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Why did the 9-11 Truth Movement fail?

Since it is now clear to most everyone here, that the semi-organized "Truth Movement" has failed miserably, I think we can now discuss why they failed.

I believe, they made several critical errors, and that JREF and debunkers had nothing to do with their ultimate collapse.

<SNIP>

A true skeptic would have been just as skeptical of the 9-11 truth ideas..as they were of the government's story.

....feel free to add.

I would think that my favorite of any, which I don't see here would be that they don't practice what they preach. Or rather to put it in better terms, they did the exact same thing they claim the government is guilty of. They accuse the National Institute of Standards and Technology as being illegitimate not only on the basis of being a government body, but as well on the basis of fudging design specifications and deliberately manipulating evidence in modeling the collapse of the towers. Meanwhile many truthers present incompetent claims of flying 6 ton ejecta from hush-a-booms, such claims that first time in history events are grounds for impossibility. Loose Change deliberately distorts visual documentation of the Pentagon damage through the selective use of photographs.... I could go on all day. I don't think the truth movement is dead, but I could say that their claims are incompetent on just about every level. They'll persist for as long as the Kennedy conspiracies have already lasted and longer, but they have nothing new to offer, and it will remain that way. There are a few exceptions to this rule, but for the most part the mainstream level truth movement, and their radical whacks pulling stundies left and right are nothing short of being hypocrites.
 
If any of you are familiar with Churchill's quote, " A lie can travel around the world whilst Truth is still putting on her shoes" ...

Not to hijack, but that's a Mark Twain quote, not Churchill.

"A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes."

We now return you to your regular programming....
 
I am quite willing to entertain that notion if you are willing and able to back up the claim.

From my perspective I see fewer and fewer persons showing up at rallies in support of "questioning the OS" of 9/11/01

I doubt you were ever hanging out at these rallies.

I see fewer persons joining web forums that are "questioning the OS" of 9/11/01. "

Web forums aren't the only place these things are discussed. There's the work-place, the family dinner table, the bowling alley, etc.


I see less and less coverage of the "questioning the OS" of 9/11/01 in the media

Which media? Did the MSM ever really cover it much, anyway?


So I do not understand how you come up with that claim. Please illuminate me because in my view "questioning the OS" of 9/11/01 has stagnated at best.

OK, then move along; nothing to worry about. n

(Maybe everybody is too busy trying not to go broke).
 
I doubt you were ever hanging out at these rallies.



Web forums aren't the only place these things are discussed. There's the work-place, the family dinner table, the bowling alley, etc.




Which media? Did the MSM ever really cover it much, anyway?




OK, then move along; nothing to worry about. n

(Maybe everybody is too busy trying not to go broke).

Thats another reason why they failed. They don't understand that asking questions and snide remarks are proof of nothing. Thanks for illustrating that perfectly.
 
Why did the TM fail?

To determine why they failed...I think you first have to establish what a truther "success" would be. I know there have been threads on this but for the sake of argument I'll assume that "success" is a new investigation in which the majority of truther claims are found to be correct, and a majority of the population is convinced of such and calls for the punishment of the REAL perps.

I disagree with the OP in that I don't think the fringe groups that associated with truthers were involved much in their downfall. The truthers worst enemies are logic, facts, and science....yet none of these can be avoided if a meaningful investigation is to take place. Truthers made so many ridiculous claims (See Loose Change V1) that anyone with basic logic skills and the ability to do some web-based research would be able to easily conclude that there were major problems with their arguments.

Truthers cried wolf...or "smoking gun" about one(thousand) too many times....eventually the smarter ones figured out that their claims never really amounted to much, and the only ones left believing/pushing these theories appear to be those who do so for personal gain, and those who aren't intelligent enough to realize the err of their ways.
 
Why did the TM fail?

To determine why they failed...I think you first have to establish what a truther "success" would be. I know there have been threads on this but for the sake of argument I'll assume that "success" is a new investigation in which the majority of truther claims are found to be correct, and a majority of the population is convinced of such and calls for the punishment of the REAL perps.

I disagree with the OP in that I don't think the fringe groups that associated with truthers were involved much in their downfall. The truthers worst enemies are logic, facts, and science....yet none of these can be avoided if a meaningful investigation is to take place. Truthers made so many ridiculous claims (See Loose Change V1) that anyone with basic logic skills and the ability to do some web-based research would be able to easily conclude that there were major problems with their arguments.

Truthers cried wolf...or "smoking gun" about one(thousand) too many times....eventually the smarter ones figured out that their claims never really amounted to much, and the only ones left believing/pushing these theories appear to be those who do so for personal gain, and those who aren't intelligent enough to realize the err of their ways.

Remember, I did name multiple reasons. I didn't say which ones were more relevant then the others.
 
