Does Crime Pay? "Somali Jack" Sparrow says "Yes!"

[WildCat]

The islamic courts were kicked out with support from ethiopia and the US, they could be put back the same way.

You can bet that the ransom money being paid now is flowing uphill to the Islamic Courts.

Putting them back in power won't help things. Might even make it worse.

 

[WildCat]

Putting a military team onboard ships that are likely targets would also be much simpler.

That's what I was getting at in Post #43.

 

[Toke]

Yes, shark bait were my first throught, unfortunately it is not legal.

A few hundred years ago there were similiar problems from marokko to tunis, best guess is that it was solved through stronger goverments that could control the countries and see the benefit in trade over piracy.

If the islamic courts controlled the country they would have more to loose from being unpopular abrourd and more to gain from trade.

 

[Toke]

Try add up the cost of teams for all ships passing through the suez channel, then present that to ship owners.

 

[Toke]

Include the ships passing from the persian gulf and south around africa.

 

[Toke]

Q-ships are tempting but not practical

 

[Travis]

It says if you have UN a mandate you can do whatever you like and getting an UN mandate will not in this case be a problem.

Don't count on that, especially if the US is involved. The UN is so stupidly anti-American anymore that they wouldn't approve of the US shooting down enemy bombers headed towards our shores.

 

[Toke]

Don't count on that, especially if the US is involved. The UN is so stupidly anti-American anymore that they wouldn't approve of the US shooting down enemy bombers headed towards our shores.

Have you wondered why??

Because you are free??


I don´t think a stronger anti-pirate mandate will be a problem, unless it is coubled with some licence to attack somalia.

 

[WildCat]

Have you wondered why??

Because you are free??


I don´t think a stronger anti-pirate mandate will be a problem, unless it is coubled with some licence to attack somalia.

Why would the US need a license to attack Somalia? The UN couldn't even stop Ethiopia from invading it.

Not that I think we will, just that the UN is toothless in that regard.

 

[Toke]

Personally I find a few shells in the speedboat basin of select ports a great idea.
Absalon does have a canon.

Violating the soverenety of a country that does not controll its own territory is not that big a problem, who will complain?

 

[DanishDynamite]

Is this simply a problem with Danish law? If a US or UK warship intercepted the pirates, I believe they could be prosecuted.

I suspect it is a problem for all ships in the area. As no UN mandate has been given, all captured suspects will have been caught in international waters.

 

[Kestrel]

Personally I find a few shells in the speedboat basin of select ports a great idea.
Absalon does have a canon.

Violating the soverenety of a country that does not controll its own territory is not that big a problem, who will complain?

So where exactly have the pirates been taking the ships they have seized? News reports indicated Haradhere, but Google Earth doesn't seem to know about that place.

 

[geni]

Don't count on that, especially if the US is involved. The UN is so stupidly anti-American anymore that they wouldn't approve of the US shooting down enemy bombers headed towards our shores.

Well russia is already involved and china normaly abstains so no risk of veto. The arab countries are loseing money so they will support dito europe. With the posible exception of south aftica I can't see why anyone would have a reason to oppose.

 

[geni]

Why would the US need a license to attack Somalia? The UN couldn't even stop Ethiopia from invading it.

Why would the UN or anyone other than Eritrea have wanted to? It's somalia. There isn't anything you can do to them that they won't eventualy do to themselves.

 

[geni]

So where exactly have the pirates been taking the ships they have seized? News reports indicated Haradhere, but Google Earth doesn't seem to know about that place.

Eyl and in at least one case Bosaso.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

I was on station off the coast of Somalia for two months back in 2006. Thing is, this is a ridiculous amount of waterspace to patrol and enforce. One option for dealing with it would be to assign merchant ships into convoys and provide one or two picket ships at the front and back of the formation to provide cover. These ships would come from the international Task Force 150, which has been operating in that area for some time. The neat thing about TF150 is that it truly is a multi-national force. I was on the USS Barry, an Arleigh Burke-class destroyer, and during the time we were CHOP'ed (under control) of TF 150 we worked and took orders from the British at one point and the Germans at another. Now, obviously if we received emergent tasking or 5th Fleet countermanded a TF150 order, we'd go with that. Anyway, back to the pirates...

