Merged Continuation - 9/11 CT subforum General Discussion Thread

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I love it when posters come here and gripe about the spin machine, but never actually post anything related to the subject to actually debate.

As to the "spin machine" I guess if applying evidence based standards to a theory is the "spin machine", then guilty as charged.

He will not argue a specific point, because he knows we have all the proof to adequately debunk any issue he brings...so he complains about debating techniques etc...

TAM:)

It’s the most pathetic thing I have ever seen here. He may as well say “It’s not fair, you're all a bunch of meanies for not being nice to me and making my fantasies look silly, I'm not playing".

Followed by feet stomping.

This is a subforum for discussing the events of Sept 11th, not to read your babbling about how a debate should or should not be conducted Steve.If you wish such a disccusion take to one of the other subforums ( that being somewhere else, those places you don't bother looking at) You said there is evidence that supports your case, present it. Where is your evidence, Steve?
 
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tom, you have just agreed with my explanation as to why the Mike Rivero quote is valid. I said the same thing you just said numerous times here already just in a different way.

People are willing to accept the little crimes but are unwilling to admit the possibility of the big crimes.

Thank you tom

Well, considering the fact that I think the Rivero comment is pure BS, and that I've been stating clearly for about 5 posts that I think it's pure BS, and I've agreed with approximately zero percent of the things I've seen you post, including your statements above ...

... I think we may have found one possible explanation of why you get your facts wrong so often.

Ah, well...

tom
 
So why should I jump through your hoops? heck I have discussed this to death many places and proved my points. Why should I jump through YOUR hoops here?

Because, Steve, this is the 9/11 CT Subforum General Discussion Thread. This is not the debate tactics thread.

Please start your own debate tactics thread if you want to continue debating debate tactics.

If not, please tell me what you think happened on 9/11, at either location.

Thanks.
 
"... "Downplay the fact that free inquiry, legitimate disagreement and respectful debate are a normal part of science."
You can't win an argument on 911 because you have no evidence; you have failed opinions based on lies, hearsay and delusions spread by liars. Do you really support Fetzer and his beam weapon no planer insanity? You posted criticism of Fetzer; did you mean to slam Fetzer or support his insane claims.

Legitimate disagreements have facts and evidence; you have nothing. You bring no facts or evidence to make a respectful debate; you bring woo. You have no facts and evidence to support your delusion on 911. How scientific of you.


...
There has been a lot of evidence that supports alternatives to the OCT, but everytime it is brought up at JREF the "spin machine" revs up into high gear and brings out all the tactics listed on both lists and then some. ...
Where is your evidence? Another false statement to mislead others! Is this 334.15 ways?
334.15 - make up stuff and hope people feel the same way and ignore your lies and lack of evidence.
... Point to any thread here at the JREF 9/11 CT subforum where facts supporting alternatives to the OCT were brought up and I could easily point out those tactics in each and every one. ...
Truthers never brought facts; why? They complain, post lies, do what you are doing, and leave without presenting evidence for their claims.
... Why do you think so few people even bother to post here? Why do you think most "truthers" do not post here? You think it's because you are so superior? LOL, if your arguments could stand the light of day you might actually try publishing a book or an article that refutes the books and articles the Truth movement has published. Instead you all remain safely here at JREF and talk about how this and that source is garbage or delusional and how this and that publisher is not "scientific" or trustworthy or "garbage". ...
Why do you come here? To post false statements like this because you are upset you can't find one thing that qualifies as evidence so you attack with posts about why you lost arguments on 911. All your sources are garbage and you can't post evidence to save them from the pit of ignorance.

Dr. Super-nano-thermite-Jones is the most personable person while he spews lies and insanity on 911; not a good reason to believe him. It is the classic suspend skepticism he is a college professor he knows his stuff. He lies and then spawns people like Gage who are either dumber than dirt or in it for the money since he was laid off by the "NWO" evil empire run by PNAC and Dick-shot-my-friend-in-the-face-can't-cover-up-squat-Cheney. Dick is the massive army for PNAC and his wife took away his shotgun! Your position is total non-sense and you seem to ignore that fact. What drives your failed ideas on 911? Hate? Political bias? Need to apologize for terrorists?
... We few "truthers" that do post here do so knowing full well the reception we will receive without fear of that reception, because we know exactly what it means. If only you had the courage to try your tactics outside this environment.
Did you have a tactic meeting? Got a book on how to avoid posting evidence on 911 without really trying?

You have no evidence. If you understood the evidence you would not support liars. Post a truther conclusion verified with evidence.

There are few truthers here because intelligent people who fall for the lies of 911TruthLies finally comprehend the 911Liars Movement is false information. They overcame their false ideas on 911 by using critical thinking, skepticism, knowledge, sound judgment, logic, and thinking for themselves.
 
