CONNIE SONNE, Dowser

[steenkh]

Jackalgirl and Yairhol, where it all comes from, there`s a lot of humor. If it will happen, that I fail the test..there`s a reason. Then I will make the new step afterwards, not by testing again, but something else..Yeah, no matter what is going to happen, I will never make a doubt about my abilities. In a year now, my life and the things I`m doing is like a puzzle, but ALWAYS I do the new step to go on...and I already have many evidences and more will come,.

But the JREF Million Dollar Challenge is going to be terminated next year, so you will only get one more chance, although I am sure that if the challenge had continued, your world view would permit you to fail year after year without getting a dent.

 

[connie sonne]

And for Dann, God dosn`t excist...there is something else. It`s not about belief or faith, it`s about knowing, Our planet is ready for the truth only now, therefore other people couldn`t come through the challenge...they were not allowed to. And about the lectures...yes, a lot of it...it`s a waste of time, and some of it only contains "the half truth".

CFLarsen, no I won`t go for Faaborg, but thank you for your tip.

I do accept critical thinking, but it`s the way people pronounce it... As I wrote above, people can be critical in a friendly way..otherwise they will get it back in the same direction!
I did answer your questions, and I can`t see right now, that I have to write more about it, than I did. As I wrote earlier, there`s comming much more, and when that will take place, you wil get your answers,.
And Dann...you mentioned my english, and I`m sorry that it`s not better than it is, but I`m 45 now, and it feels that it`s 100 years ago, since I last time went to school,
But as I can see...people do understand me, and I do understand them, that`s the most important thing, don`t you agree

 

[connie sonne]

And tó Jackalgirl...and I am very sad to know, how the world and many people are today,

 

[dann]

But as I can see...people do understand me, and I do understand them, that`s the most important thing, don`t you agree

Yes, it is the most important thing, and yes, I do agree!

 

[Jeff Wagg]

Folks, let's give Connie a break here. She's had the courage to come forth and take the challenge, has treated the JREF very respectfully and straightforwardly, and so far is one our most agreeable applicants.

Of course we don't believe she can do what she says until she shows us.. that goes without saying, but let's give her the chance to show us.

 

[Klaymore]

Actually, I kind of dug the whole idea of Ms. Sonne just keeping mum (aside from the first post to let us know she was following the conversation). My anecdotal experience tells me that it's typically a hell of a lot easier to get claimants to talk than to actually take the tests.

Ms. Sonne doesn't have to explain anything to us to take the million dollars; all she has to do is come to the appointed time and place and then do what she says she can do.

The longer the chatter goes on, the less likely that Ms. Sonne will take the test. Someone will say something to offend her, or convince her that the JREF is going to rip her off, or just satisfy her in whatever way is necessary to prevent her from taking the test.

Ms. Sonne, I hope that you'll take the test according to the agreed protocol.

 

[dann]

Jeff, you seem to consider it a criterion of success that people go ahead and take the test. I don’t!

If Connie Sonne comes to her senses before going to Florida, she will save the money for airfare and accommodation.
Taking the test will add her name to the long list of dowsers who have failed to prove their (imaginary) powers. Do the skeptics really need any more of those?
I’d rather tell her in advance and have her test her alleged powers of dowsing – as recommended by Randi:
”I ask all those who wish to claim the prize based upon their dowsing skills to first try a double-blind test of their abilities. We at the JREF can advise you how to design such a test protocol. You will find, I assure you, that the description above of the ideomotor effect will be proven valid. And I know full well that you, as a dowser, will refuse this advice and believe that, for you, such a procedure is not necessary. I base this conclusion on my many years of handling dowsing claimants.” http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/ - instead of hoping that she won’t and thus proceeds to go all the way to Florida to take the test.

Is that the purpose of skepticism?

By the way, I don’t think that anybody has called Connie Sonne a coward, so why do you praise her “courage”? Is it really the first word to occur to you as a description of her attitude? And since you also describe her as ”one our most agreeable applicants”, I find it obvious that she should be offered the chance of coming to her senses before she spends a lot of money on this futile endeavour: the chance of testing her ‘powers’ herself, at home, free of charge.

