Why did the 9-11 Truth Movement fail?

[jaydeehess]

What's wrong with torture? It's not like it hurts people

Its only torture if its done to American patriots,,,,,,jeez

note to all: I am a baaad man for contributing to this derail...

 

[stateofgrace]

The 911 Commission Report relied heavily on torture-derived "evidence", in order to discover the "truth".

Did it?

Which part was that? Can you be specific?

 

[A W Smith]

I doubt you were ever hanging out at these rallies.

lemme do a search for some 911 rallies to go to.

ok here we go
http://videos.streetfire.net/video/Porsche-911-Rally-Crash_58473.htm
opps, that rally crashed, thats not good.

lemme try next result
http://www.metacafe.com/watch/128498/911_crash/
oops sorry, thats also a wreck, bear with me


oh this MUST be one!!, "cry out america 911 rally" draws a huge crowd!
http://www.clarksvilleonline.com/20...ly-draws-large-crowd-to-downtown-clarksville/
but wait a minute. they are cryin out about some sorta christian baptist memorials, not a conspiracy, hmmm 100 of them showed up though.


lets try again
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0gg2YyoM9TE

damn car freaks! another porche rally site! dont they know that the freedom of the world is at stake here? But why are all these seemingly insignificant and trivial links coming to the top of search results if the truth movement is so large? Maybe Google is in on the conspiracy huh? Are they joos or did rupert murdock buy google this past weekend?


lets keep going. shall we?
http://porche.magnify.net/video/porche-911-rally

Oh damn, another car, what shall we do with all these 911 Porsche's, park em by the back porch?


theres more at the store!
411 on 911 - Rally and March for 9/11 Truth and Impeachment

finally! after 5 links a relavent web site, but. uh oh! We just missed the damn rally by (looks at watch) A year and eight months!!

lets go to another rally
http://xpress.sfsu.edu/archives/news/008797.html

oh boy, that one turned ugly when three of your boys showed up at a memorial rally. dont click on that its not pretty. not even in an ugly betty kinda way.

oh look jesse ventura
http://blogs.phoenixnewtimes.com/bastard/2008/09/jesse_the_bonehead_ventura_ral.php

Jesse ventura rallys nutbars???? what are them? some kinda candy bar?

might as well finish off the first page of search results
http://www.imcdb.org/vehicles.php?m...on&PHPSESSID=bb9d472e1b5780d3ad62cbc035730c1a

911 Porsche's rally's in movies?

one more
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=2c0_1190811787

A ride! maybe they are racing to a rally?

Web forums aren't the only place these things are discussed. There's the work-place, the family dinner table, the bowling alley, etc.

and bars?
http://www.meetup.com/The-Tables-Will-Turn-REVOLUTION/calendar/9179697/

wow 6 showed up to turn tables at a bar at the shore! But four were guests and not 911 "turning the tables" meetup members, Is that something you do before a square dance? turning the tables? and THEN you swing your partner? at least they had an even amount for each end of the three tables.

look heres one of their seven meetup members

abdul hadi
" I love conspiracy theories! "

as you can see, he just LOVES conspiracy theories,

Which media? Did the MSM ever really cover it much, anyway?

Oh yeah the media covered it. Doncha remember? here's mister turkey neck on TV

"number one you hate your country and number two your a loon." Oh Bill is so HARSH on mister turkey neck. Bills also angy at Ward Churchill, Hey, Aint that the guy who pretended to be an indian but then everyone found out he wasn't an indian at all? And that he faked it for sympathy? well WOO WOO WOO to you too Ward. You can cut your hair now,

OK, then move along; nothing to worry about. n

(Maybe everybody is too busy trying not to go broke).

Worry? we aren't worrying we are LAUGHING at fools!
So please, As the kids at 4chan would say,
"Poast Moar!!!'

 

[Thunder]

Actually, outside of truther sites, JREF is one of the few places where one encounters truther theories.

.

you got it

 

[T.A.M.]

Jjane:

You are GROSSLY GROSSLY over exaggerating the amount that the commission relied on torture to arrive at its findings, its "truth". can't say I am surprised. As others have asked, please provide references to information that was gained SOLELY from torturing of witnesses/operatives/etc...

