[Moderated]175 did NOT hit the South tower.

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malcolm kirkman said:
In order for gravity to work, you need a source of GRAVITY.
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I'm..I'm speechless. this...this isn't even...dangit man WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU TYPED THIS?!? sorry...sorry. I mean, all caps, bad form, I know but, seeing this typed out. just...wow.

I mean, is it in your mind set that gravity is somehow not effecting the IV bag? Like that line about there needing to be a hole in the bag TO LET THE GRAVITY IN? (That quote, for those of you just tuning in, was
malcolm kirkman said:
No BIG hole in the top of the bag = no chance for GRAVITY to act = the photo is staged.
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)

But none the less, I'm gonna help you. My guess is you're confused about Air Pressure, not gravity. It's moot in the case of IV bags, because they collapse as the liquid drains out. Also, it's not how high above the ground the IV bag is - it only has to be higher than the patient.

Anyway, that was not pole number 2 in the previously referenced photographs, and you can't seal gravity out of a bag by closing it.
 
malcolm kirkman said:
24 carat nonsense. In order for gravity to work, you need a source of GRAVITY.
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See that big round thing the building your room is in is sitting on? No, the bigger one. No, no, the really, really, really big one. Next, take out the inverse squared law of universal gravitation. Lastly, take the values for the mass and radius of that really, really, really big round thing and, tada, 9.822 m/s2
 
malcolm kirkman said:
24 carat nonsense. In order for gravity to work, you need a source of GRAVITY.
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Ok malcolm, this may be difficult to follow, but I want you to look down. Underneath your feet, there is a giant, and I mean truly massive, thing called Planet Earth.

It's so big that it generates a gravitational field capable of doing all sorts of amazing things such as holding you in the chair you are most likely sitting while you post here.

That gravitational field is even strong enough to power an IV drip.
 
SpitfireIX said:
Hi, sts60, and welcome to JREF! As phantomwolf has predicted, probably at least half of the BAUT conspiracy theories forum will be here soon.

To expand on the above point, in the photos "bagman," as Malcolm calls him, is wearing a tie and suspenders. He may have been a civilian Pentagon employee, or possibly he was a motorist who stopped to help. In any case, he's not dressed as we would expect any Pentagon medical personnel or first responders to be dressed. So he's probably just someone who was pressed into service to hold the IV bag, and wouldn't know that he didn't need to hold it up, even if that were true. Also, another reason to hold the bag up, other than allowing for the solution to be gravity fed, would merely be to keep it out of the way, and keep the line from getting tangled, caught, or stepped on. Malcolm's argument fails on three different counts. And I'll have more on "bagman" in a later post.

Oh, BTW, sts60, quoting with bold (or JayUtah-style quoting, as I sometimes call it) is frowned upon here, as I quickly discovered when I tried to use it. :o
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You seem to have forgotten about pole No. 2 on this site, I haven't.
http://www.911studies.com/911photostudies1.htm
You've had your rant about Jack White. Now, how about addressing the relevant issue which is the pohto inconsistencies around pole No 2.
 
Belz... said:
So, where did the plane go, Malcolm ?

Did it vanish in thin air ? If not, how come nobody saw it on the OTHER SIDE OF THE PENTAGON ?

I assume you know that the Pentagon has stuff on the other side, too ?



So that means 9/11 was an inside job ?



Yes. Yes it's possible that the crew or passengers would resist, but that wasn't policy, back then. Yes, it's possible that security would stop them at the airport because of the knives, but that wasn't policy back then. Yes, it's possible that visibility might be less than perfect, but it wasn't and you can make your decision a day or two beforehand, and cancel when needed. Yes, it's possible that technical difficulties may hamper navigation, but these guys were pilots.

So are those risks so great ?



