CONNIE SONNE, Dowser

[chillzero]

You are right, of course. Do you read my comments as if I recommend rudeness, abuse, hostility or intimidation?

That's why I replied to the one I did.

There are other alternatives to "hounding them out" than encouraging "them in their endeavours".

Indeed - that's why I mentioned guidance through their self testing, rather than trying to put them off applying.

If friends of yours ....

Perhaps you missed my comment that I initially came here to apply myself.

Telling her to go ahead and wishing her luck is cynical!

I didn't say that was the only option.
I suggested giving guidance, and enough respect that she will feel comfortable undertaking some self testing, and revealing her results here as she moves along. This proved inredibly informative when Beth did it. I am often sorry I didn't do so myself, but I was subjected to particular bullying, and even without that felt too defensive about posting about my beliefs to actually engage in any meaningful discussion. I just hope for better for other claimants, that's all.



Connie, how would you feel about doing so? Would you discuss some protocols for testing yourself here, undertake the testing and report bak with your findings and conclusions?

 

[GzuzKryzt]

PS Do you guys actually believe in the good luck that you wish Connie Sonne? Or are you just putting a good face on it?

I simply tried to put a good face on it.

I should have said: Best wishes on your path to unbiased self-discovery. Not as catchy though.

 

[connie sonne]

Stop barking.....I will do that myself...right now, . Bye bye,

best regards Connie

 

[dann]

Sorry, I forgot this one:

As for courage, as an 'almost' claimant myself I can tell you that it takes a hell of a lot of nerve to walk in to the lion's den here. You know that the overwhelming majority of the membership believe you to be either deluded or fraudulent.

I don't think that believe is the right word in this context. I think that the word know would be more appropriate.
(And, no, I'm not "playing "god" now". I don't have any supernatural powers at all! I don't need any to arrive at this conclusion.)

 

[Reno]

Connie, at the test, stay cool and calm. That way, when you fail, at least you'll retain some dignity.

 

[Gr8wight]

If this is the case then there's a much simpler protocol for the test.
You stand in one room and a tester stands in the adjacent room and holds up a card. You do the dowsing and guess the card. Results are written down and repeat.
Much simpler than using 40 envelopes and all that.

Unfortunately, Yairhol, this suggestion is counter productive, as it does not address Ms. Sonne's claim. The claim of a dowser is not that he or she can identify an unknown, hidden object, but that he or she can locate a known, hidden object.

The protocol Ms. Sonne has agreed to is an excellent one to test her claimed abilities. There really is no reason for her to engage in discussions here, as she needs no assistance or suggestions from us. Her next step is simply to take the test to which she has already agreed. Further conversation here can only muddy the waters.

Best of luck in your endeavour, Connie.

 

[Miss_Kitt]

Hello, Connie! Greetings from a former dowser.

I discovered that I was not able to do my thing in the absence of someone who knew where the desired object was hidden. From this, I concluded that I was very good at reading the non-verbal clues of the person(s) who were watching me, and that it was their behavior, not the actual object, that was impacting my perceptions--which, in turn, influenced the pendulum movement.

So I'd put myself into the, "Maybe you want to test at home first" group. Unless you are fabulously wealthy, flying from Denmark to the USA is a lot of money! Of course, it is a trip to sunny Florida from the cold and dark Danish winter, so there's that to be said for it.

I was absolutely certain of my ability prior to it being disproved by a fairly simple test that checked for one avenue of self-confusion. So I know how upsetting and unsettling that discovery can be. Hence I, personally, am very glad that my failed test happened among friends, with an absence of public attention.

You are welcome to do whatever makes you happy. Still, it seems to me that there is no cost to you in doing a screening test in Denmark. The folks here (in this thread) will be happy to help you put together a simple protocol that will eliminate some of the more common causes of "apparent dowsing" that proves not to be real.

Best wishes, Miss Kitt

 

[chillzero]

Is this:

Stop barking.....I will do that myself...right now, . Bye bye,

best regards Connie

an answer to this:

Connie, how would you feel about doing so? Would you discuss some protocols for testing yourself here, undertake the testing and report bak with your findings and conclusions?

?

I'm a little confused as to who you are responding to.
(The button marked 'quote' at the bottom of each post will allow you to reply to that specific text, and the button with the " on will allow yuo to select multiple posts to respond to.)

 

[dann]

Stop barking.....I will do that myself...right now, .

My guess is that "I will do that myself" means that Connie Sonne was persuaded that testing herself (and not "barking") might be a good idea.
Great post, Miss Kitt!

 

[GzuzKryzt]

Hello, Connie! Greetings from a former dowser.

I discovered that I was not able to do my thing in the absence of someone who knew where the desired object was hidden. From this, I concluded that I was very good at reading the non-verbal clues of the person(s) who were watching me, and that it was their behavior, not the actual object, that was impacting my perceptions--which, in turn, influenced the pendulum movement.

So I'd put myself into the, "Maybe you want to test at home first" group. Unless you are fabulously wealthy, flying from Denmark to the USA is a lot of money! Of course, it is a trip to sunny Florida from the cold and dark Danish winter, so there's that to be said for it.

I was absolutely certain of my ability prior to it being disproved by a fairly simple test that checked for one avenue of self-confusion. So I know how upsetting and unsettling that discovery can be. Hence I, personally, am very glad that my failed test happened among friends, with an absence of public attention.

You are welcome to do whatever makes you happy. Still, it seems to me that there is no cost to you in doing a screening test in Denmark. The folks here (in this thread) will be happy to help you put together a simple protocol that will eliminate some of the more common causes of "apparent dowsing" that proves not to be real.