TAM

 

[Baylor]

[*]Who did the Truth movement torture during their investigations?

A lot of people. Waterboarding is a vacation compared to this:

[CAUTION: GRAPHIC MATERIAL. CLICK AT OWN RISK]

www.youtube.com/watch?v=UKvhU-pQl6w&eurl

 

[Thunder]

Um...you guys have been torturing me for years.

 

[johnny karate]

The 911 Commission Report relied heavily on torture-derived "evidence", in order to discover the "truth".

What a completely idiotic thing to say. I'm embarrassed for you.

 

[johnny karate]

The key in this post was the first sentence in the OP


"Its clear to everybody HERE"


Exactly, but hardly is it clear most anywhere else.

Does that include the FDNY? Or do you still believe they were "in on it".

 

[1337m4n]

If the Truth Movement produced REAL EVIDENCE instead of making crap up maybe it wouldn't have failed so hard.

To prove my point I have compiled this short list. Note that this list may not be comprehensive and is most likely just the tip of the iceberg.



LIST OF THINGS THE TRUTH MOVEMENT COMPLETELY MADE UP

1: Ben Chertoff is Mike Chertoff's cousin

After a Popular Mechanics article devastated the most popular TM claims of the time, Truthers were desperate to link them to the Bad Guys in any way they could. Lying failure fake journalist Chris Bollyn invented that one of the Popular Mechanics editors was the cousin of Mike Chertoff. JREF discovered that the closest possible relationship the two men have to one another is fourth cousins.

2: "Pull" is a term used to refer to explosive demolitions

The "pull it" excuse was used by Truthers to justify suspicion of rich Jew Larry Silverstein. Protec, an actual demolitions company, confirmed in an official statement on the matter that they have never heard of the term "pull" being used to refer to explosive demolitions. The TM literally invented a new meaning for the phrase in order to justify suspicion of Silverstein.

3: 4000 Jews didn't show up for work at the WTC on 9/11

No sources were ever found for this. And no sources ever will be, because it was completely made up.

4: The steel was destroyed before anyone could examine it

Huh? It WAS examined? Well how about that.

5: Conservation of Momentum means...something else

What physicists think Conservation of Momentum means is that the total momentum of a closed system (and, by extension, of the universe as a collective whole) remains constant. What Truthers think Conservation of Momentum means is...well, anything they want it to mean. They use it to cast everything from the airplane impacts to the collapses to the characteristics of the debris as "anomalies". Nobody knows how they come up with this. As a demonstration, here is a quote from our buddy GodIsEnergy:

im not sure what is exactly wrong with [Richard Gage's] cardboard box experiment ? does it not show conservation of momentum in a simple way that most people can understand ?

Feel free to add. But my point is: when people learn that so much of your "evidence" is stuff you made up one day, they eventually stop listening. It is not the way to win an audience. If the Truth Movement desires success, what they need is evidence that exists outside of their paranoid minds.

 

[1337m4n]

Does that include the FDNY? Or do you still believe they were "in on it".

Of course, no Truther will ever admit that they blame the FDNY, despite the obvious fact that most of their WTC-7 theories demand the FDNY to be complicit.

That's another reason they failed; people don't like when you accuse heroes of being complicit in mass murder. The Truthers could pretend all they want that they weren't actually blaming the FDNY, but their audience would always see through them.

You can lie to yourself and get away with it, but when you lie to others, there will be people who don't believe you.

 

[zaphod2016]

According to Google Trends:

Alex Jones, 911 truth

It would appear to me (based on Google search volume):

* The 9-11 truth movement peaked in 2006, and despite brief resurgences around every anniversary, it has been on an overall downtrend for over two years.

* Alex Jones appears to correlate with 9-11 to some degree (note the corresponding "bumps" on every anniversary), but unlike 9-11 truth, Jones appears to be enjoying a sustained increase in search volume.

An interesting question for this thread: why has Alex Jones not failed?

It seems to me, most arguments given in this thread about the end of 9-11 truth could also be made for Mr. Jones. And yet, his popularity appears to be growing. How can we explain this discrepancy?

Had 9-11 taken place on President Al Gore's watch, I doubt 9-11 truth would have been as popular as it was.

