Does Crime Pay? "Somali Jack" Sparrow says "Yes!"

[WildCat]

I still say we should tear a page out of the Dealing With Barbary Coast Pirates handbook and deal out some hurt.

Didn't we end up paying tribute to the Barbary pirates anyway once all was said and done?

 

[gumboot]

My understanding is that one of the mandates of the UN-approved force in the Gulf is preventing piracy, and that as a result of this task force piracy in the Gulf is pretty much non existence. Unsurprisingly, pirates have responded by starting the operate outside the UN mandated area where task force ships are unwilling to operate (feeling they don't have authority to do so).

The rather obvious and straight forward solution would be to extend the UN mandate, surely.

Having said all that, I think we shouldn't be too hasty about trying to get rid of these pirates. As pirate numbers rise we can expect global temperatures to decrease, and that's a good thing.

 

[WildCat]

Very doubtful. The Islamic Courts no longer have any great power in anywhere of Somalia, and the pirates are operating out of an area where the Islamic Courts never had any but theoretical power anyway.

Doesn't really matter. Whichever warlord controls the area will demand a piece of the action. They certainly won't stop it.

 

[Kestrel]

Removeing all the weapons from a somali town? Would take rather a long time and would probably be more merciful to kill them quicky.

You've got to find all this stuff anyway while hanging around in a country where war is a way of life.

Here is one of the pirate dens. Do you really believe that this town would be too tough for our military forces to handle?

 

[geni]

Here is one of the pirate dens. Do you really believe that this town would be too tough for our military forces to handle?

Most first world militry forces could overun the the entire country in a week if they wanted.

The problem is once you've occupied the town what next? Most of the houses will have weaponary burried in the back garden or closer to hand. People will continue to move in and out some of whom will be people want to kill members of the occupying force. In this enviroment you will lose troops for as long as they are stationed there. When do you decide that you've lost enough and leave?

 

[geni]

Burn it down, blow it up, bulldoze it nice and flat.

The laying waste to villages aproach is unpopular in areas where people might notice.

 

[WildCat]

The laying waste to villages aproach is unpopular in areas where people might notice.

We can also eliminate the people who will notice if you'd like.

 

[Kestrel]

Most first world militry forces could overun the the entire country in a week if they wanted.

The problem is once you've occupied the town what next? Most of the houses will have weaponary burried in the back garden or closer to hand. People will continue to move in and out some of whom will be people want to kill members of the occupying force. In this enviroment you will lose troops for as long as they are stationed there. When do you decide that you've lost enough and leave?

I never proposed occupying this town for an extended period, so where did you get this idea?

Remove the pirates and the weapons and equipment they used to commit piracy. Repeat as needed until people get the message that pirates end up dead or in jail.

 

[WildCat]

I never proposed occupying this town for an extended period, so where did you get this idea?

Remove the pirates and the weapons and equipment they used to commit piracy. Repeat as needed until people get the message that pirates end up dead or in jail.

Exactly. There is no piracy problem a few mini-guns can't solve.

Especially the one in the A-10 Warthog, like the Taliban hiding in this hut found out. Very similar to pirate huts I think:

 

[Toke]

looks cool, wish our brigde wing could take the recoil.

 

[AWPrime]

I am feeling a bit brutal today.

- attacking ports may carry political ramifications

Just sink any Somali ship in international waters. Also drop a bomb on that tanker.

Yes, shark bait were my first throught, unfortunately it is not legal.

Why not?

A few hundred years ago there were similiar problems from marokko to tunis, best guess is that it was solved through stronger goverments that could control the countries and see the benefit in trade over piracy.

Depends if the pirates are the government, also its Somali, what do they have to trade that offers more?

As for the Barbary pirates, they were lessened by punitive expeditions and then neutered by 19th century conquest of their homelands.

 

[luchog]

Here's a couple options I see for dealing with this and the negative sides of each:

I've noticed that no one has yet come up with the obvious solution. Warships of any normal kind are impractical. There's too much area to cover, they're too limited in visibility, and they're too slow to cope with the smaller, faster, more maneuverable pirates. Convoys increase the expense, and decrease the shipping speed.

An article I read earlier this week had a good solution. Helicopter ships. Armed helicopter gunships on a dedicated platform. Can cover more area in less time, greater visibility, and greater ability to deal with the small speedboat craft. Set up several platform ships in a chain, and you can cover an immense area compared to a similar number of traditional warships; and your response time is greatly improved.

It's not a cheap solution, or a perfect one; but it's workable and effective.

 

[Travis]

Didn't we end up paying tribute to the Barbary pirates anyway once all was said and done?

Only after the first Barbary War. After the second one the European powers decided to invade as well and make the territory their colony.

Having said all that, I think we shouldn't be too hasty about trying to get rid of these pirates. As pirate numbers rise we can expect global temperatures to decrease, and that's a good thing.