 

[chillzero]

dann,
There is nothing to be gained by subjecting a claimant to rudeness or abuse. If they decide not to take the test, it should be because - as you say - they have realised they cannot pass. It should not be because they were subjected to hostility, intimidation or rudeness.

As for courage, as an 'almost' claimant myself I can tell you that it takes a hell of a lot of nerve to walk in to the lion's den here. You know that the overwhelming majority of the membership believe you to be either deluded or fraudulent.

All that is required is a little respect for someone who has stepped up to put their money where their mouth is, so to speak. We regularly complain that believers will not subject themselves to appropriate testing. When they are treated harshly, would you blame them?

The success of the MDC is to be able to show that none of these things work under proper testing. Therefore it is a mark of success just to get people into the testing room. And if that testing takes place ahead of the MDC - in her own place and time - then that's just as good if we have a narrative of that testing. Beth did it before. I didn't because I was too intimidated at the time to document it here until I tried it for myself. Beth did more good for the MDC and skepticism by showing her self testing results and also her reasoning afterward, than I did by keeping it private until I realised it was all bunk.

The best environment for this is an open one with some respect shown from both sides for the other.

ETA: Claimants should feel comfortable enough to come here and share their journey as they apply and self test.

 

[MRC_Hans]

Well, I'll just chip in and wish Connie good luck.

Knæk og bræk!

Hans

 

[GzuzKryzt]

...
As for courage, as an 'almost' claimant myself I can tell you that it takes a hell of a lot of nerve to walk in to the lion's den here. You know that the overwhelming majority of the membership believe you to be either deluded or fraudulent.
...

That argument comes up a lot, I even used it myself in the past.

In all brevity, let me give you a comparable situation: I play the drums. Sometimes I have the chance to play a difficult song in front of other far more accomplished drummers. As I walk in the room where the others sit and wait, two things are important:

1. Do I know I can do what I want to do?
2. When I'm finished: Have I done what I claimed I could do?

Perhaps courage plays a secondary role. The primary role is the ability. Obviously.



I have always wondered if would-be applicants secretly knew they were unable to perform their claimed feats and thusly got offended by people calling them out beforehand.

Long story short: Good luck with your test, Connie Sonne.

 

[nathan]

Folks, let's give Connie a break here. She's had the courage to come forth and take the challenge, has treated the JREF very respectfully and straightforwardly, and so far is one our most agreeable applicants.

Of course we don't believe she can do what she says until she shows us.. that goes without saying, but let's give her the chance to show us.

seconded. I hope Connie maintains a positive attitude towards her test.

 

[chillzero]

That argument comes up a lot, I even used it myself in the past.

In all brevity, let me give you a comparable situation: I play the drums. Sometimes I have the chance to play a difficult song in front of other far more accomplished drummers. As I walk in the room where the others sit and wait, two things are important:

1. Do I know I can do what I want to do?
2. When I'm finished: Have I done what I claimed I could do?

Perhaps courage plays a secondary role. The primary role is the ability. Obviously.

I agree.
However, to extend your example, if you walk in and they are sitting waiting quietly and respectfully, that can be intimidating, but my point is that it is much more intimidating, and you may be more likely to turn and walk out without performing, should they be mocking and laughing before you even begin.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

I agree.
However, to extend your example, if you walk in and they are sitting waiting quietly and respectfully, that can be intimidating, but my point is that it is much more intimidating, and you may be more likely to turn and walk out without performing, should they be mocking and laughing before you even begin.

Wouldn't it be intimidating only if I was unsure - or dead-certain that I'd fail - about my ability to perform?

Wouldn't their mocking and laughing - dare I say: skepticism? - only reflect their attitude and in no way my ability to perform?

I do understand that my point might seem a tad high-horsy to some folks.

Everything comes down to this though: Can you do what you claim to be able to do?

 

[chillzero]

Wouldn't it be intimidating only if I was unsure - or dead-certain that I'd fail - about my ability to perform?

Wouldn't their mocking and laughing - dare I say: skepticism? - only reflect their attitude and in no way my ability to perform?

I do understand that my point might seem a tad high-horsy to some folks.

Everything comes down to this though: Can you do what you claim to be able to do?

I really feel that it is hugely intimidating, no matter how well you can perform, to be mocked before you begin - not to mention highly inappropriate.