We do not base our conclusions on mere suspicion brought about by minor contradictions, Malcolm.
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These possibilities that you mention. You would have to take these into consideration before the event.
Why take a chance when you have a proven trouble free option ready and waiting?
 
malcolm kirkman said:
That's because I backed you into a corner on the previous topic.
Borrow a ladder off somebody and stick a cover over the widest pipe you can see that protrudes above the gutter line of the roof. It will be directly above the bathroom. Leave it there for some time. Then come back and tell us all about gravity feed not needing gravity.
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ignoring my posts regarding photos is not backing me into a corner

i will not argue with any man who says you need a "source of gravity"

if you were in a vacum sealed room would you float off and hit the roof because the source of gravity cannot get to you?

have you ever siphoned petrol from a car malcolm

why do you have to suck the petrol through the hose to start with?

if you go underneath your car and make a hole in the bottom of it would it spill out?

gravity is always there malcolm it does not come and go depending on holes

i am speechless at your ignorance of gravity

in fact you are 100% a plant and you are truly a genius one at that

hats off gravity boy
 
malcolm kirkman said:
Join the rest of the drip feeds.
Tell me (and hello and welcome), how long on average does it take for one of those bags to empty?ps.
Reagan is across the road from the Pentagon. You can throw a brick across a road,
Dulles is at Chantilly. Further away true. But knidly consider brevity in posts such as these. Furthermore, Dulles has a runway well away from the terminal bldg that runs east to west. I didn't know about the east west runway until I just looked at a map. That would be a rarely used runway as it ran across the normal north south approaches.
That's why Mrs Booth was greased, because she would surely query the approach line and the timing = putting two and two together. The truth just keeps rolling in.
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At maximum flow, these guys say a full 500mL bag will empty in from 2 to 2.5 minutes. A 1000mL bag will empty in 3.5 to 11.5 minutes. The actual maximum flow rate depends on the size of the tubing and the size of the needle inserted into the vein.

How fast the stuff flows into the patient is a decision for the doctor to make. The flow rate is regulated with a little thing the squeezes the tube. The more strongly the tube is squeezed, the lower the flow rate. It is adjustable for various rates.

I suggest you try ponderingturtle's experiment. But do it outside. There's no need to ruin your carpet.
 
This IV discussion is ridiculous. Just tonight, my father had chest pains and I called an ambulence. In our town, the EMTs are firefighters too and they were a little shorthanded because of a bad accident on the local freeway. I held up the freaken' bag myself until they got the pole thing set up. The bag is always elevated, whether by hand or on a hook. Hasn't pretty much everybody witnessed this at one time or another in a hospital or vets office?


malcolm kirkman said:
These possibilities that you mention. You would have to take these into consideration before the event.
Why take a chance when you have a proven trouble free option ready and waiting?
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How would this alleged Offutt option be "proven and trouble free" when it had never been done before and if done this way, would open up an enormous amount of holes in the supposed "cover story" and add significant numbers to the legion of accomplices that would need to be kept quiet?

You're only presuming Offutt to be some easy answer because you have chosen who you want the prime suspects to be and are now scrambling to make a theory fit with that. It doesn't work that way. You have to follow the evidence and the evidence will lead to your suspects and theories.

The mass of evidence tells us that Al Qaeda has been plotting against US interests as an entity since 1989, with them merging with Egyptian Islamic Jihad and the hybrid organization declaring war on the US and Israel in 1996. They have engineered dozens of attacks over the last nearly two decades. The September 11 attacks bear all the hallmarks of an Al Qaeda attack, including: meticulous planning (provided perhaps most prominantly by Ramzi Yousef and Khalid Sheik Mohammad), coordinated hits on at least two targets within minutes of each other, the choosing of highly symbolic targets to attack, and suicide attackers who spent time training in Afghanistan and left behind mission statements and/or "martyr" videos intending the whole world to see them. Oh yeah, and they also confessed once they got busted.
 
Dear Malcolm Kirkman,

Can you not clearly see that we actually get paid by the Bush administration to refute your claim?

Kind regards,

Bruce Jongejans
 
MK:

1. Insofar as gravity is concerned and plastic IV bags, I suggest that you reconsider the argument considering the corner you're painting (or have painted) yourself into. You may want to think about whether GRAVITY means what you seem to think it means.

A practical demonstration of what the others are referring to would be to fill a ziploc or any plastic bag with water and seal it. Punch or cut a hole in one corner. If the bag was really filled, some water will come out. Not necessarily all of it. Now lift the bag by the opposite corner. Does water come out the hole? What happens to the bag?