Very funny.

 

[dudalb]

A Indian Navy Frigate blew a pirate vessel out of the water. It's a start.

 

[geni]

I never proposed occupying this town for an extended period, so where did you get this idea?

The bit where you suggested removeing the weapons.

Remove the pirates and the weapons and equipment they used to commit piracy. Repeat as needed until people get the message that pirates end up dead or in jail.

Problem is when on shore we have no idea who the pirates are and the equipment is stuff you would expect to find in a standard somali fishing village.

 

[JoeyDonuts]

I've noticed that no one has yet come up with the obvious solution. Warships of any normal kind are impractical. There's too much area to cover, they're too limited in visibility, and they're too slow to cope with the smaller, faster, more maneuverable pirates. Convoys increase the expense, and decrease the shipping speed.

An article I read earlier this week had a good solution. Helicopter ships. Armed helicopter gunships on a dedicated platform. Can cover more area in less time, greater visibility, and greater ability to deal with the small speedboat craft. Set up several platform ships in a chain, and you can cover an immense area compared to a similar number of traditional warships; and your response time is greatly improved.

It's not a cheap solution, or a perfect one; but it's workable and effective.

Most modern warships above the size of a frigate have the capability to have a helicopter detail embarked. I agree that it would be the best option as far as direct interdiction of small craft, however, don't discount naval artillery. Our 5"/54cal gunner on the Barry was pretty damn good. There are also special purpose shells (KEET) designed with the expressed purpose of fragging small craft. An SSM won't be too effective on a small craft...they could probably blast a "mothership" with an SM-2 if they felt the need, but this would most likely be a naval artillery/helicopter/40mm grenade kill if I was calling the play.

 

[Doubt]

I believe the best, most efficient response to the pirates is to revive the Q ship concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

Draw them in and blow them out of the water. It won't end it. But it will put a dent in their operations.

 

[geni]

I believe the best, most efficient response to the pirates is to revive the Q ship concept.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Q-ship

Draw them in and blow them out of the water. It won't end it. But it will put a dent in their operations.

We've already covered this. There are too many ships in the area for it to be effective.

 

[Darth Rotor]

I've noticed that no one has yet come up with the obvious solution. Warships of any normal kind are impractical. There's too much area to cover, they're too limited in visibility, and they're too slow to cope with the smaller, faster, more maneuverable pirates. Convoys increase the expense, and decrease the shipping speed.

An article I read earlier this week had a good solution. Helicopter ships. Armed helicopter gunships on a dedicated platform. Can cover more area in less time, greater visibility, and greater ability to deal with the small speedboat craft. Set up several platform ships in a chain, and you can cover an immense area compared to a similar number of traditional warships; and your response time is greatly improved.

It's not a cheap solution, or a perfect one; but it's workable and effective.

Luchog, most modern combatants have on board helicopters, so your suggestion, while not bad, is redundant in the sense that ship borne helicopters are already there. US has armed it's ship borne helos since the mid 1990s, most NATO nations before that. Ships with organic helos have a surveillance range many times that of a ship with no helo, which is why we've had helos on surface combatants -- frigates, destroyers, cruisers -- since the mid 1970's.

Another thing we (the US) now have on a variety of ships is UAV's, which can help a lot with the maritime surveillance package.

Also, in that part of the world, more than one NATO nation deploys (or has deployed) multi enging maritime patrol planes, with long on station times, like the Argus, Nimrod, Orion, or even Atlantique. (Not sure if Atlantique's are still deployed there. )

Sum up: what you are looking for is already there, or easily put there.

(Ya sorta threw that pitch into my wheelhouse. )

@ toke: a 25mm chain gun ought to suffice for your ship. Mount one on each bridge wing. We had them welded to our ships' main decks after the lessons learned in Praying Mantis/Earnest Will in the late 1980's, in terms of getting a mid sized gun for a small sized boghammer or such like craft.

@ Joey Donuts: were you on Barry when CDR Balconis was the CO?

DR

 

[JoeyDonuts]

It makes me wonder how they're picking their targets. With the massive volume of shipping traversing that waterspace, does it strike anyone else a little odd that they just so happen to nab a shipment of Russian armored vehicles? And the largest volume of oil ever captured? I think they've gotten too many "hits" on high value targets for it to be just chance.

These guys are getting intel from somewhere. My best guess would be someone inside the shipping business who would have some idea of what's on the manifests of the different tankers and cargo rigs.

@ DarthRotor: Negative. I was ship's company from 2003-2008. My CO's were CDR Coulton, CDR Denman, CDR Wolstenholme, and CDR Seaman. And you named the only mounted gun they wouldn't let me shoot. Damned GM's and FC's hoggin all the action on the 25mm. They did let me fire a burst from the 40mm, so I can't complain.