In any case - to prevent this derailing - I feel it is encumbent on us to be welcoming to claimants, and encourage them in their endeavours, rather than hounding them out.

I hope that Connie Sonne will share her journey with us as she moves toward her claim.

 

[nathan]

I really feel that it is hugely intimidating, no matter how well you can perform, to be mocked before you begin - not to mention highly inappropriate.

Exactly, whether it's intimidating or not is irrelevant -- it's just rude.

 

[GzuzKryzt]

...
In any case - to prevent this derailing - I feel it is encumbent on us to be welcoming to claimants, and encourage them in their endeavours, rather than hounding them out.
...

Agreed. But I do not think they should be treated with kid gloves. They should be treated like adults who enter a skeptic forum with a paranormal claim.
In post #9 of this thread I expressed the wish that Connie Sonne joined this thread.

After seeing her contradict herself within two posts - yes: I think those small things count because if you have a strategy, a game plan, a foundation of evidence going in a challenge, you do not contradict yourself within two posts - and after her dismissing of CFLs questions I felt my need for discussion saturated and pointless, since one cannot argue with a believer.

But I will be convinced by evidence of Connie Sonne's ability in two controlled tests.

 

[connie sonne]

Hi again, and thank`s to all, who wished me good luck! You must also know, that NOTHING can keep me away from what I`m doing, eventhough someone are trying to convince me, that I`m wrong!

Dann...how the f... do you know about me and what I can do? Maybe you are playing "god" now, as you told me, for judging people, whom to fail or not?? Hmm...some people can`t see longer than their own nosetip. I feel a little sorry for them..sorry! All you people out there must know...I AM glad to get tips from people who MEAN it...but I am sorry to say, that you Dann don`t mean it. The TRUTH sometimes hurts.....but it`s nessecary to know.
And for GzuzKryzt. I`m not contradicting myself...I know a lot....and you don`t know what I know So I appologize if you think I`m contradicting...but I`m not...I explain it afterwards the challenge.

Best regards Connie

 

[RoboTimbo]

Good luck, Connie! Glad to see someone able to follow through!

 

[dann]

dann,
There is nothing to be gained by subjecting a claimant to rudeness or abuse. If they decide not to take the test, it should be because - as you say - they have realised they cannot pass. It should not be because they were subjected to hostility, intimidation or rudeness.

You are right, of course. Do you read my comments as if I recommend rudeness, abuse, hostility or intimidation?

To some of the other comments:
MRC_Hans: "Well, I'll just chip in and wish Connie good luck."
GzuzKryz: "Long story short: Good luck with your test, Connie Sonne."
chillzero: "In any case - to prevent this derailing - I feel it is encumbent on us to be welcoming to claimants, and encourage them in their endeavours, rather than hounding them out."
RoboTimbo: "Good luck, Connie! Glad to see someone able to follow through!"

There are other alternatives to "hounding them out" than encouraging "them in their endeavours". As long as a claimant is friendly - and I notice that Connie Sonne has stopped being friendly to me, but still .... - I think that we should treat them as friends, which is what Randi does in the quotation I bring here for the third time:
”I ask all those who wish to claim the prize based upon their dowsing skills to first try a double-blind test of their abilities. We at the JREF can advise you how to design such a test protocol. You will find, I assure you, that the description above of the ideomotor effect will be proven valid. And I know full well that you, as a dowser, will refuse this advice and believe that, for you, such a procedure is not necessary. I base this conclusion on my many years of handling dowsing claimants.” http://www.randi.org/library/dowsing/

If friends of yours told you that they had the intentions that Connie has, I don't think that you would tell them to go ahead and wish them luck. If they appeared to be deluded, I think that you would tell them so. If you didn't, I would consider you very bad friends!

In spite of her rudeness and hostility - "Maybe you are playing "god" now, as you told me, for judging people, whom to fail or not?? Hmm...some people can`t see longer than their own nosetip." - I still hope for her that she'll see reason, test herself properly and discover her delusion instead of following through with her application.
Telling her to go ahead and wishing her luck is cynical!

 

[dann]

PS Do you guys actually believe in the good luck that you wish Connie Sonne? Or are you just putting a good face on it?