Chávez: America Bad, Russia Good.

[JihadJane]

Could you elaborate?

We are in a serious situation but it's no where near dire. Historically there have been much, much worse. For America the great depression comes to mind.

In any event, if we are to be intelectually honest, the finacial mess is the result of greed, arrogance and human falibility. There's no grand CT nor is this simpy the result of crimes.

The fact is that there's really no economic or political system to ensure that humans don't #@$% up. The Nestle fiasco I pointed out earlier was the result of a Swiss company.

At the end of the day, the truth is, the sky really isn't falling. Perspective would be nice. No one said that capitalism or socialism could gurantee there would never be people who would exploit the system for their personal gain to the detriment of others. That's the nature of economic systems.

US America is likely facing a situation worse than the Great Depression. It is indeed "dire".

The financial crash was brought about by removing safeguards, among others, put in place after the Great Depression.

Financial Coup d’Etat

http://solari.com/blog/?p=2058#more-2058

The Fed Did Indeed Cause the Housing Bubble

http://solari.com/blog/?p=2293

“In 1995, a senior Clinton Administration official shared with me the Administration’s targets for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage volumes in low- and moderate-income communities. We had recently reviewed the Administration’s plans to increase government mortgage guarantees — most of these mortgages would also be pooled and sold as securities to investors. Even in 1995, I could see that these plans would create unserviceable debt loads in communities struggling with the falling incomes expected from globalization. Homeowners would default on mortgages while losses on mortgage-backed securities would drain retirement savings from 401(k)s and pension plans. Taxpayers would ultimately be hit with a large bill . . . but insiders would make a bundle. I looked at the official and said that the Administration was planning on issuing more mortgages than there were houses or residents. “Shut up, this is none of your business,” the official snapped back.”

Sub-prime Mortgage Woes Are No Accident

http://solari.com/news/announcements/08-07-07/

The scam continues:

How the Scam Works: The "Free Market" at Work, Financial Style

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12929

 

[applecorped]

Chavez is just mad that he lost to de la Hoya.....twice!!

 

[funk de fino]

Edited by chillzero: 

Edited quote for civility, and response for topic.

 

[quarky]

Its getting more apparent everyday, that we're all in this together.
Pride in our various "isms" isn't going to help much.
All nations have some crap in their history. Individuals do too.
We could spend a lifetime digging up the crap; analysing it; defending it.

Meanwhile, some serious problems are brewing, and none will be immune.

Is this too "hippy"?

We need something akin to a global group therapy session.
Otherwise, all the energy goes to defense.
When the security system costs more than the house, its a fail.

 

[funk de fino]

Its getting more apparent everyday, that we're all in this together.
Pride in our various "isms" isn't going to help much.
All nations have some crap in their history. Individuals do too.
We could spend a lifetime digging up the crap; analysing it; defending it.

Meanwhile, some serious problems are brewing, and none will be immune.

Is this too "hippy"?

We need something akin to a global group therapy session.
Otherwise, all the energy goes to defense.
When the security system costs more than the house, its a fail.

Unfortunately some folk want it to fail and need it to fail.

Usually paranoid folks who post about peak oil and CIA drugtrafficking.

 

[Tailgater]

A pure economic -ism is not really good in any form. To defend or rail against either is idiotic. People die for a large mix of economic, political, geographical and other things that have no one sided -ism behind them. Imbalance of anything is a problem. The lines drawn over death counts and cute little -ism quotes combined with the sky is falling mentality makes this thread quite the humorous one.

 

[Tailgater]

I think the problem with the whole debate about capitalism vs. socialism is that we far too often look at them from an abstract and ideological point of view. If we consider Scandinavia as a prime example of hybrid systems, we must take into account that they are not necessary 'designed' that way; they have evolved into such from pragmatic concerns. Heck, even Finland had a civil war break out with conflicting ideologies on each side. Fortunately, insanity had to give way for a more pragmatic approach on how to organize the country. In a sense, people had to realize that a young small nation with limited resources and people had to somehow accommodate a unitary sense if identity or simply crumble into a back yard for some larger power. Hence, the basis for a hybrid system as a consequence was a natural outgrowth.

