Bigfoot - The Patterson-Gimlin Film

[Correa Neto]

No, Sweaty, what enters is wishfull thinking, tortuous reasoning and biased information cherry picking from PGF defenders.

I'll dumb things dow for you, again. Morris claim is independent of Hieronimus'. Here they are:
- Morris claims to have sold a gorilla suit to Patterson and that Patterson asked him how he could modify it for a joke he would play on someone.
- BH claims to be the Patty.

Morris claims that BH was Patty?
Morris said something about skinning dead horses?

AFAIK, No.
Hieronimus may be telling a lie, but this will not cause any problems to Morris' statement of selling Paterson a gorilla suit and telling him how to modify it.
Simple straight-forward logic, Sweaty.

BH's claims of being Patty fade in importance when compared with Morris' claim. Morris claim, if real, means Patterson bought and modified a gorilla suit to fool someone. And you, as well all the people who claim Patty is a real bigfoot may be among the fooled ones.

Morris claim cast another doubt over PGF authenticity. And works based on data suspected of being a fraud are?

At last, but not least, you should consider to change the reasoning below

ONLY believed by skeptics who prefer to give credibility to any explanation other than the simplest one (that Bigfoot exists), to explain away any and all Bigfoot evidence.

Patty being a real bigfeet is not the simplest explanation. This would actually require the reality of a combination of the bewildering tortuous excuses proposed to explain why not a single piece of reliable evidence to back the existence of large apes that live across most of North America has been found so far. The simplest explanation, Sweaty, is that PGF is a hoax and bigfeet are a myth.

 

[SweatyYeti]

William Parcher wrote:

It is people like you that keep the myth alive.

No....it's people like Joyce (from Upstate NY), who have personal testimonies about seeing Bigfoot creatures which have a degree of believeability (weight) to them that keep the interest in Bigfoot alive.

As more decades pass without a Bigfoot, the skeptical position will look stronger.

You're right...as the years go on, without finding proof positive of it's existence...the 'degree of probability' of their existence decreases.

The NET weight of the evidence is a product of the evidence for and the evidence against it's existence.

The sad truth of the matter is, is that none of the skeptics on this forum understand how evidence is actually weighed.

 

[historian]

Doesn't look like any of the listening posts I've been stationed at. What is that?

But, I think you will stump some people with throwing an ACRONYM for Defence instead of Defense out there.

Plus in the NSA, we knew years ago, that keeping interdimensional prisoners underground, is a dangerous undertaking, they try phasing in and out undergound and you end up with dimensional portals in places where you have no control over what's coming through. At least in the above ground facilities we could access the portals and process them for decommissioning.

Everyone at the NSA, is on a "need to know basis". It appears as if absolutely noone felt that you had a "need to know". Thus, your post.

 

[drapier]

You're right...as the years go on, without finding proof positive of it's existence...the 'degree of probability' of their existence decreases.

The NET weight of the evidence is a product of the evidence for and the evidence against it's existence.

The sad truth of the matter is, is that none of the skeptics on this forum understand how evidence is actually weighed.

So for everyday since 1967 the degree of probability that bigfoot exists has been getting closer to zero?

How do you weigh evidence?

 

[Correa Neto]

Hey Drew, you have a PM from NSA.

Of course, it will self-destruct (your computer will be collateral damage) as soon as you read it.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

.....................

The sad truth of the matter is, is that none of the skeptics on this forum understand how evidence is actually weighed.

The sad truth of the matter is you have no idea what evidence is ...

As far as weighing it goes, you seem to think a pound of horse manure is as good as a pound of gold..

 

[historian]

No, Sweaty, what enters is wishfull thinking, tortuous reasoning and biased information cherry picking from PGF defenders.

I'll dumb things dow for you, again. Morris claim is independent of Hieronimus'. Here they are:
- Morris claims to have sold a gorilla suit to Patterson and that Patterson asked him how he could modify it for a joke he would play on someone.
- BH claims to be the Patty.

Morris claims that BH was Patty?
Morris said something about skinning dead horses?

AFAIK, No.
Hieronimus may be telling a lie, but this will not cause any problems to Morris' statement of selling Paterson a gorilla suit and telling him how to modify it.
Simple straight-forward logic, Sweaty.

