Only when she was holding the rods and some of us were trying to turn them in her hands. Works ok with others. No mater how you twist what I have said I and other successfully dowse and have a large number of people who ask for our help. This seems to be new to so many, but it goes back centuries, just shows how this stuff is hidden from general knowledge. The above was only done for fun,but shows how dowsing can be interfered with.
-
Security incident: ISF was recently accessed by intruders. Please change your password, and change it anywhere else you used it. Read more
The deadly potential of dowsing
- Thread starter Achán hiNidráne
- Start date
-
- Tags
- dowsing
Only when she was holding the rods and some of us were trying to turn them in her hands. Works ok with others. No mater how you twist what I have said I and other successfully dowse and have a large number of people who ask for our help. This seems to be new to so many, but it goes back centuries, just shows how this stuff is hidden from general knowledge. The above was only done for fun,but shows how dowsing can be interfered with.
Jackalgirl
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Messages
- 1,801
So, in other words, she was holding onto the rods so tightly that they would not turn. So in other words, with her, the ideometer effect was not occuring. Yes?
As you may have guessed, anecdotal stories about successes can be had a dozen for $.10. Likewise, the fact that a lot of people believe in dowsing does not constitute evidence. What it'll take to convince the crowd here is an actual demonstration.
Have you tried the Australian Skeptics' self-test, as Byzantine Magpie suggested? I'd sure be interested in hearing about you trying it, and about the results. I mean, that would be a really cool thing for you to do and report on here, and I'm sure it wouldn't just be me who'd be really interested in hearing about it.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Astrology goes back centuries too, and lots of people still believe in it. We know why - confirmation bias and subjective validation. In the case of dowsing, we also know why people have convinced themselves it works - the ideomotor effect. We know this because, when we carefully eliminate the ideomotor effect, dowsing ceases to "work".
Very few people have never heard of astrology or dowsing. Very few people have heard of confirmation bias and the ideomotor effect. It's not the woo that isn't general knowledge, it's the explanations of the woo.
If I set the test up and reported success on past posts replies many would doubt me and want more proof. I have no reason or gain to feed you bull. As I said earlier we have played with tests not a 100% but close much more than chance. When it comes to water so far all success, and as we have refined our learning over the years can tell good water from bad primary from spring plus direction of flow The only thing that I find impossible is the quantity because a lot depends on the drillers putting the right screens at the right depth, the water has to get into the bore fast enough. Some one said earlier what has psyhic got to do with dowsing. Dowsing is psyhic.
Ove
Master Poster
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2001
- Messages
- 2,945
I work for a power compagny and my work is coordinating digging. We try to get all our powerlines into the ground because of reliability (ground cables doesn't blow down in storms 
)
One day i was out with the entrepeneur looking at a new project when an old farmer came around and looked. We were going to put a new cable down close to an old one and we were discussing where the old cable was. The "digger" could somewhat remember (he did the digging back then too) but we agreed that we'd better get someone with a cablelocator to mark it accurately. We use a very efficient system which transmits a pulse along the cable which can be picked up by a special reciever. Accuracy is within 10-15cm .
Then the old farmer said "I can show you" and whipped out... yes you guessed it, two bent pieces of wire. He then walked a bit around and they allways came together just when he crossed the line where WE also believed the cable was.
HE looked for applause and we smiled politely (choking more or less) and then he said "Off course i remember quite well when they did the work back then i watched it a lot".....
And for the record, i have ONCE seen a JCB put a shovel through a live 10Kv cable. THAT is one firework i will never forget.
)One day i was out with the entrepeneur looking at a new project when an old farmer came around and looked. We were going to put a new cable down close to an old one and we were discussing where the old cable was. The "digger" could somewhat remember (he did the digging back then too) but we agreed that we'd better get someone with a cablelocator to mark it accurately. We use a very efficient system which transmits a pulse along the cable which can be picked up by a special reciever. Accuracy is within 10-15cm .
Then the old farmer said "I can show you" and whipped out... yes you guessed it, two bent pieces of wire. He then walked a bit around and they allways came together just when he crossed the line where WE also believed the cable was.
HE looked for applause and we smiled politely (choking more or less) and then he said "Off course i remember quite well when they did the work back then i watched it a lot".....
And for the record, i have ONCE seen a JCB put a shovel through a live 10Kv cable. THAT is one firework i will never forget.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Probably, but let's cross that bridge when we come to it. Why don't you do the test anyway, for your own satisfaction?