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More people than ever are questioning the OS.
Yes, the Vista OS is being questioned for the BS that it is.
I think we can now discuss why they failed.
The self proclaimed Truth Movement let the stupid overtake the brain, which led to lying so transparently that they could not be taken seriously.
A true skeptic
How would you know? Do you run a kilt warehouse?
Investigation by torture.
  1. Who did the Truth movement torture during their investigations?
  2. Why isn't Amnesty International all over this like a cheap suit?

DR
 
jaydeehess said:
I am quite willing to entertain that notion if you are willing and able to back up the claim.

From my perspective I see fewer and fewer persons showing up at rallies in support of "questioning the OS" of 9/11/01
I doubt you were ever hanging out at these rallies.

I witnessed but one personally, five guys pestering passers-by on a street corner in a Mid-Canada city.

I did not attend the first "Woodstock" festival either but I know for a fact the Jonie Mitchel was overly optimistic with the characterization of attendance being "half a million strong".

There are the reports of other 9/11 rallies in which the organizers 'expect' hundreds only to see a few dozen show up. There are the wide calls for people to participate in rallies and when checked out by skeptics it is seen that very few show up. There are the 9/11TM supporters who show up and disrupt Amy Goodman and others who get zero support from any other audience member. (even "don't taze me bro" got some support from others in the audience)



Quote:
I see fewer persons joining web forums that are "questioning the OS" of 9/11/01. "
Web forums aren't the only place these things are discussed. There's the work-place, the family dinner table, the bowling alley, etc.

,,, and you would characterize a word of mouth distribution of 'the message' to be a garnering of greater support?
In my experience there is zero talk of any 9/11 conspiracy theories in my workplace, my family or the curling team I am on(I don't bowl). (ETA: I asked a friend who is on an after work hockey team and on a baseball team in the summer. Nope, no talk at all about 9/11CT's that he has witnessed!This is despite the fact that I do not keep it secret that I am a skeptic and quite willing to discuss conspiracy theories concerning 9/11/01, JFK, the Apollo program and a few others. I hardly think that I am so intimidating (at 5'7" tall) that people simply are afraid of speaking to me about these things.(ETA:My nephew did recently ask me about the Apollo hoax theories, "dust falls too fast" specifically. I answered him and asked him about 9/11. He does not believe any of the theories about 9/11 that he has heard of, (Pentacon, no-planes, WTCx explosives)



Quote:
I see less and less coverage of the "questioning the OS" of 9/11/01 in the media
Which media? Did the MSM ever really cover it much, anyway?

Well there have been 9/11 proponents on all the major networks including Fox News, there have been whole shows dedicated to 9/11 conspiracies on American and foreign networks, not all of which are unfriendly to the 911TM
However I use the past tense in that last sentence because there simply are no more.


Quote:
So I do not understand how you come up with that claim. Please illuminate me because in my view "questioning the OS" of 9/11/01 has stagnated at best.
OK, then move along; nothing to worry about. n

A snide remark is hardly an answer to the question. Tweeter proposed that the 911TM is gaining support. I disagree and would like some evidence to support the claim made. I gave my reasons for my view. You attacked only my reasoning (albeit rather weakly )rather than offer anything to support Tweeter's contention.

(Maybe everybody is too busy trying not to go broke).

Hmmm, that did not seem to be the case 7 years ago while the stock market was plummeting due to the effect of 9/11. Within days of Sept 11/01 I was reading on the Blackvault that the towers had explosives in them and shortly after that, that a missile had been responsible for the Pentagon damage. There were numerous proponents of a vast array of theories flying around the internet. Now. although there are still a vast number of theories, some of which are mutually exclusive, flying about, there are fewer proponents pushing them. Just a hard core with their own fav's to champion.
Being out of work would seem to be the perfect opportunity to attend rallies in one's home town. Maybe the next NYC rally will be better attended.
 
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No evidence, no facts, no plausible theory, they are liars, they misinform, they don't listen to answers, they have no support among experts in the FDRs, architecture, engineering, etc, too many bong hits, too much mental illness... it's a rich tapestry.
 
The key in this post was the first sentence in the OP


"Its clear to everybody HERE"


Exactly, but hardly is it clear most anywhere else.
 
Actually, outside of truther sites, JREF is one of the few places where one encounters truther theories.

In the real world, most people think truthers are absurd, wrong, misguided--if they've even heard of them.

Then, there are some teenagers who flirt with some truther theories just as they do with novel urban myths like alligators in the sewers.
 
What's wrong with torture? It's not like it hurts people :duck:
 
The 911 Commission Report relied heavily on torture-derived "evidence", in order to discover the "truth".

Who specifically and what evidence? Also explain how this would have affected the official story since I fail to see how this would cover up the evidence of bombs in the buildings or no-planes.

Who was tortured in NIST to come up with a report(s) that illustrate how the WTC towers and #7 succumbed?

Finally of course, how does any of this prove or refute the contention in the OP?
 
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