Gardasil vaccine

The Herpes stats are nearly as bad. One in five by age 50 of both sexes have it. And of the ones that have it, only 10% of them KNOW they have it! Because it is often "silent." It can infect you and you never have more than "micro-lesions" which you would not perceive as sores but as some sort of very minor irritation.
 
My opinion is that this is where "Eminent Domain" would be well applied. Strip Merck of this patent and make the vaccine for free distribution in a government-contracted laboratory. Because $300 per is profiteering.


What an utterly immoral thing to say.
 
The Herpes stats are nearly as bad. One in five by age 50 of both sexes have it. And of the ones that have it, only 10% of them KNOW they have it! Because it is often "silent." It can infect you and you never have more than "micro-lesions" which you would not perceive as sores but as some sort of very minor irritation.

There's also new research that indicates that most cases of "genital herpes" are actually type I (mouth cold sores) transmitted via oral sex. And over 80% of the population is infected, and transmission can occur in the absence of symptoms.
 
Don't do this if you are about to eat!

Google: hpv

:eek:
I wish I hadn't done that.

Here's some interesting HPV research...
http://www3.interscience.wiley.com/cgi-bin/abstract/71005686/ABSTRACT
We previously showed that vertical transmission frequently results in persistent infection, and now present data on the prevalence of HPV-16 DNA (the most prevalent high-risk HPV type) in healthy children. Buccal samples from 267 healthy children aged 3-11 years were tested for HPV DNA by generic PCR (MY09/MY11), and a HPV-16 specific nested PCR. Reverse transcriptase (RT)-PCR was used to determine the prevalence of transcriptionally active HPV-16 infection in a subset of children. HPV-16 DNA was detected by nested PCR in 138 of 267 (51.7%) samples, whereas HPV DNA was detected in only 45 (16.8%) specimens by generic PCR, that has a lower analytical sensitivity. There were no significant differences in prevalence according to age or sex.

same thing in adults:
http://www.sciencedirect.com/scienc...serid=10&md5=f1e2c5f2a4f1dd30513bf0db59e8e520

The aim of this study was to ascertain the prevalence of HPV 16/18 DNA in oral squamous cell carcinoma (OSCC) vs. normal oral mucosa, and to correlate the virologic data with other factors obtained from the patients' records. One hundred and thirteen paraffin embedded tissue samples (73 OSCC and 40 normal oral mucosa) were studied using HPV type specific primer-mediated polymerase chain reaction (PCR). Seventy-four per cent (54/73) of OSCC and 55% (22/44) of normal oral mucosa were positive for HPV 16/18 DNA.

So HALF of us have HPV types 16 or 18 (the cancer strains) in our mouths right now.

Another one:

http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1034/j.1399-302X.1999.140401.x
Human papillomavirus (HPV) infection in the normal oral cavity was studied by the sensitive polymerase chain reaction (PCR) using primers for the L1 region of human papillomavirus DNA and high fidelity amplification system. Cells were scraped from the oral mucosae of 7 (mean age; 42 years) and 30 (mean age; 32 years) volunteers with and without skin warts, respectively. Human papillomavirus DNA was detected in 30/37 (81.1%) specimens and their copy numbers per cell were 10−1 to 10−4 (mean, 10−3). The human papillomavirus types determined by PCR-based sequencing analysis were HPV-18 (26/30; 86.7%), -61 (18/30; 60%), -59 (7/30; 23.3%), -16 (2/30; 6.7%), -6 (1/30; 3.3%) and an unknown type (HPV-X71) (1/30; 3.3%). Multiple human papillomavirus types were present in 17/30 (56.7%specimens.

And here's the paper from that FDA meeting where the guy was saying HPVs are part of the human "microflora".

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&uid=11761260&cmd=showdetailview&indexed=google
To investigate the prevalence and the natural history of human papillomavirus infections, we monitored HPV DNA shedding as a consequence of immunosuppression, with the expectation that latent viral infections would reactivate and become detectable. The study populations consisted of women who were in end-stage renal failure, those who ultimately received kidney transplantations, and those who had HIV/AIDS with various degrees of immune depression at entry.
We conclude that HPV infections are extraordinarily common and are normally held in a sub-clinical state by functional immune systems, but can be reactivated by immunosuppressive conditions. The question of how so many distinct types persist in the human population and can be repeatedly isolated from specimens collected around the world raises complex issues concerning the nature of viral transmission, reproduction, shedding, and mutational drift. These molecular epidemiological observations signal the likelihood that HPV is part of the commensal microflora of human epithelia. Their prevalence elicits a caution that latent HPV DNA may be present in primary human epithelial tissues.
 