I think much of the problems in Latin America is due to forces trying to export and implement either ideology in their "purest" forms. Neither work. Like Randfand has alluded to, the socialist revolutions didn't end up into utopias. But on the same token, exporting capitalism, or in fact, demanding capitalist reforms, didn't end up too well either.

People haven't forgotten that the demands of privatization from the World Bank or I.M.F. in exchange for loans was a fiasco. It's what happens when governments let ideologues like the Chicago boys run amok and experiment. What they did was to try to export a form of capitalism that U.S. citizens probably would have rioted against themselves. For example, I'm thinking about Bechtel and the privatization of water in Bolivia (including rainwater; where people had to obtain a permit in order to collect it) which was more or less forced upon them by the World Bank. The New Yorker ran a good story about it here: "Leasing the Rain"

Now it appears that the pendulum is yet again swinging in the other direction. But with each swing the movement is a bit lesser. The rhetorics might be the same – see Chavez – but the acts will be more pragmatic. Thus we won't see ideologically driven revolutions like in the past, nor will we probably see hard-core capitalist ideologues trying to infest whole nations either. It is slowly getting into balance, hopefully. An outgrowth of the balancing act is that the U.S. has less to say about affairs of others.

I liked this post. The growing pains of evolution is hard baby. Darwin applies to more than just biology.

 

[DC]

Isn't it nice that we can simply declare something as true and it is?

• Stalins Purges.
• Mao's cultural revolution and great leap forward.
• Pol Pot's killing fields.
• Cinese and Soviet Gulags

And the Capitalism analogs?

War in Afghanistan
War in Korea
War in Vietnam

Anti-Democratic but Pro-Capitalistic actions
Coup against Arbenz and installment of Dictator Carlos Castillo Armas
Installment of Schah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in Iran
Support of Nicaragua's Contras terrorism
Support of Terrorism against Cuba
Dominican Republic topling of Juan Bosch
Brazil topling of João Goulart
Installment of Hadji Mohamed Suharto
9/11/73 killing of Salvador Allende and installment of Augusto Pinochet Ugarte
support of UNITA in Angola
El salvador

then a huge list of the WTO where they took heavy influence or even more to pass true their Free trade scam and privatisation of public services.
for examplke as already mentioned, Water in Bolivia abd almost all of SA.

Unhuman conditions for workers in sweatshop countrys.

and so on.

 

[DC]

Its getting more apparent everyday, that we're all in this together.
Pride in our various "isms" isn't going to help much.
All nations have some crap in their history. Individuals do too.
We could spend a lifetime digging up the crap; analysing it; defending it.

Meanwhile, some serious problems are brewing, and none will be immune.

Is this too "hippy"?

We need something akin to a global group therapy session.
Otherwise, all the energy goes to defense.
When the security system costs more than the house, its a fail.

very true

its also important to look beyond one owns ideology to maybe spot a good solution

i look into Silvio Gesell atm.

 

[Tailgater]

US America is likely facing a situation worse than the Great Depression. It is indeed "dire".

The financial crash was brought about by removing safeguards, among others, put in place after the Great Depression.

Financial Coup d’Etat

http://solari.com/blog/?p=2058#more-2058

The Fed Did Indeed Cause the Housing Bubble

http://solari.com/blog/?p=2293

“In 1995, a senior Clinton Administration official shared with me the Administration’s targets for Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac mortgage volumes in low- and moderate-income communities. We had recently reviewed the Administration’s plans to increase government mortgage guarantees — most of these mortgages would also be pooled and sold as securities to investors. Even in 1995, I could see that these plans would create unserviceable debt loads in communities struggling with the falling incomes expected from globalization. Homeowners would default on mortgages while losses on mortgage-backed securities would drain retirement savings from 401(k)s and pension plans. Taxpayers would ultimately be hit with a large bill . . . but insiders would make a bundle. I looked at the official and said that the Administration was planning on issuing more mortgages than there were houses or residents. “Shut up, this is none of your business,” the official snapped back.”