BH's claims of being Patty fade in importance when compared with Morris' claim. Morris claim, if real, means Patterson bought and modified a gorilla suit to fool someone. And you, as well all the people who claim Patty is a real bigfoot may be among the fooled ones.

Morris claim cast another doubt over PGF authenticity. And works based on data suspected of being a fraud are?

At last, but not least, you should consider to change the reasoning below


Patty being a real bigfeet is not the simplest explanation. This would actually require the reality of a combination of the bewildering tortuous excuses proposed to explain why not a single piece of reliable evidence to back the existence of large apes that live across most of North America has been found so far. The simplest explanation, Sweaty, is that PGF is a hoax and bigfeet are a myth.

Possible Explainations for the PG creature, in order of simplicity
1. Creature has never set foot in a UFO, not accepted by scientists because society is living in denial of their existence, and has escaped capture by remaining hidden in the higher dimensions and alternate lifeforms.
liklihood= an almost absolute certainty
2. Creature was real and dropped off by a UFO, and remains at large to this day.
liklihood=possible
3. Creature was real and an escaped circus Gorilla specially trained to walk for extended periods on two feet, and has eluded all attempts to recapture.
liklihood = possible but not likely
4. Some semi-illiterate 5'-10" cowboy, who flunked out of high school, was conned into wearing a hairy suit that was so cutting edge that it's authenticity has still not been duplicated 40 years later, and said suit was for a 7'-3" tall person and contained heretofore as yet undocumented hairy breasts and sagital crest, an accurate hair weave, butt crack requiring the wearer to be butt naked and feet that were much larger than the wearer.
liklihood=no way jose, not a chance, in your dreams, someone has been smoking something illegal.

 

[Worm]

You appear to have your likelihood ratings reversed.

 

[historian]

As far as weighing it goes, you seem to think a pound of horse manure is as good as a pound of gold..

I must be rich beyond my wildest dreams, then! But is sure is messy shoveling all that good stuff into a safe for safe keeping. Maybe I can get a Bigfoot to help me.

 

[William Parcher]

It is people like you that keep the myth alive.

No....it's people like Joyce (from Upstate NY), who have personal testimonies about seeing Bigfoot creatures which have a degree of believeability (weight) to them that keep the interest in Bigfoot alive.

I disagree. If nobody believed the Joyces then it wouldn't ever become the subculture of the Bigfoot Myth. It is people believing other people that keeps the myth going. Nearly all of the books about Bigfoot are written by people who have not claimed to see one. They believe the people who say they have (the Joyces). The books are collections of stories told by Joyces and the authors are certainly promoting the authenticity of their encounters. If nobody believed the Joyces of the world... then there would be no Bigfoot books or internet forums. Sure they could write their own books or start forums, but they would be met with nothing but skepticism unless they converted people to believing them. You would not have the necessary catalyst to bring about the myth as it appears today. Vocal believers (who are not eyewitnesses themselves) are a required ingredient. You are one of them. Joyce's claimed encounter goes nowhere without people like you. If her story is not copied and promoted it will be lost to time.

 

[William Parcher]

BTW, Bob Heironimus said something interesting in the Biscardi interview. He said that Patterson was making fake Bigfoot prints and casting them in Yakima. He explains that Patterson used the plaster casts to make further prints. He mentions another guy from Yakima faking tracks and implies that he used plaster casts provided by Patterson. His name is Prentiss Beck. Maybe I heard the name wrong, but I've never read anything about this guy. Bob also says that Roger was using plaster casts to make the fake Patty prints at Bluff Creek. Maybe Roger didn't typically use carved wooden feet to make fake BF prints and instead used his own plaster casts. Biscardi mentioned to Bob that plaster would easily break. Bob had no response. But he doesn't need to provide an explanation if he is only telling what he remembers. He said that after the filming he was set to leave Bluff Creek with the roll of film (that contained him as Patty) and the suit. Roger told him they (him and Gimlin) would then make the faked trackway with their plaster casts. He seems very certain that they used these casts to make the prints. He didn't witness them making the trackway (because he left) so he can't say anything about how they prevented cast breakage. If Roger was in the habit of using plaster casts to make the fake impressions, then he probably figured out how to prevent them from busting back when he was doing it in Washington.

 

[Skeptical Greg]

.......Nearly all of the books about Bigfoot are written by people who have not claimed to see one....