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This really puts me in mind of the group grooming sessions I see here among the debunkers. I saw it last night during the Richard Gage coast-to-coast broadcast. Some of you were posting a blow-by-blow account of what he was saying and as time went on your confidence levels grew very low. Approching desperation even. Then the grooming began with group ridiculing of Gage at which your confidence levels started to rise again. Without the group though there would have been no reinforcement of your empty confidence. It was an interesting study, just as with the monkeys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...www.911blogger.com/&hl=en&v=KZeiSKnhOBc&gl=US
 
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This really puts me in miind of the group grooming sessions i see here among the debunkers. I saw it last night during the Richard Gage coast-to-coast broadcast. Some of you were posting a blow-by-boe ccount of what he was saying and as time went on your confidence levels grew very low. Approching desperation even. Then the grooming began with group ridiculing of Gage at which your confidence levels started to rise again. Without the group though there eould hvve een no reinforcement of your empty confidence. It was an interesting study, just as with the monkeys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...www.911blogger.com/&hl=en&v=KZeiSKnhOBc&gl=US

bill...we got why you posted the video. I was being sarcastic, because the same group think that I admit, does go on here from time to time, is also prevalent in the truther world as well.

TAM:)
 
On the moderated continuation NSA thread i have asked Ultima1 a few questions in one post(post 36). I was unsurprised at his initial response to me (contradicts what he has been stateing) but feel that more is forthcoming. I have asked another question in response in the hope that we will finally get some answers. Unfortunately that thread is taking some time to authorise the posts. I dont want you to go away Roger so stay tuned. You are at last beginning to reveal yourself.
 
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I read a post while browsing this forum on my lunch break at work. Someone had posted a video of some in the truth movement using thermite to try to cut a something steel in half. Said something about paying 20.000 for (not sure if thats 20,000 or 20 :) ) I don't have flash at work, so I was unable to watch the video. Now I can't seem to find it, and the search function didn't produce any results. Anyone remember what thread that was in?
 
This really puts me in mind of the group grooming sessions I see here among the debunkers. I saw it last night during the Richard Gage coast-to-coast broadcast. Some of you were posting a blow-by-blow account of what he was saying and as time went on your confidence levels grew very low. Approching desperation even. Then the grooming began with group ridiculing of Gage at which your confidence levels started to rise again. Without the group though there would have been no reinforcement of your empty confidence. It was an interesting study, just as with the monkeys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...www.911blogger.com/&hl=en&v=KZeiSKnhOBc&gl=US


What, specifically, did Gage get right? Oh, nothing, you say? Wait, you didn't mean that. He gots lots of stuff right. Okay, tell us what he got right. Imagine he's testifying before a congressional investigating committee. He blows the lid off the whole gigantic conspiracy with...with...with what, exactly?
 
No it hasn't. All we've seen is poorly written "reports" by unqualified "experts". No evidence to bring forth; nothing at all provided by the 911 liar movement

Please present this evidence
looks like Steve-0 has zero.
I love it when posters come here and gripe about the spin machine, but never actually post anything related to the subject to actually debate.

As to the "spin machine" I guess if applying evidence based standards to a theory is the "spin machine", then guilty as charged.

He will not argue a specific point, because he knows we have all the proof to adequately debunk any issue he brings...so he complains about debating techniques etc...

TAM:)
Ah well..so much for Steve Austin facilitating an open discussion. I gather that he has no personal beliefs or,even, an opinion on what happened on 9/11. That makes me wonder why he even takes the time to post here.
You can't win an argument on 911 because you have no evidence

Absolutely, we can have a real discussion about this where we can all discuss the OCT in great detail...just come here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/10/caught_up_in_a_conspiracy_theo.html?page=1#comments

It's a nice neutral (well it's the BBC, so the site is more OCT oriented, but the blogs seemed to be handled in a neutral manner) place where we have been discussing all sorts of 9/11 topics. Over 3100 posts to date.

The mods are neutral and non-partisan, they do not participate in the discussion at all.

So come on over everyone and I will gladly discuss anything you want. Though we have already covered many many topics.

Wouldn't it be nice for you all to get out of this little world you have all created here and see what the real world is like outside?
 
This really puts me in mind of the group grooming sessions I see here among the debunkers. I saw it last night during the Richard Gage coast-to-coast broadcast. Some of you were posting a blow-by-blow account of what he was saying and as time went on your confidence levels grew very low. Approching desperation even. Then the grooming began with group ridiculing of Gage at which your confidence levels started to rise again. Without the group though there would have been no reinforcement of your empty confidence. It was an interesting study, just as with the monkeys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?featur...www.911blogger.com/&hl=en&v=KZeiSKnhOBc&gl=US

LOL I wish I could have seen that...but I've been busy. Tomorrow is the 11th after all.
 
Absolutely, we can have a real discussion about this where we can all discuss the OCT in great detail...just come here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/10/caught_up_in_a_conspiracy_theo.html?page=1#comments

It's a nice neutral (well it's the BBC, so the site is more OCT oriented, but the blogs seemed to be handled in a neutral manner) place where we have been discussing all sorts of 9/11 topics. Over 3100 posts to date.

The mods are neutral and non-partisan, they do not participate in the discussion at all.

So come on over everyone and I will gladly discuss anything you want. Though we have already covered many many topics.

Wouldn't it be nice for you all to get out of this little world you have all created here and see what the real world is like outside?