Sub-prime Mortgage Woes Are No Accident

http://solari.com/news/announcements/08-07-07/

Opinion. At least it satisfies your addiction.

The scam continues:

How the Scam Works: The "Free Market" at Work, Financial Style

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=12929

The National Enquirer for truthers. That site explains alot.

 

[stilicho]

The financial crash was brought about by removing safeguards, among others, put in place after the Great Depression.

So there have been no financial crises in the US, its trading partners, or its markets between the 1930s and today? Think carefully before you answer.

 

[DC]

So there have been no financial crises in the US, its trading partners, or its markets between the 1930s and today? Think carefully before you answer.

when i look at our countrys debt, i would think we had a nonstop crisis from 1930 to today.

 

[Tailgater]

War in Afghanistan
War in Korea
War in Vietnam

Capitalism?

Anti-Democratic but Pro-Capitalistic actions
Coup against Arbenz and installment of Dictator Carlos Castillo Armas
Installment of Schah Mohammad Reza Pahlavi in Iran
Support of Nicaragua's Contras terrorism
Support of Terrorism against Cuba
Dominican Republic topling of Juan Bosch
Brazil topling of João Goulart
Installment of Hadji Mohamed Suharto
9/11/73 killing of Salvador Allende and installment of Augusto Pinochet Ugarte
support of UNITA in Angola
El salvador

then a huge list of the WTO where they took heavy influence or even more to pass true their Free trade scam and privatisation of public services.
for examplke as already mentioned, Water in Bolivia abd almost all of SA.

Unhuman conditions for workers in sweatshop countrys.

and so on.

Don't forget Coca-Cola. Those bastards.

 

[DC]

Capitalism?



Don't forget Coca-Cola. Those bastards.

yes war to prevent another system beeing installed, and make sure the own capitalistic system is installed.

 

[Tailgater]

yes war to prevent another system beeing installed, and make sure the own capitalistic system is installed.

And those wars were simply about an economic system? How narrow.

And the Soviet Bloc/Cold War was just about communism and not about political power and geotactical advantages after WW2?

I know when I think about threats around the world I focus on what economic system they use.

 

[DC]

And those wars were simply about an economic system? How narrow.

And the Soviet Bloc/Cold War was just about communism and not about political power and geotactical advantages after WW2?

I know when I think about threats around the world I focus on what economic system they use.

No, sure russia wanted also to expand, and sure not just to bring better live to other nations, they wanted power. Just like other countrys

But mainly it was 2 conflicting way of lives.

 

[Tailgater]

No, sure russia wanted also to expand, and sure not just to bring better live to other nations, they wanted power. Just like other countrys

But mainly it was 2 conflicting way of lives.

I seem to remember it being more about Soviet/Chinese controlled countries not allowing people to leave or have any kind of free speech once they assumed control as opposed to the West. "Communist" was the generic way to label them all and instill fear of "communism". That's the difference in "way of life" that I remember. Or do you think there is more of a connection between the two?

 

[DC]

I seem to remember it being more about Soviet/Chinese controlled countries not allowing people to leave or have any kind of free speech once they assumed control as opposed to the West. "Communist" was the generic way to label them all and instill fear of "communism". That's the difference in "way of life" that I remember. Or do you think there is more of a connection between the two?

im not sure i understand what you wanted to tell me

im not a communist

 

[Pardalis]

Putin at Davos:

Oh well yeah, of course, since Putin said it then it must be true! Right... And an ex KGB on top of that...

Most of Asia and parts of Africa, Europe and South America.
The world is watching power shift away from the US.

Yeah, what a great world of freedom it'll be when they take control!

 

[Pardalis]

Hmm.. how narrow you are.

Well thank you, I've been trying to get back in shape.