I would imagine abnormal cell growth that isnt quite cancer yet (displaysia?? i cant remember the name) is a lot more common than cervical cancer. the treatment for that is very painful and has to be done over and over again. Ive known quite a few women who have had that and it has the potential to become cancer without the treatments.
Neoplasia. CIN stands for Cervical Intra-epithelial Neoplasia.
If you are talking about CIN and not cancer then you're wrong about the nature of the treatment. It is not usually painful (local anaesthetic is used) and it does not have to be done over and over again, once is usually enough.
If the women you know found it all very painful and had to have extra treatments (rather than follow-up smears) they were unlucky, because they are in the minority.
My better half is a nurse colposcopist - she runs her own clinics and diagnoses and treats CIN.
She definitely supports vaccination for HPV - even if it will eventually make her job almost redundant.
Remember girls - you can be as pure as the driven snow on your wedding night but if your man has had even a modest previous sex life then he's probably got HPV. It is endemic in the population.
 
Originally Posted by MinorityView
...There are other ways of avoiding death by cervical cancer.

The info on this thread so far seems to indicate that huge numbers of women have HPV and clear it without going on to get cancer. Some have it and develop pre-cancerous problems which are caught by having regular Paps. So having Paps done is one way to avoid dying of cervical cancer.

The important question is why some women are able to clear HPV and some are not. Is it completely random or are there risk factors which we can avoid? I believe that smoking is one of the risk factors and immune problems are another. Gardasil won't do anything to protect women from particular risk factors. It only works against the particular strains of HPV included in the vaccine. If other strains "step up" vaccinated women will be just as vulnerable as the unvaccinated, unless they are taking steps to avoid the more general risk factors.

Avoiding sex seems a bit extreme, especially since we seem to be able to pick up HPV by other routes. Why miss the fun if you are going to end up with the problem anyhow?
 
Neoplasia. CIN stands for Cervical Intra-epithelial Neoplasia.
If you are talking about CIN and not cancer then you're wrong about the nature of the treatment. It is not usually painful (local anaesthetic is used) and it does not have to be done over and over again, once is usually enough.

i know anecdotes dont make for evidence, but im habing a hard time believing you when i know the number of women that i do w/that problem. this problem causes biopsies to be taken, which is undeniably unpleasant...

I will google and get back to you.
 
Having paps?

Gardasil has, thus far, shown a low to nothing effectiveness against cervical cancer. At best, it's 17-20% effective for mildish neoplasisa. And it goes to hell after that point.

The reason effectiveness against cervical cancer has not been established for Gardasil is because a study has not been performed that would be able to demonstrate a difference. This is quite different from actually performing a study looking at cervical cancer and finding no difference.

The progression from HPV infection to CIN grades 1-3 to carcinoma in situ to cervical cancer is well-established. Also well-established is that treatment at an earlier stage prevents progression to any of the later stages. This makes it reasonable to start by looking at whether or not any differences can be demonstrated in the earlier part of the process, especially when your final outcome is uncommon or rare.

If you wish to demonstrate whether a difference exists, a rough rule of thumb is that you need 50 events in your control group in order to have an 80% chance of detecting a significant difference (for p < 0.05 as the test of significance). This is demonstrated in the FUTURE I study, where there were an impressive-sounding six times as many cases of carcinoma in situ in the non-vaccinated group, but the real numbers were 1 and 6 leading to a p-value right on the line for statistical significance.

A study to demonstrate reduction in cervical cancer would probably require about 50,000 participants, and the evidence of benefit is too overwhelming for it to pass ethical consideration.

That reductions in the CIN grade I group account for the efficacy of the vaccine is to be expected. It is prevention of the primary disease, rather than modification of pre-existing disease, that leads to the benefit. The higher grade lesions that occurred in the vaccinated group would be expected to represent pre-existing disease in the early months or first year of the study. And this is confirmed by the graphs which demonstrate that the cumulative incidence of higher grade lesions plateaued in the vaccinated group after 18 to 24 months, whereas they kept rising in the non-vaccinated group (when looking at lesions due to vaccine serotypes).