I would agree with this 100%. For example, I had no interest in 9-11 truth whatsoever, until debates over torture became commonplace on cable news. In my mind, a government capable of publicly-acknowledged torture is capable of (just about) anything.

Note: I am not defending LIHOP; only to explaining why I considered LIHOP plausible as I first approached the subject.

 

[Father Dagon]

If I'm not mistaken, they did spend a lot of time to discuss the soundtrack of Loose Change 2nd edition...

 

[TjW]

According to
It seems to me, most arguments given in this thread about the end of 9-11 truth could also be made for Mr. Jones. And yet, his popularity appears to be growing. How can we explain this discrepancy?

Because he doesn't stick just to 9-11. He's diversified -- a one stop shop for paranoiacs to get their daily dose of fear and indignation.

 

[GStan]

Jjane:

You are GROSSLY GROSSLY over exaggerating the amount that the commission relied on torture to arrive at its findings, its "truth". can't say I am surprised. As others have asked, please provide references to information that was gained SOLELY from torturing of witnesses/operatives/etc...

TAM

 

[Brainster]

According to Google Trends:

Alex Jones, 911 truth

[qimg]http://img411.imageshack.us/img411/1237/vizge0.png[/qimg]

It seems to me, most arguments given in this thread about the end of 9-11 truth could also be made for Mr. Jones. And yet, his popularity appears to be growing. How can we explain this discrepancy?

Jones is and always has been a one-stop shop for all your paranoia needs. He covers far more than 9-11 conspiracy theories. He's big on the Obama Birth Certificate nuttiness, ahead of the curve on the North American Union, etc. You name it, he's got it. Plus he has a real genius for self-promotion, and talk-show hosts further up the food chain like Mancow in the Morning love having him on because he's entertaining and controversial, never dull.

 

[eromitlab]

1: Ben Chertoff is Mike Chertoff's cousin

After a Popular Mechanics article devastated the most popular TM claims of the time, Truthers were desperate to link them to the Bad Guys in any way they could. Lying failure fake journalist Chris Bollyn invented that one of the Popular Mechanics editors was the cousin of Mike Chertoff. JREF discovered that the closest possible relationship the two men have to one another is fourth cousins.

And I still run into a truthist that runs with that discovery as conclusive proof that Ben and Michael are intimately related and the Popular Mechanics piece was an "all in the family" part of the cover-up... because that's what this particular one needed to say to validate their own beliefs in the face of any and all information to the contrary. Truthists will make any argument and hope someone out there is stupid enough to fall for it.

 

[Thunder]

An interesting question for this thread: why has Alex Jones not failed?

It seems to me, most arguments given in this thread about the end of 9-11 truth could also be made for Mr. Jones. And yet, his popularity appears to be growing. How can we explain this discrepancy?
.

Thats easy. The 9-11 Truth Movement failed because it takes a hell of a lot to keep a sustained ideological movement from falling apart.

On the contrary, Alex Jones knows how to adapt and evolve his ideas, goals, and strategies with the times. He has slowly moved away from 9-11 being his main focus, and has instead turned his attention to the economic crisis, problems in Russia, FEMA camps, etc.

9-11 Truth did not and could not adapt. It is a one note Nelly.

Alex Jones is a chameleon..a shape-shifter....able to adapt in order to survive.

 

[Dr Adequate]

They had no evidence to support their case.

Mods time to close this one.

You could say the same of Hitler's ravings about Jews; or about Creationism, which is exactly the same as the TM apart from their choice of subject. Heck, astrology has a zillion times more suckers than the Truth Movement. Homeopathy is a billion-dollar industry, unlike, for example, the sale of Loose Change CDs.

So there is an interesting question here: why didn't they fool more people? It's not just that they're wrong, it's something else.

 

[Mojo]

Please offer us a third alternative, this should be amusing. The Ickeans say that he's a lizard (well done for spotting that this doesn't accord with reality, we may make something of you yet); whereas we "surreal and otherworldly" debunkers maintain that he's more your bog-standard Homo sapiens, though the surrealism inherent in this claim is not immediately apparent. And you?

Perhaps Steve Bell is nearer the mark.