Were they blind tests, like the one currently proposed? Because if not, the ideomotor effect is the most likely explanation. Note that an experienced dowser who has learnt to read the landscape can expect to get much better results than chance in non-blind tests, as his unconscious mind processes all the available information and moves his muscles accordingly.
You just don't get it "ideomotor effect" whats that, no such thing. No good me telling you anything. Most just can't take it on. Best of luck to you all Bye.
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
So a concert pianist consciously decides where to put each of his fingers for each note whilst playing a Rachmaninov concerto?
Right back at you.
Jackalgirl
Graduate Poster
- Joined
- Aug 25, 2004
- Messages
- 1,801
Oh my gosh! Those mean skeptics asked me questions! I didn't expect that!
Paulhoff
You can't expect perfection.
- Joined
- May 1, 2005
- Messages
- 12,512
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ideomotor_effect
It is dowsing that doesn't exist, and ideomotor effect does exist and it fools the ones that what and need to be fooled.
Paul
Byzantine Magpie
Thinker
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 144
Old Bob
Out of interest, do you think dowsing would work without the intervention of humans?
What I mean is this: if you took your dowsing rods and sat them in simple holders (say, upright spice jars), put the device on a trolley and pulled the trolley from a distance with a rope, would the dowsing rods react to water (or whatever)? Or do the dowsing rods need to be in someone's hands?
What I'm trying to get to is the sense you (or other dowsers) have on the limits of the ability.
Secondly, can you suggest how it is that dowsers seem to use a variety of tools with apparently equal success? I mean, one dowser uses two bent wires, another uses a pendulum and a third uses a forked stick. How can all these different devices get responses in the same way?
Cheers
Out of interest, do you think dowsing would work without the intervention of humans?
What I mean is this: if you took your dowsing rods and sat them in simple holders (say, upright spice jars), put the device on a trolley and pulled the trolley from a distance with a rope, would the dowsing rods react to water (or whatever)? Or do the dowsing rods need to be in someone's hands?
What I'm trying to get to is the sense you (or other dowsers) have on the limits of the ability.
Secondly, can you suggest how it is that dowsers seem to use a variety of tools with apparently equal success? I mean, one dowser uses two bent wires, another uses a pendulum and a third uses a forked stick. How can all these different devices get responses in the same way?
Cheers
Elizabeth I
Philosopher
"Psyhic"? Is that a crazy country bumpkin?
Anybody can be a pendulum dowser - I have done it myself. Just tie some sort of small weight (a fishing line weight, a small metal nut, you name it) to the end of a string about 18 inches long. Hold it out in front of you at about shoulder level. Think of the object moving back and forth at the end of the string - and it will move!!! OMG!!!1!!eleventy-one! Then think of it moving around in a circle - and it will do that too!!! Wow, I'm psychic! I have telekinesis! I can move objects with my mind!
Nope, it's the ideomotor effect. It does feel spooky the first time you try it, though.
Dr Adequate
Banned
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2004
- Messages
- 17,766
That would work. When the pendulum is blown a hundred feet in the air, you've found a landmine.
Last edited:
Olowkow
Philosopher
- Joined
- Oct 29, 2007
- Messages
- 8,230
We used to do that in college as a "lie detector". To and fro for yes, and left/right for no. The subject, holding the "pendulum", secretly picks a card from a deck of 52 cards, I ask yes/no questions, (odd? red? etc) and get the right card in less than a few minutes. The subject is amazed.
Byzantine Magpie
Thinker
- Joined
- Jul 21, 2002
- Messages
- 144
Just bumping this thread to remind Old Bob about my questions...
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Judging by post #67, Old Bob has run away. So have astroman818 and Homeoproofer.
Do you think it was something we said?
Ove
Master Poster
- Joined
- Aug 6, 2001
- Messages
- 2,945
Nahhhhh. Why would someone run away just because we challenged them to "Put their money where their mouth were"
Pixel42
Schrödinger's cat
Well both astroman and homeoproofer have reappeared in the last 24 hours, though sadly no better informed than when they left, so who knows - maybe Old Bob will return to grant us the benefit of further examples of his wisdom.Nahhhhh. Why would someone run away just because we challenged them to "Put their money where their mouth were"
Actually, the difference between a good pianist and a really good pianist is that the really good one will conciously know where to put each of his fingers. Playing by memory is all very well, but the slightest mistake or distraction will screw you up and usually leave you unable to pick straight up where you stopped. The mark of a professional musician is that they will know exactly where their hands are, what they are doing and what they are going to do next at all times.
And no-one but the dowser gets hurt. A plan with no drawbacks!