This is a very astute observation, I haven't noticed anyone has made it before..

 

[Correa Neto]

...utter nonsense snipped...
4. Some semi-illiterate 5'-10" cowboy, who flunked out of high school,

Patterson's artistic skills were already demonstrated by his drawings and the bigfoot bust he made. Yes, they may be copies, but skills are needed to copy sculptures and drawings.

......was conned into wearing a hairy suit

BH may, or may not be the bloke in the suit. It may well have been Patterson, Gimlim or another person. Whoever is this individual, he was part of the hoax.

...that was so cutting edge that it's authenticity has still not been duplicated 40 years later,

Only for people who are deluded or ignorant when it comes to vintage FX buy this stuff.
It was already demonstrated that gorilla suits from the 60's and before were as good as -and sometimes better than- the Patterson suit. Including when in movment.

...and said suit was for a 7'-3" tall person

...
Patty's size and weigth are not known. All that we have are some estimates and some of them are pretty ridiculous. Many are well within what can be reached by prosthetics such as a crest.

...and contained heretofore as yet undocumented hairy breasts and sagital crest, an accurate hair weave,

Hairy fake-looking breasts, incongruent with primate anatomy and that can be manufactured in a costume.
Sagital crest can be easilly faked in gorilla costumes.
Hair weave can be obtained quite easilly also in a suit.

...butt crack requiring the wearer to be butt naked

...
Only in your delusional dreams. Just sew a seam between the left and right diaper butt paddings.

...and feet that were much larger than the wearer.

...
Can't I wear shoes larger than my feet?

...liklihood=no way jose, not a chance, in your dreams, someone has been smoking something illegal.

Yeah! Interdimensional (Neal, do you know what a dimension is?) invisible telepathic bigfeet, Carter says bigfeet are real, bigfoot captured at a lab, Hawkin studies bigfoot, EMP and X Rays can erase DVD data, DVDs are magnetic media and have circuits, millions of bigfeet all around, four-legged little people, woodgnomes, orbs fly at 200 m/h, NSA agents all around...

Someone has been smoking something illegal, indeed! Or lives in a fantasy world.

 

[Drewbot]

Morris costumes maintains they DID indeed provide the costume to Roger. www.morriscostumes.com

 

[kitakaze]

If you don't recognize this*:

you're probably not a NSA operative.

Let me show you who wears the pants around here without doubt or delay, baby.

Is that some crazy enemy combatant detention facility? No, silly. That's just Canadian Forces Station Masset on Queen Charlotte Islands. Ray was there for five years and loved it but his wife being a city girl from Boston hated it.

Cut and paste:

Naval Radio Station (NRS) Massett (old spelling) became active on 23 February 1943 as a HFDF intercept station and a relay station for ship-to-shore communications. At war's end, Masset was placed into caretaker status until reactivated in 1949 under call sign CFS.
From 1949 to somewhere around 1957, the station was known as NRS Masset. Between 1957 and July 11, 1966 it was called HMC NRS. After that, the name became CFS (Canadian Forces Station) Masset and was part of the Canadian Forces Supplementary Radio System.

The station's motto is "SINE DUBIO SINE MORA" meaning "Without doubt without delay".

If you don't recognize my avatar you're probably not a NSA operative.

Cipher machine.

If you don't recognize the initials GCHQ, CSE, or DSD, you're probably not a NSA operative.

GCHQ- Government Communications Headquarters. British NSA. God Save the Queen!

Cut and paste:

The Government Communications Headquarters (GCHQ) is a British intelligence agency responsible for providing signals intelligence (SIGINT) and information assurance to the UK government and armed forces as required, under the guidance of the Joint Intelligence Committee. CESG (originally Communications-Electronics Security Group) is the branch of GCHQ which works to secure the communications and information systems of the government and critical parts of UK national infrastructure.

GCHQ was originally established after the First World War as the Government Code and Cypher School (GCCS or GC&CS), by which name it was known until 1946.

GCHQ is the responsibility of the UK Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, but it is not a part of the Foreign Office, and its Director ranks as a Permanent Secretary.

CSE- Communications Security Establishment. Canadian NSA. What're talkin' aboot. I'm no spy, eh!

