing about evolution

When he started claiming that the reason we only use 10% of our brains is because the other 90% is redundant in humans but not in the aliens we descend from I realised that things were about to go downhill, I think that was in the first 30 seconds of the first docu he ever appeared in.
:rolleyes:
 
Marduk said:
no complaint from me on that one, hes a total douchebag, funnily enough the only people I know who support him are also all douchebags and incredibly none of them knows the first thing about evolution

When he started claiming that the reason we only use 10% of our brains is because the other 90% is redundant in humans but not in the aliens we descend from I realised that things were about to go downhill, I think that was in the first 30 seconds of the first docu he ever appeared in.
:rolleyes:
Click to expand...

Talk about Pye logic: Scientific terminology misuse + accepting debunked "10 percent" theory + guillible audience= Recipe for woo-woo :)
 
Squid,

You are just suffering from SIWOTI Syndrome, and you'll find you are not the only one here. Please keep up the good work, as kittynh already pointed out. You will not sway him, but others might start thinking, and that is a good thing.

Oh, :welcome2, by the way, you are in the right place.

Femke
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Back
Top Bottom