Chávez: America Bad, Russia Good.

[Pardalis]

????

How are Venezuelans going to know if it's a good idea or not if the opposition is silenced?

 

[DC]

How are Venezuelans going to know if it's a good idea or not if the opposition is silenced?

they are silenced?

http://english.eluniversal.com/2009/03/27/en_ing_esp_everybody-knows-we_27A2272065.shtml

 

[quixotecoyote]

Time wil tell if the Venezuelans "care" or not to have a foreign military base near their borders.

True enough, even though there are already quite a few.

Forgive the Portuguese, but Brazil had the best map.

http://www.radiobras.gov.br/especiais/euamerica/mapa.php

Orange is a full advance base.

Blue is military, radars and tracks of take-off.

Green is just military, often just advisers.

I believe there was quite a bit of kerfluffle when the presence in Columbia happened.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

then Socialism and Communism didnt kill anyone

No that's not true. Socialism, sure I'd buy that it hasn't killed anyone. However, Communism is a form of government as much as it is a vague economic theory. The comparison between capitalism and communism in terms of death toll is a non-sequitor as capitalism is not a form of government.

 

[Pardalis]

I believe there was quite a bit of kerfluffle when the presence in Columbia happened.

Yes, we must leave those drug cartels alone.

 

[stilicho]

when i look at our countrys debt, i would think we had a nonstop crisis from 1930 to today.

Consumer debt as a per cent of GDP is certainly higher. Government and corporate debt are lower. And the US is not in a price deflationary mode.

Frankly, there's no comparison.

 

[quixotecoyote]

Yes, we must leave those drug cartels alone.

The trees are whispering waves of candy.

 

[stilicho]

So whatever Chavez does, it's de facto the people's will?

The question isn't whether or not there should be a Russian naval base in Venezuela. Right now it's the question of how they'd do that. Would Chavez pay for it? The Russians sure can't afford it. And what would they base there? They scarcely have enough ships for their present obligations.

 

[Tailgater]

IMO, It's not so much that he will as much as giving the finger to America that he can.

 

[Childlike Empress]

IMO, It's not so much that he will as much as giving the finger to America that he can.

Exactly. I don't think that the russians have any serious interest in having a base on that island. Their official reactions were quite reserved anyway. But it's a great opportunity to send the message "you keep messing around in eastern europe and central asia, we come to the americas" to the Obama administration. Given the recent events in the czech republic and the signals send by Obama, it's highly unlikely that Bush's "missile shield" will be realized anyway - and neighter will a russian base on La Orchila.

 

[JihadJane]

So there have been no financial crises in the US, its trading partners, or its markets between the 1930s and today? Think carefully before you answer.

Think carefully before you ask your questions.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Think carefully before you ask your questions.

LOL, what kind of answer is that?

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

I still don't see how this translates into me thinking that "Putin is the salvation of the world".

See below.

The only crimes I have mentioned are US America's financial crimes, which represent historic irresponsibility.

Which is why the Soviet Union is currently the world leader and the United States is not the oldest democracy and capitalist nation in the world. Oh wait...

Where have I glorified Russia?

Specifically by trying your hardest to make America out to be the bad guy and calling Putin's dictatorship he has going on "responsible world leadership".

I have said that Putin "took up the mantle of leadership and control that the UK and US have lost with their disastrous economic policies" and that "Russia is taking up the baton of responsible world leadership now that the US financial criminal delinquency has been so starkly exposed."

Which what I said you said above. You're glorfying Russia and playing at historical revisionist with events that are still happening. If the United States has such a horrible and irresponsible economy why then exactly is it outperforming everyone else in the world so greatly, especially Russia? Before the economic downturn Russia had a GDP of $733 billion and the US in 2008 had a GDP of nearly $14 trillion. If the US economy is as shattered and hopeless as you seem to wish it were why are we still doing so well?

Putin's speech appears to represent an honest, responsible and realistic assessment of and approach to the world's economic crisis. Perhaps you think otherwise.

I do think otherwise, it's redundant to say that I think otherwise because I've made it so damned clear by now.

To my mind, I am simply describing historical events.

No, you're describing events that are still happening and playing revisionist early on.

Your belief that I am glorifying Russia and that this therefore means I think "Putin is the salvation of the world" is your interpretation, not what I think.

Then please explain how he has taken the mantle of "responsible world leader" from the United States.

 

[RandFan]

US America is likely facing a situation worse than the Great Depression. It is indeed "dire".

? Based on what theory?

The financial crash was brought about by removing safeguards, among others, put in place after the Great Depression.