Just a technical note about drawing causal inferences (in respect to you comments about the vaccine "causing" disease worsening or increased serotype prevalence). Causal inferences can reasonably be drawn from experimental data for those variables on which the groups were randomized or for overwhelming non-experimental data. It is not reasonable to draw causal inferences from tiny, non-significant patterns found by the a posteriori sifting through a large pile of data not subject to randomization on the relevant characteristic, simply because they are likely to be spurious. However, while under most circumstances, the patterns you referred to would be ignored (like the finding that Libras and Geminis did not benefit from aspirin in the ISIS-2 study), because in this case they would be important if present, it is arguably reasonable to include the ability to study this question in further research on this vaccine (at least for the shifting serotypes question).

Linda
 
Last edited:
<snip>

And this is confirmed by the graphs which demonstrate that the cumulative incidence of higher grade lesions plateaued in the placebo group after 18 to 24 months, whereas they kept rising in the non-vaccinated group (when looking at lesions due to vaccine serotypes).

<snip>

Linda

:confused:

Shouldn't that be vaccinated group?
 
i know anecdotes dont make for evidence, but im habing a hard time believing you when i know the number of women that i do w/that problem. this problem causes biopsies to be taken, which is undeniably unpleasant...

I will google and get back to you.

Again, as you say, anecdotes don't make for evidence, but I had both a cervical biopsy and the treatment, and the worst I experienced was a few hours of cramps.
 
i know anecdotes dont make for evidence, but im habing a hard time believing you when i know the number of women that i do w/that problem. this problem causes biopsies to be taken, which is undeniably unpleasant...

I will google and get back to you.
I'm not questioning the veracity of those anecdotes. However my wife does a lot of colposcopic examinations, about 50 a week. Of those 10-15 are treatments. If the woman starts to feel anything - ie discomfort, not yet pain - then more local anaesthetic is in order.
Elizabeth I's experience is about as bad as is gets - many women are surprised at the lack of discomfort during and after the treatment. That's not to say that there are not occasional problems, of course, but they are very much the exception.
 
Most GCs simply don't have any empathy for their patient's pain, and are horrible at giving locals. At least that is what my doctor friends have told me.

It *can* be utterly painless, but not in the hands of somebody who doesn't care as long as *he* feels nothing.
 
Most GCs simply don't have any empathy for their patient's pain, and are horrible at giving locals. At least that is what my doctor friends have told me.

It *can* be utterly painless, but not in the hands of somebody who doesn't care as long as *he* feels nothing.
I doubt if there are many doctors who don't care - lack of empathy and awareness, unfortunately, yes. The better ones are very careful, of course - the (older male) consultant who trained her was excellent with the patients. On the other hand, she knows female doctors who aren't as empathetic as they might be.
Mrs D is a nurse and brings years of nursing skills to her current speciality - she says it helps and has the letters of thanks to prove it.

Anyway her message is -
  • Go for your scheduled smears.
  • Have the examination/treatment if it's indicated.
  • Get your daughter vaccinated as it becomes available.
 
My mother caught it from her husband. (Whom I refuse to call my father.) And he got it on Okinawa when he was in the air force.

So, any more bright ideas?
:mad:

I'm really sorry. I didn't mean that seriously. I meant it as a pseudo-right wing commentator. They've taken the implicit attitude that cervical cancer is punishment for females having sex.
 
Most vaccinations come with risks, so if there were a few deaths that are linked to this one, I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

Yep. Just cause a few teenage girls are going to die, who cares?

Given the millions protected by Gardisil, even if the injection did cause the deaths, you would still be ahead statistically by having it and not getting cervical cancer.

Of course! What is a few hundred dead kids compared to the benefits the ones who live will enjoy. Plus, it is almost impossible to prove the vaccine was the cause, so who cares?

It is not at all unusual for a few people to die of any vaccine.

Some people are allergic to the medium a vaccine is grown in, for one thing.

Yep, or, as in this case, the hydrated aluminum potassium sulfate, which, based on the evidence, is almost as bad as the virus in the vaccine. When it comes to side effects and risks.

It depends on the population you're looking at. There are some weird things going on with the vaccine so far.

....

http://www.fda.gov/cber/review/hpvmer060806r.pdf

There is something far stranger in that document than what you pointed out. Something so unbelievable I had to read it twice.

But considering the deaths and other serious events being reported in regards to Gardasil, it is starting to make sense.

1105347bd834a6b413.gif
 
Last edited:

Back
Top Bottom