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Molten Steel

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Gravy said:
I hate to bring up the obvious, but if an insurance company believed a skyscraper was so likely to fall over that pre-wiring it for demolition was a sensible idea, they wouldn't insure it, nor would anyone build it.

Additionally, this absolutely lunatic conspiracy would require the complicity of multiple insurers, developers, dozens of contractors, engineers, inspectors, and everyone who worked on the guts of the building.
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With the right design and for the right premium you can insure virtually anything .Ask the owners of other tall buidings in densely buit up areas. The Sears Tower for instance....why not ask the owner, Larry Silverstein. For the rest this is not a claim. It's a logical heory.
 
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bill smith said:
With the right design and for the right premium you can insure virtually anything .Ask the owners of other tall buidings in densely buit up areas. The Sears Tower for instance....why not ask the owner, Larry Silverstein. For the rest this is not a claim. It's a logical heory.
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Why don't you find out what the 20 tallest buildings in the US are, find out who built them/owns them, and then ask those people if their buildings were either built with explosives built-in, or built in such a manner so as to allow for an easy emergency controlled demolition, for insurance purposes?

Your theory is in no way logical.
 
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bill smith said:
>snip< For the rest this is not a claim. It's a logical (t)heory.
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It doesn't even begin to reach the level of "theory". It's not even a hypothesis. It's maybe a logical construct, based on conjecture. For it to be even a hypothesis, there has to be some type of evidence to base it on. There isn't one bit of evidence for you to do this. Everything in this idea is completely based on "could have" "might have" "it may have gone down like this" without any physical evidence to show it is what happened.

Please, if you're going to use terms, learn what they mean.
 
Shalamar said:
Logic is pointless here. You need evidence. Testimony from the insurance company that the buildings were 'pre-wired', evidence from the building of the towers themselves. Evidence from those who planted the explosives.

In the CT hypothesis there is so much that could have gone wrong, that it is needlessly complex and involves too many people.

The official story makes more sense 'logically': Buildings hit towers. Towers catch fire. Buildings fall down, and damage other buildings.
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Fom 2003 when the conspiracy theories really got going until 2006 the FBI issued arround 200,000 'National Security Letters' almost all of which had gag-orders attached. There are no figures in the public domain for 2001-2002 unfortunately. That effectively closes 200,000 mouths which covers it pretty well I think. Under a provison of these orders you may not reveal that one has been imposed on you.
 
bill smith said:
Fom 2003 when the conspiracy theories really got going until 2006 the FBI issued arround 200,000 'National Security Letters' almost all of which had gag-orders attached. There are no figures in the public domain for 2001-2002 unfortunately. That effectively closes 200,000 mouths which covers it pretty well I think. Under a provison of these orders you may not reveal that one has been imposed on you.
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Can you link to the source of this information please?
 
bill smith said:
Fom 2003 when the conspiracy theories really got going until 2006 the FBI issued arround 200,000 'National Security Letters' almost all of which had gag-orders attached. There are no figures in the public domain for 2001-2002 unfortunately. That effectively closes 200,000 mouths which covers it pretty well I think. Under a provison of these orders you may not reveal that one has been imposed on you.
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You will have to cite this.
 
And of course, gag orders is all that it would take to keep somebody's mouth shut who was involved in something that they realized on 911 cost 3000 innocent lives. It all makes sense to me now; nobody in the history of the earth has ever risked anything to right an injustice.

Oh. Wait. That's not true at all. Earth's history is FILLED with people who have done that. A simple 'gag order', had one even existed, would have been totally useless. Unless it was a magical gag order. Then yea, I suppose magic could have kept all their mouths shut.
 
Sunstealer said:
It's utterly mad! I don't know whether to laugh or put my head in my hands. It really does show the inside of a truther mind though. Can you imagine the impracticalities of doing this? That one in a million chance that a fire couldn't be fought or a plane smashing into a building so hey lads lets wire the building up just in case! :confused:

I don't know how many tons of explosives demolition companies use but could you imagine the risk of these being stolen? An electrical fault could set of charges, explosives have a shelf life, the whole loony plan is fraught with danger.

Imagine the conversation between the insurer and owner of the building! Our premiums should be less because we have tons of explosives in our building!
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What I ment is that the explosives could have been 'plugged in' to the systyem at any time if they were needed. Not that they were there all along.
 
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bill smith said:
Fom 2003 when the conspiracy theories really got going until 2006 the FBI issued arround 200,000 'National Security Letters' almost all of which had gag-orders attached. There are no figures in the public domain for 2001-2002 unfortunately. That effectively closes 200,000 mouths which covers it pretty well I think. Under a provison of these orders you may not reveal that one has been imposed on you.
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So what? Even to the degree it is true, it has nothing to do with all the engineering analysis and eyewitnesses and evidence we have in support of our understanding of why the WTC towers collapsed and what happened at the Pentagon.

People under gag orders speak out on a regular basis. In other countries,even at risk to their lives. In this country, lots of first responders have died since 9/12/2001 and none of them have made a death-bed statement. The idea that 3,000 firefighters would keep quiet about the cause of the death of 340 friends is silly and insulting. The same goes for people involved with the Pentagon crash.

