Chávez: America Bad, Russia Good.

[Pardalis]

The kooks are back, as soon as they start to post the thread dies, sorry Randfan.

 

[JihadJane]

The kooks are back, as soon as they start to post the thread dies, sorry Randfan.

I'm sure Randfan will forgive you.

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

Hee hee! Is that the US whose institutionalized financial corruption and rampant banksterism brought the world’s financial system to its knees?






Corrupt US power is crumbling rapidly. Its reputation is in tatters on multiple fronts . Russia is taking up the baton of responsible world leadership now that the US financial criminal delinquency has been so starkly exposed.

True dat!

The US ponzi scheme has been exposed. I say good riddance. I'm glad the fake american economy and their way of life is done. The hypocrisy sickens me. People that thought the last 50 years were productive are NUTS! this is good news. Now a new age can come out of this. An age of peace love and understanding. All that good stuff. No more of a way of life where you have no universal health care, or a way of life where you are sentenced to 50 years in prison for selling weed. This whole prison industrial complex, military industrial complex, war on drugs, war on poverty fiasco is coming to an end and I say THANK GOD! It's about time! the world will be a better place[/rant

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Well it didn't take too long for Chavez' JREF apologists and the anti-America loons to hop all over this thread.

I'm starting a betting pool for just how long it'll take one of them to Godwin the thread.

 

[plumjam]

The kooks are back, as soon as they start to post the thread dies, sorry Randfan.

Hmm.. how narrow you are.

 

[malcolmxwarrior]

Well it didn't take too long for Chavez' JREF apologists and the anti-America loons to hop all over this thread.

I'm starting a betting pool for just how long it'll take one of them to Godwin the thread.

Wait, so America did NOT support Saddam Huissein during the Iran-Iraq war?

America did not support the shah in Iran which kille hundrends or people.

America does not support Israel who slaughters innocent children in palestine?

America did not suport Suharto in East timor when he slaughtered thousands of civilians in Indonesia?

Oh, my bad =)

Your canards fail.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Wait, so America did NOT support Saddam Huissein during the Iran-Iraq war?

America did not support the shah in Iran which kille hundrends or people.

America does not support Israel who slaughters innocent children in palestine?

America did not suport Suharto in East timor when he slaughtered thousands of civilians in Indonesia?

Oh, my bad =)

Your canards fail.

Your argument is a non-sequitor. I never said America is flawless, only that Russia is worse. And the little pipedream between you and JihadJane concerning Russia and anything they do as possibly amounting to "responsible world leadership" is laughable and insulting to the intelligence of anyone with the most brief understanding of Russia and their current situation.

And Israel slaughtering innocent children in Palestine? Since when did that happen? But hey, Russia was full of antisemites too, they gave us the Protocols afterall.

 

[lupus_in_fabula]

If so I guess that's fine so long as his sycophants understand that the ideology of Chávez is by no means pure. His hypocrisy in this regard is naked and undeniable. Painting America out to be the greatest threat to humanity while getting all misty eyed with Russia and ignoring regimes like North Korea and China that threatens war over Taiwan, nations like Iran, Turkey and other Muslim nations that have almost no human rights for citizens demonstrates the lie that Chávez is simply interested in human rights and the advancement of socialism for the good of humanity.

It all boils down to pragmatism and opportunism. Russia is playing hardball because it has the opportunity. I don't think we'll see the airbase manifesting itself, any more than we'll see the S-300 air defense system deployed in Iran. Russia will however expect some favors in exchange for walking away from the table. Maybe even Venezuela might get some negotiation currency from all this?

Power triumphs over concerns of hypocrisy. Venezuela is no different in this regard, especially now that the man himself has rooted his butt to the throne for a long time to come.

 

[JihadJane]

And the little pipedream between you and JihadJane concerning Russia and anything they do as possibly amounting to "responsible world leadership" is laughable and insulting to the intelligence of anyone with the most brief understanding of Russia and their current situation.