Here's a couple options I see for dealing with this and the negative sides of each:

1. Group merchant ships traversing the east coast of Africa into formations have have picket ships from TF 150 riding shotgun. No pirate in the world would be dumb enough to try anything then. At least I hope not.

This would be very expensive in diesel fuel for the warships riding shotgun, much more so than I believe any gov't would be willing to spend for an indefinite amount of time. On top of that it would be a logistic nightmare - coordinating multiple shipping companies to have their ships wait on station at their last port of call until enough were ready for the formation. Don't see this one happening.

2. Have SEALs/VBSS boarding teams on hot standby ready to covertly insert and re-take whatever ship the pirates had.

The interior of most Group III merchants is a tactical nightmare. You'd have to expect the pirates to have a little more familiarity with the interior as well, so they would have the advantage. The SEALs and VBSS could get the job done, but it would most likely be a bloodbath on both sides, plus the pirates might decide to get into the hostage executing business. This is probably a bad option and would not be undertaken unless they threatened something drastic, like scuttling the oil tanker or if threatening to execute hostages.

3. Have shipping companies pay for armed security details on ships that are traversing the East Coast of Africa.

While not directly addressing the pirate's operations, this is probably the best option for these companies. The berthing and feeding of the details would be an issue, plus the added expense in hiring them. The cost of this would probably be less than the ransom they are paying to these mooks. Plus, insurance on shipments going through the area could offer a discount on their already astronomical fees if the ship had an embarked security detail.

As far as tracking them, as long as they continue to use small craft it doesn't give us much to go on as far as ELINT. Their "mother" craft most likely have some kind of search radar, because the latest seizure was well out into open waters and they would have needed it to locate their target in total darkness or inclement weather. This isn't a guarantee though. They could be navigating from experience and charts and simply sighting their targets visually.

I think what is needed is for us to work with whatever NGO's are friendly to us out there. (No doubt the intel services of every country they've stung are already working this angle.) Of course if that's dry, and we can tie their activity to a specific area or facility...well, then it's RGM-109 Tomahawk time, baby.

 

[rwguinn]

We have a Darwin Winner
What do you do when the Navy wants to inspect? Shoot at 'em!

Actually--if the countries which flag the ships would simply replace every 3rd crew with Marines (at random and off-shore so nobody could tell), the situation would solve itself fairly quickly--and cheaply...)

 

[richardm]

So where exactly have the pirates been taking the ships they have seized? News reports indicated Haradhere, but Google Earth doesn't seem to know about that place.

Reportedly, the Sirius Star is anchored off Hobyo. Although Eyl is more normally given as the pirate's base, Google doesn't seem to know about it. It is in that neck of the woods, anyway.

Edit: in fact it does, but the search box doesn't seem to be keen to find it.

 

[Kestrel]

This would be very expensive in diesel fuel for the warships riding shotgun, much more so than I believe any gov't would be willing to spend for an indefinite amount of time.

Nations built navies to protect commerce. If they no longer can do so, why don't we just bring them all back and cut them up for scrap?

On a more constructive note, why don't we use lots of small patrol boats instead of just a few warships? Intercept and investigate all small craft in the area. Back up the patrol boats with aircraft and larger ships. Sink any craft that runs or shoots back.

 

[Kestrel]

Reportedly, the Sirius Star is anchored off Hobyo. Although Eyl is more normally given as the pirate's base, Google doesn't seem to know about it. It is in that neck of the woods, anyway.

Edit: in fact it does, but you need to know where to look and searching wont find it.

Eyl isn't much more than a wide spot in the road. Wouldn't take much of a force on the ground to surround and capture the entire place.