8 years is an eternity for keeping a secret involving thousands of people.
 
BigAl said:
So what? Even to the degree it is true, it has nothing to do with all the engineering analysis and eyewitnesses and evidence we have in support of our understanding of why the WTC towers collapsed and what happened at the Pentagon.

People under gag orders speak out on a regular basis. In other countries,even at risk to their lives. In this country, lots of first responders have died since 9/12/2001 and none of them have made a death-bed statement. The idea that 3,000 firefighters would keep quiet about the cause of the death of 340 friends is silly and insulting. The same goes for people involved with the Pentagon crash.

8 years is an eternity for keeping a secret involving thousands of people.
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The common wisdom is that "you can't keep secrets in Washington," and that someone always deliberately leaks or inadvertently blabs. But, says Ellsberg, who was privy to some of the most top-secret material for years, "the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public.

This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy... Secrets that would be of the greatest importance to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the Executive Branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders."

http://www.crisispapers.org/Editorials/ellsbergs-secrets.htm


PS he conversation is drawing us off topic. Will we get trouble from the mods ?
 
A National Security Letter is a subpoena that can be challenged in court by the recipient. Since this is the first time I am hearing of it in the context of the "truth" movement, I guarantee that Bill cannot produce a single truther who has received such a subpoena.
 
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BigAl said:
So what? Even to the degree it is true, it has nothing to do with all the engineering analysis and eyewitnesses and evidence we have in support of our understanding of why the WTC towers collapsed and what happened at the Pentagon.

People under gag orders speak out on a regular basis. In other countries,even at risk to their lives. In this country, lots of first responders have died since 9/12/2001 and none of them have made a death-bed statement. The idea that 3,000 firefighters would keep quiet about the cause of the death of 340 friends is silly and insulting. The same goes for people involved with the Pentagon crash.

8 years is an eternity for keeping a secret involving thousands of people.
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This argument, along with the one about people fearing for their jobs, is the most insulting nonsense they toss about. Not only that, but what of the ones that decided to change careers? Hmm? Not one person in that time has decided "I don't want to be a (firefighter/police officer/engineer/whatever) any more" and moved to a different field? One where they wouldn't have to worry about their job any more? Not a single one?
Yeah, I'm certain that's true. No one ever changes their career path. Like leaving the Navy and becoming a PLC/HMI programmer. Never happens.
 
Gravy said:
"The skyscraper is toppling! Quick, get in there and plug in the explosives!"

This doesn't even rise to the level of absurdity.
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I dunno. All they'd have to do is shore it up wif a cuppla 2X4's and they'd be jes fine to do that!!
 
JimBenArm said:
This argument, along with the one about people fearing for their jobs, is the most insulting nonsense they toss about. Not only that, but what of the ones that decided to change careers? Hmm? Not one person in that time has decided "I don't want to be a (firefighter/police officer/engineer/whatever) any more" and moved to a different field? One where they wouldn't have to worry about their job any more? Not a single one?
Yeah, I'm certain that's true. No one ever changes their career path. Like leaving the Navy and becoming a PLC/HMI programmer. Never happens.
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Lots of NYC cops and firemen took early retirement once the cleanup work was done. I know some of those people and meet new people from time to time, most recently an ex-fireman who spends his days at a bar working on his drinking problem and who wants to talk about what happened to him and his friends on and after 9/11. The Mayor of 9/11 and faulty radios are high on his list of things that make him angry. "Inside job" is nowhere.

The overtime rules made retirement after working massive overtime an offer that would be very hard to resist. Lots of them didn't.
 
thewholesoul said:
a didnt provide a definition. so a very telling strawman.
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Congratulations. You've managed to bollix both "definition" and "strawman" [sic] in a single sentence. Now, that, my lad, genuinely qualifies as "telling.":rolleyes:

J. Wellington Wimpy said:
Adhere more closely to these principles, and your woo factor will be greatly reduced as a result.
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thewholesoul said:
are you suggesting NIST adhered to the scientific method?
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As NIST is mentioned nowhere whatsoever in the statement to which you are gibbering, said response does legitimately qualify as a straw man argument, albeit a shockingly incompetent one. The subject being discussed was (and, sadly, remains) your grotesquely elevated woo level. Remedy it, or toddle on back to the kids' table with the other Dyaln Avery wannabes.
 
Gravy said:
I hate to bring up the obvious, but if an insurance company believed a skyscraper was so likely to fall over that pre-wiring it for demolition was a sensible idea, they wouldn't insure it, nor would anyone build it.

Additionally, this absolutely lunatic conspiracy would require the complicity of multiple insurers, developers, dozens of contractors, engineers, inspectors, and everyone who worked on the guts of the building.
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bingo...but you and I are not living in the paranoid world of 9/11 truth, the NWO, and the Iluminati.

TAM:)
 
T.A.M. said:
bingo...but you and I are not living in the paranoid world of 9/11 truth, the NWO, and the Iluminati.

TAM:)
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You really should move here, though. You get to see all kinds of things, like unicorns, BigFoot, and Nessie!
My favorite BigFoot, George, and I are going out to dinner tonight. Wanna join us?
 
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