Perhaps you missed Vladimir Putin's speech at World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Jan 28th, 2009, in which he took up the mantle of leadership and control that the UK and US have lost with their disastrous economic policies.

"Let's be clear! The Davos Forum was a funeral wake, and Putin rode in on a white horse to announce there is a new sheriff in town!!"

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article8986.html

Putin at Davos:

"In the last few months, virtually every speech on [the global economic crisis] started with criticism of the United States. But I will do nothing of the kind.

I just want to remind you that, just a year ago, American delegates speaking from this rostrum emphasised the US economy's fundamental stability and its cloudless prospects. Today, investment banks, the pride of Wall Street, have virtually ceased to exist. In just 12 months, they have posted losses exceeding the profits they made in the last 25 years. This example alone reflects the real situation better than any criticism."

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21896.htm

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Perhaps you missed Vladimir Putin's speech at World Economic Forum in Davos, Switzerland, Jan 28th, 2009, in which he took up the mantle of leadership and control that the UK and US have lost with their disastrous economic policies.

"Let's be clear! The Davos Forum was a funeral wake, and Putin rode in on a white horse to announce there is a new sheriff in town!!"

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/Article8986.html

Putin at Davos:

"In the last few months, virtually every speech on [the global economic crisis] started with criticism of the United States. But I will do nothing of the kind.

I just want to remind you that, just a year ago, American delegates speaking from this rostrum emphasised the US economy's fundamental stability and its cloudless prospects. Today, investment banks, the pride of Wall Street, have virtually ceased to exist. In just 12 months, they have posted losses exceeding the profits they made in the last 25 years. This example alone reflects the real situation better than any criticism."

http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article21896.htm

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware he had given a speech on it.

Have you ever heard the phrase "You can talk the talk, but you can't walk the walk?" How many countries in the world do you seriously think consider Russia the current world leader? The US may have markets in decline but they're still outdoing Russia economically, the US market is too large and powerful to be taken out by one silly little recession.

 

[JihadJane]

Oh I'm sorry, I wasn't aware he had given a speech on it.

Have you ever heard the phrase "You can talk the talk, but you can't walk the walk?" How many countries in the world do you seriously think consider Russia the current world leader?

Most of Asia and parts of Africa, Europe and South America.

The world is watching power shift away from the US.

Russia and China are co-operatively looking for ways to by-pass the parasitic strangle-hold of the dollar. The US has an energy problem.

The US may have markets in decline but they're still outdoing Russia economically, the US market is too large and powerful to be taken out by one silly little recession.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the US market". Read around a bit if you think this is "one silly little recession". Additionally, much of the US productive capacity and wealth has been exported over the last two decades. Its economy is hollow.

 

[Kthulhut Fhtagn]

Most of Asia and parts of Africa, Europe and South America.

The world is watching power shift away from the US.

Evidence? And for that matter, why should we really care what third world nations have to say about their economies when a good deal of them can't stop killing each other or blowing themselves up to have a working one?

Russia and China are co-operatively looking for ways to by-pass the parasitic strangle-hold of the dollar. The US has an energy problem.

In other words they're looking for ways to make themselves leaders of the world and minimize the effect of the American market. Which means your statement has been refuted thus.

I'm not sure what you mean by "the US market". Read around a bit if you think this is "one silly little recession". Additionally, much of the US productive capacity and wealth has been exported over the last two decades. Its economy is hollow.

I do think it's one silly little recession, it may be the biggest problem facing the US today but that is hardly evidence that a nation who survived the Great Depression will brought down by it. I've yet to see any serious economists say the current recession will result in the utter destruction of the US market and the rise of Russia as the new economic powerhouse. To be matter of fact about this, China and Russia won't become economic powerhouses until they learn to accept free market capitalism.

And are you serious? What exactly do you know about the US economy? First, the United States has been switching to a largely service based economy, but still has more than enough natural resources it can exploit and plenty of labor to do it with. Go ahead, I'll give you a few moments to look up which nations make the most money off of exports per year.