Cut and paste:

The Communications Security Establishment (CSE) is an intelligence agency of the Canadian government, charged with the duty of keeping track of foreign signals intelligence. Part of the Department of National Defence, CSE is forbidden, by law, to intercept domestic communications. When intercepting communications between a domestic and foreign source, the domestic communications are destroyed or otherwise ignored (however, after the September 11, 2001 attacks on the United States, the CSE's powers expanded to allow the interception of foreign communications that begin or end in Canada, as long as 1. the other party is outside the border and 2. Ministerial authorization is issued specifically for this case and purpose[1]). CSE is bound by all Canadian laws, including the Criminal Code, the Charter of Rights and Freedoms, and the Privacy Act.

DSD- Defense Signals Directorate. Australian NSA. Crikey, mate! Which one of you chazzwazzers is gonna help me clean up all these yowie nuggets.

Cut and paste:

Defence Signals Directorate (DSD) is an Australian government intelligence agency responsible for signals intelligence (SIGINT) and information security (INFOSEC).

Based in Canberra, it operates monitoring facilities at Kojarena, Western Australia and at Shoal Bay, Northern Territory, which are believed to be part of the ECHELON system. It may also play a role in Pine Gap.

If you can't tell the difference between a KW-26 and a boombox, you're probably not a NSA operative.

Well first off, I don't think you'll here Slick Rick coming out of a KW-26.

Good old Romulus:

Cut and paste:

The TSEC/KW-26, code named ROMULUS, was an encryption system used by the U.S. Government and, later, by NATO countries. It was developed in the 1950s by the National Security Agency (NSA) to secure fixed teletype circuits that operated 24 hours a day. It used vacuum tubes and magnetic core logic, replacing older systems, like SIGABA and the British 5-UCO, that used rotors and electromechanical relays.

Know whut I mean Vern?

10-4, good buddy!

 

[Drewbot]

Your Google Skills are amazing Kitakaze. I'm sure everyone else looked all that up as well, they just didn't have to POST it. A true NSA operative, would never have used the photo from the first GOOGLE IMAGES page, they would have used one from 5 or 6 pages down. BUSTED NSA SPOOK!

 

[kitakaze]

Your Google Skills are amazing Kitakaze. I'm sure everyone else looked all that up as well, they just didn't have to POST it. A true NSA operative, would never have used the photo from the first GOOGLE IMAGES page, they would have used one from 5 or 6 pages down. BUSTED NSA SPOOK!

A-thank you. My bewilder protocols include blatant flaunting.

 

[SweatyYeti]

William Parcher wrote:

It is people believing other people that keeps the myth going.

I agree with that....it's actually both the eyewitness accounts, and the people who believe in them, or put some degree of credibility in, that keeps the "myth"/interest in Bigfoot going.....nice and strong.

I've noticed the Bigfoot threads on this board are nice and FAT.

Amazing, and hard to understand....considering how there's actually NO evidence for this creature's existence! (according to the skeptics on this forum.)

 

[kitakaze]

William Parcher wrote:


I agree with that....it's actually both the eyewitness accounts, and the people who believe in them, or put some degree of credibility in, that keeps the "myth"/interest in Bigfoot going.....nice and strong.

I've noticed the Bigfoot threads on this board are nice and FAT.

Amazing, and hard to understand....considering how there's actually NO evidence for this creature's existence! (according to the skeptics on this forum.)

Ladies and gentlemen, please do not exert too much strain on Sweaty's impaired critical thinking. He's apparently of the mind that the bigfoot phenomenom requires reliable evidence to be of interest.

Also, do not ask questions which do not allow for Sweaty to answer in a fashion that supports his belief system. Such as:

Joyce's BFRO report:

http://www.bfro.net/GDB/show_report.asp?id=5245

Sweaty, if something was indeed seen, please detail for us how bigfoot was the most likely answer. And no, I'm not talking about bears.

Or why the 'no' answer I gave Sweaty is so unbelievable.

Oh yeah, definitely don't try to get him to discuss his ideas about Martian civilizations.

 

[LTC8K6]

Nearly all of the books about Bigfoot are written by people who have not claimed to see one

What I Didn't See In The Woods by I. R. Bleever - Sasquatch Expert

We were sitting by our campire, sniffing pheromone chips, when a feral hog came flying by overhead and screaming in terror...

It landed with a sickening thump on the ski rack of my Yukon.

We knew we were close...