Financial Coup d’Etat

http://solari.com/blog/?p=2058#more-2058

The Fed Did Indeed Cause the Housing Bubble

http://solari.com/blog/?p=2293

“In 1995, a senior Clinton Administration official shared with me the Administration’s targets for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage volumes in low- and moderate-income communities. We had recently reviewed the Administration’s plans to increase government mortgage guarantees — most of these mortgages would also be pooled and sold as securities to investors. Even in 1995, I could see that these plans would create unserviceable debt loads in communities struggling with the falling incomes expected from globalization. Homeowners would default on mortgages while losses on mortgage-backed securities would drain retirement savings from 401(k)s and pension plans. Taxpayers would ultimately be hit with a large bill . . . but insiders would make a bundle. I looked at the official and said that the Administration was planning on issuing more mortgages than there were houses or residents. “Shut up, this is none of your business,” the official snapped back.”

Sub-prime Mortgage Woes Are No Accident

http://solari.com/news/announcements/08-07-07/

The scam continues:

How the Scam Works: The "Free Market" at Work, Financial Style

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12929[/quote]

Perhaps you should change your avatar and user name to chiclen little.

Jane, the sky is not falling. Oh, and BTW, there's no grand conspiracy either. Take it to the CT forum.

 

[RandFan]

War in Afghanistan
War in Korea
War in Vietnam

? America didn't want what happened to 10's of millions of people in China and the Soviet Union to happen in America.

We were fighting a war to prevent the spread of communism. Perhaps our actions were ill advised and we abused our power and made mistakes and commited crimes. I'll concede to those, but these are NOT analogs of Communist oppression, genocide and imprisonment of political prisoners. We didn't strip the freedom of our own people nor did we strip the freedom of the South Vietnamese or South Koreans.

Bad, bad analogy.

Try again.

 

[RandFan]

i see it like this.

those that start and push wars are the ones fighting (or letting it fight) for power and influence etc, not really for ideology.

Well, it's an opinion. There's some truth to it but it's rather two dimensional and shallow. Simple answers for complex problems are almost always wrong or at least mostly wrong.

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

I started a thread critisizing America for the bomb and boy did I get my ass handed to me.

I don't think America is innocent. I don't think America is an evil empire either. Hell, I didn't even agree with the Reagan rhetoric about the Soviet Union and they actually murdered tens of millions.

It's the constant drone of the evil empire US meme that drives me nuts. A little honesty would be nice from time to time.

I think I was pretty honest. Tax-payin' Americans have no moral authority to say ANYTHING when it comes to what china does, or what russia did, or what venezuela is doing or what sudan does.

Jews and Americans alike supported hitler! So don't play holy. When Russia plants a base in Bolivia you can't say anything. You have bases in places where the people hate your guts. Americans have wiped out millions of Iraqis and Afghanis and native americans and indirectly wiped out billions!

To quote MLK, "The United States of America is the largest purveyor of violence in the world"

And how!

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

Putin is the de facto dictator of Russia. And you certainly seem to be going out of your way to glorify Russia and whitewash their crimes with American crimes.

Wait, Is putin carrying out drone attacks on Children in pakistan right now or is he trying to get on a gold standard? So, putin, RIGHT NOW, is spending his country into zimbabwe inflation?

Those damn glass houses!

 

[RandFan]

I think I was pretty honest. Tax-payin' Americans have no moral authority to say ANYTHING when it comes to what china does, or what russia did, or what venezuela is doing or what sudan does.

Jews and Americans alike supported hitler! So don't play holy. When Russia plants a base in Bolivia you can't say anything. You have bases in places where the people hate your guts. Americans have wiped out millions of Iraqis and Afghanis and native americans and indirectly wiped out billions!

To quote MLK, "The United States of America is the largest purveyor of violence in the world"

And how!

Appeal to authority. And though I have great respect for him it was pure nonsense then and it's nonsense now.

Communism killed 100,000,000 people and threw 10's of millions more into prisons and gulags, stripped freedoms and made the lives of their citizens a living hell.

And honesty means to acknowledge that I'm NOT acting hollier than thou. I have admited America's crimes. I don't claim we are innocent.

But our crimes PALE in comparison and you know it. Or you should. But hey, I'll give you the opportunity to learn.

Show me the proof that America murdered even 10's of millions and imprisoned 10's of millions more compared to China's roughly 50 million?

How 'bout it?

I didn't think so.

 

[RandFan]

Wait, Is putin carrying out drone attacks on Children in pakistan right now...

Are you saying that America is intentionally targeting children? And isn't that a bit convenient to pick your time for comparison? And do you completely dismiss the oppression of the Chechnyan's? And yeah, I think you could do better in the honesty department. I've been more than fair to Chavez. I've conceded that it is a politically smart move. I've conceded America's sins.

You miss the point by miles. It's the hypocrisy of Chavez we are talking about. It's Chavez that is attacking America on one side of his mouth and hugging Putin on the left.

Let's keep focus.