ETA: Interesting side note -- The cost of the United States economic bailout was a number greater than the GDP of Russia before the economic crisis. Apples and oranges probably, but I thought it was interesting.

 

[dudalb]

Corrupt US power is crumbling rapidly. Its reputation is in tatters on multiple fronts . Russia is taking up the baton of responsible world leadership now that the US financial criminal delinquency has been so starkly exposed.

So glad you think a ruthless dictator like Putin is the salvation of the world. That really worked well with Stalin.

 

[dudalb]

True dat!

The US ponzi scheme has been exposed. I say good riddance. I'm glad the fake american economy and their way of life is done. The hypocrisy sickens me. People that thought the last 50 years were productive are NUTS! this is good news. Now a new age can come out of this. An age of peace love and understanding. All that good stuff. No more of a way of life where you have no universal health care, or a way of life where you are sentenced to 50 years in prison for selling weed. This whole prison industrial complex, military industrial complex, war on drugs, war on poverty fiasco is coming to an end and I say THANK GOD! It's about time! the world will be a better place[/rant

Amazed he did not mention the Jews, whose malcolmxwarior beleives are behind all the evil in the world.

 

[dudalb]

The kooks are back, as soon as they start to post the thread dies, sorry Randfan.

I wish some of these people who are so anxious for Russia to be the dominent power would remember what it was like for the people in Eastern Europe to be dominated by Russia.

 

[Childlike Empress]

Of course you have not the slightest clue about that. From experiencing it i am absolutely sure that it was far more enjoyable than for the people of south america to be dominated by the USA during the 20th century.

Russia btw doesn't demand to be the dominant power of the world, and it doesn't pretent to be God's own country formed to bring freedom and democracy to the planet. It demands nothing more than being treated fairly and recognized as a souvereign nation with its own interests. So does Venezuela. Start acting in a way that fits with the motivation you claim to have, and the whole world will love you. Last opportunity was missed by the mass murderer Bush just after 9/11. Oh, what an opportunity you've missed.

Seems like the next opportunity is ruined by Obama right now, but it is too early to finally judge on that. It's your last opportunity.

edit: Nice to see you, RandFan! Not much has changed, I see. You're still struggling to reduce the dissonance. Good luck.

 

[stilicho]

Chávez says yes to Russian base

Putin's Navy, Chávez's Ambition, and the Caribbean Adventure

Putin, Chavez Meet for Talks

....

Too bad South America remains our biggest misadventure.

Sending four surface ships on a goodwill tour isn't anything new. The idea of a Russian naval base in Venezuela is laughable. They might be able to snag a mooring in some existing harbour and call it a naval base but Russia hasn't the resources to keep its current fleet in fighting trim let alone expand it halfway around the world.

Russian admirals earn the equivalent of less than $200 a month. They have to be kept close to Russian waters at all times or there's a risk they may flee with intelligence, documents, technology, or all three.

The largest of the ships sent on this tour is presently the flagship of the Russian Northern Fleet. Are the Russians disbanding their Northern Fleet? Basing it in Venezuela? Not likely.

Much ado about nothing.

 

[dudalb]

Longing for the good old days of East Germany, comrade?

 

[JihadJane]

So glad you think a ruthless dictator like Putin is the salvation of the world. That really worked well with Stalin.

So glad you're still here make up thoughts to put in my head!

I wish some of these people who are so anxious for Russia to be the dominent power would remember what it was like for the people in Eastern Europe to be dominated by Russia.

It hardly seems worth the effort to respond but who has expressed any anxiety for Russia to be the dominant power, Mr/Ms Inventive?

 

[RandFan]

Yeah, America was so concerned about people being murdered, imprisoned and oppressed that it went there to murder, imprison and oppress people in order to prevent that happening.

What in the sam hell are you talking about?

We murdered, imprisoned and oppressed Germans, Japanese and other Europeans? Oh please.

• We could have annexed nations like the Soviets did!
• We didn't!
• Regardless of our motivations those nations were better than the Soviet counterparts and they were free!

Show some intelectual honesty.