So you admit that you came here but are not interested in any debate. Well, unless you consider entirely transparent attempts of covering up the fact that you have nothing by attempting to poison the well debate. Given that you got destroyed when you started a thread here and tried to push your lies, I can see your hesitance to do any actual debate here.

Anyway, this place is moderated in a neutral manner also. Twoofers are free to push their garbage so long as they don't break any rules. Twoofers and debunkers alike who break the rules are punished. Hell, they will probably ban me if I get any more infractions. However, most posters here are anti-twoofer because this is a skeptic forum and twoofers have no evidence whatsoever in their favor. In that sense, I do see your hesitance of pushing your lies here. They will be easily spotted and you'll be forced to run away with your tail between your legs.

Oh, and I didn't realize that the comments section of some blog post on the BBC was the real world. :rolleyes:
 
Can someone remind me why Gage has any credibility trying to pass off other structures as having the same performance criteria as the twin towers? If case studies were his objective, then he's seriously failed to do one properly if he believes structures using different materials and design plans will all perform universally the same. I'm rather disappointed that he repeated this egregious error without ever flinching. Moreover, I feel pity for the individuals who fell for it hook, line and sinker...
 
So you admit that you came here but are not interested in any debate.

1 Carry your opponent’s proposition beyond its natural limits; exaggerate it.

Well, unless you consider entirely transparent attempts of covering up the fact that you have nothing by attempting to poison the well debate. Given that you got destroyed when you started a thread here and tried to push your lies, I can see your hesitance to do any actual debate here.

Yes it always seems important for some "debunkers" to claim that they "pwned" or "destroyed" the "ignorant truthers"

I showed the "debunker" fallacies for what they were and what they are. The fact that I no longer post there might be because I have already proven you wrong and don't see the need to jump through "debunker" hoops so they can try and reclaim some ground through more smoke and mirrors.

But you keep believing what you want there!

Anyway, this place is moderated in a neutral manner also.

No it's not. In all the moderated threads I've participated in I've had 8 out of 10 posts completely blocked all for reasons of being "off-topic" while all I was doing was responding to questions. Yet when I've reported "debunkers" for being off-topic (at least 30-35 times now) only a couple of those did the mods feel the need to agree and decided to threathen me to stop reporting people, saying I was spamming the reporting feature...but heck off-topic is off-topic isn't it?

Besides, anyone who can try and claim that a forum where the moderators are open supporters of the OCT and actually participate in these discussions really should have his head examined.

In that sense, I do see your hesitance of pushing your lies here. They will be easily spotted and you'll be forced to run away with your tail between your legs.

So are you implying you will not be able to spot my "lies" on any other forums, or blogs? How does that work? Is the JREF forum special in that it allows people to see lies that are hidden if said exactly the same way in other places?

This seems like a pretty lame excuse to me.

Oh, and I didn't realize that the comments section of some blog post on the BBC was the real world. :rolleyes:

Well look at it as getting out of your house for a little bit and seeing a little bit more of the world. Try thinking outside that box for a change
 
Poor disadvantaged Steve-0, Wheres my Violin?

You see Steve-0. We don't care what you post on "blogs" or BBC or whatever. We respond to posts here in the JREF skeptics community which coincidentally. You are a member of. If you feel the moderation at JREF is unfair to you. Take it up in forum management.
 
You see Steve-0. We don't care what you post on "blogs" or BBC or whatever. We respond to posts here in the JREF skeptics community which coincidentally. You are a member of. If you feel the moderation at JREF is unfair to you. Take it up in forum management.

It's the latest truther tactic A.W. - Accusing us of group think, comparing us to monkeys, claiming were in a "comfort zone" that we need to get away from. I've noticed the trend lately. Just another way of attacking the arguer, not the argument.;)
 
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Absolutely, we can have a real discussion about this where we can all discuss the OCT in great detail...just come here...

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/theeditors/2008/10/caught_up_in_a_conspiracy_theo.html?page=1#comments

It's a nice neutral (well it's the BBC, so the site is more OCT oriented, but the blogs seemed to be handled in a neutral manner) place where we have been discussing all sorts of 9/11 topics. Over 3100 posts to date.

The mods are neutral and non-partisan, they do not participate in the discussion at all.

So come on over everyone and I will gladly discuss anything you want. Though we have already covered many many topics.

Wouldn't it be nice for you all to get out of this little world you have all created here and see what the real world is like outside?


So, can we put this rather tiresome thread to bed? Can we assume that you will not become the first "truther" to show that elusive piece of actual evidence for your silly movement's absurd claims?
 
It's the latest truther tactic A.W. - Accusing us of group think, comparing us to monkeys, claiming were in a "comfort zone" that we need to get away from. I've noticed the trend lately. Just another way of attacking the arguer, not the argument.;)

Yes I had pointed that out a page back
http://www.internationalskeptics.com/forums/showpost.php?p=4799487&postcount=196

when backed into a corner- poison the well


http://www.fallacyfiles.org/poiswell.html
Exposition:

To poison the well is to commit a pre-emptive ad hominem strike against an argumentative opponent. As with regular ad hominems, the well may be poisoned in either an abusive or circumstantial way.
 
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