How is this possible since, according to your apparent belief, gravity has to be able to enter the bag in order for the water to come out? Or does it flow in through the hole that the water is flowing out?


2. I don't believe I've found your explanation regarding why the white car image has to be showing the impact point of the main fuselage. If you've already posted the response, which I believe was to be a rebuttal to my posting (or an explanation about how I am wrong), please make a note of what post it was so I can find it.
 
MortFurd said:
At maximum flow, these guys say a full 500mL bag will empty in from 2 to 2.5 minutes. A 1000mL bag will empty in 3.5 to 11.5 minutes. The actual maximum flow rate depends on the size of the tubing and the size of the needle inserted into the vein.

How fast the stuff flows into the patient is a decision for the doctor to make. The flow rate is regulated with a little thing the squeezes the tube. The more strongly the tube is squeezed, the lower the flow rate. It is adjustable for various rates.

I suggest you try ponderingturtle's experiment. But do it outside. There's no need to ruin your carpet.
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Thanks for the term 'Pressure Infusion Devices'.
I suggest that you conduct the experiment that I outlined in post 3063.
I suggest that you stay inside.
 
MIKILLINI said:
Malcolm..are you serious? A source of gravity? Earth has plenty of it, in fact, it's everywhere I go. I can't seem to get away from it. IV's use the effect of gravity, .I.E. The fluids are heavier than the air, so gravity has effect on them.
They flow downward since they are elevated above the patient..But there are valves in the IV line to control the flow. This is simply from observation. :boggled:
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Take your time and look a bit closer.
 
malcolm kirkman said:
Post No. 2958 is as close as anyone came to being pinned down on an entrance spot.
Simply pick your entrance spot, then I'll showyou hoe a 757 doing 4 or 500 mph can't even break a window.
Even Nist can't get the plane to fit without taking one engine and half the wings away.
Page 35 fig 6.1
http://fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf
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this is the one that you avoided my question on about the molten metal and then referenced your cropped photo

you were never pinned down you wriggled out and ignored

post the full photograph and we can all look at it again
 
SpitfireIX said:
[qimg]http://www.mendocinocoastambulance.com/images-pages/iv-drip-amb-s.jpg[/qimg]
Mendocino Coast Region, California, USA

[qimg]http://www.communities.qld.gov.au/community/regional/blueprint/e-telegraph/2007/edition2/images/paramedics.jpg[/qimg]
Queensland, Australia

[qimg]http://www.emsparamedicpride.org/images/Photos/JoshMcDermottSavingLives.jpg[/qimg]
Los Angeles, California, USA

[qimg]http://www.co.pg.md.us/Images/NewsRoom/CMS/Fire/image4703.jpg[/qimg]
Prince George's County, Maryland, USA.

[qimg]http://www.sti.nasa.gov/tto/spinoff1996/images/51.jpg[/qimg]
San Diego, California, USA

[qimg]http://www.dod.state.ga.us/armyguard/armyimages/148krashpixtop.jpg[/qimg]
Whitfield County, Georgia, USA

[qimg]http://www.army.mod.uk/img/103bnreme/118_recovery_coy/medic.jpg[/qimg]
British Army
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How many of those photos are staged?
 
Trifikas said:
I'm..I'm speechless. this...this isn't even...dangit man WHAT WERE YOU THINKING WHEN YOU TYPED THIS?!? sorry...sorry. I mean, all caps, bad form, I know but, seeing this typed out. just...wow.

I mean, is it in your mind set that gravity is somehow not effecting the IV bag? Like that line about there needing to be a hole in the bag TO LET THE GRAVITY IN? (That quote, for those of you just tuning in, was )

But none the less, I'm gonna help you. My guess is you're confused about Air Pressure, not gravity. It's moot in the case of IV bags, because they collapse as the liquid drains out. Also, it's not how high above the ground the IV bag is - it only has to be higher than the patient.

Anyway, that was not pole number 2 in the previously referenced photographs, and you can't seal gravity out of a bag by closing it.
Click to expand...

Why does a 'pressure infusion' bag need to be higher than the patient?
 
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