Best wishes, Miss Kitt

Nicely put.

 

[steenkh]

So I'd put myself into the, "Maybe you want to test at home first" group. Unless you are fabulously wealthy, flying from Denmark to the USA is a lot of money! Of course, it is a trip to sunny Florida from the cold and dark Danish winter, so there's that to be said for it.

Thanks for reminding me of something I had wondered about: why should the test take place in Florida??

Normally, the JREF has taken great pains to locate a local skeptic group to conduct the test, in order to make the test as inexpensive as possible for the claimant. Why would this test be different?

 

[RemieV]

Thanks for reminding me of something I had wondered about: why should the test take place in Florida??

Normally, the JREF has taken great pains to locate a local skeptic group to conduct the test, in order to make the test as inexpensive as possible for the claimant. Why would this test be different?

We have not reached the point of setting a testing location. The protocol still has to be approved by Randi. The testing location is only decided after the protocol is complete and approved.

 

[dann]

why should the test take place in Florida??

I think that there is only one reason for that: When you know that the universe will help you win dKr. 5.000.000,-, spending dKr. 10.000,- going to Florida is not a problem.
Connie Sonne has already spent tens of thousands of Danish kroners in pursuit of the truth about the Madeleine case. It has now been 1½ days since she told us that she had taken our advice and was going to test herself.
I hope for her that it has made her realize that she doesn’t have any supernatural powers. I also hope that she will stay in contact with us so she can benefit from Miss Kitt’s and chilzero’s experiences, which may have been what made her ‘see the light’.
Connie Sonne, if you are reading this, I want you to notice that you can send private messages in the JREF forum. Not every discussion has to be public.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

...
I hope for her that it has made her realize that she doesn’t have any supernatural powers.
...

...
You must also know, that NOTHING can keep me away from what I`m doing, eventhough someone are trying to convince me, that I`m wrong!
...

(To the tune of "Blowin' In The Wind")

How many tests must an applicant fail
Before she considers the evidence?

 

[dann]

I guess that's up to the individual in question, but Connie Sonne may already be considering the evidence of her own private test.
We have to take into consideration that chillzero and Miss Kitt are exeptions among dowsers. The ideomotor effect is very convincing! I used to ask a now deceased colleage at my highschool, a physics teacher, for advice when I wrote articles for Dansk Skeptica/Para-nyt that touched on the sciences of nature. (I'm an amateur in that field.) Still, he was able to convince himself that dowsing actually worked for him. He even had special dowsing rods custom-made! (Gold-tipped, I think).
However, since he was also partial to the methods of science, he had agreed in principle to making an informal test of his 'powers', but he was ill and died before we could put it into practice.
My guess is that Connie Sonne does not know a lot about the sciences of nature, and she has been on a spree of presenting herself as the mouthpiece of powers beyond our reality for some time. She managed to get herself on Danish TV in May 2008 with her claims that she knew the location of the disappeared child Madeleine. Some of the Danish skeptics discussed that case with her here in October. She has discovered that Facebook is owned and controlled by the CIA. And in this letter to the editor she worries about a conspiracy against the freedom of speech and all the downtrodden and writes that Sandheden kommer frem ... »Før eller senere«! ("The truth shall be revealed ...»Sooner or later«!") It appears to be a kind of Nazi/Marxist conspiracy.
And I cannot think of a way of blaming those on the ideomotor effect!

(However, she also has the time to tell newspaper readers about more mundane matters, e.g. the guys who have been stealing hydrangeas and other plants from her parents' garden for a number of years.)

This is why I think that you should not lead her on! Try to bring her back to reality instead, don't pretend that dowsing just might hold true in her case when you are all very well aware that it doesn't. She is not Sylvia Browne, she is not Uri Geller, so there is no reason why we should recommend that she go ahead and waste her money on being tested in Flordia. She is a believer, she is not a fraud - in spite of her fraudulent beliefs.
And, yes, Steen, it would be possible for her to make the same preliminary test in Denmark.

 

[connie sonne]

hi there, a quick answer, specially for Dann....First...you misunderstood about barking.... I will stop BARKING myself....not that I will do my selftest. I know a lot lot more than you do...It`s not ONLY about dowsing...that`s only a little part of it- I havent told you anything about other things, and I will not do it now. First the challenge, and again, as I told you....much more will come,! Think what you want....I don`t care at all,

Best regards Connie

 

[chillzero]

(off topic correction)
I wasn't a dowser. I believed I was a psychic.

 

[connie sonne]

and Dann....It was NOT me who contacted the televison....they contacted me, and so did the Magazine.....now you know

 

[dann]

hi there, a quick answer, specially for Dann....First...you misunderstood about barking.... I will stop BARKING myself....

You are right! I misunderstood that one!

not that I will do my selftest.

No, I guess you won't. It was always up to you to do so!

I know a lot lot more than you do...It`s not ONLY about dowsing...that`s only a little part of it- I havent told you anything about other things, and I will not do it now.

You are fooling yourself! Your knowledge is imaginary.

First the challenge, and again, as I told you....much more will come,! Think what you want....I don`t care at all,

I don't think that you care. Some of us do, however.

Best regards Connie

Best regards to you too, Connie. I think that you need more than best regards, though.

 

[dann]

(off topic correction)
I wasn't a dowser. I believed I was a psychic.

Well, the main thing is that you got better ...
And Connie Sonne appears to think that she has got all-round paranormal powers, not just dowsing.