Psychic Detectives are real

[Little 10 Toes]

Thank you for only selecting a portion of the entry. Here's the section that you did not reference. Same entry, but listed under the "Varieties of zero-point energy":
The idea of zero-point energy occurs in a number of situations, and it is important to distinguish these, and note that there are many closely related concepts. In ordinary quantum mechanics, the zero-point energy is the energy associated with the ground state of the system. The most famous such example is the energy E=hw/2 associated with the ground state of the quantum harmonic oscillator. More precisely, the zero-point energy is the expectation value of the Hamiltonian of the system.
In quantum field theory, the fabric of space is visualized as consisting of fields, with the field at every point in space and time being a quantized simple harmonic oscillator, with neighboring oscillators interacting. In this case, one has a contribution of E=hw/2 from every point in space, resulting in a technically infinite zero-point energy. The zero-point energy is again the expectation value of the Hamiltonian; here, however, the phrase vacuum expectation value is more commonly used, and the energy is called the vacuum energy. In quantum perturbation theory, it is sometimes said that the contribution of one-loop and multi-loop Feynman diagrams to elementary particle propagators are the contribution of vacuum fluctuations or the zero-point energy to the particle masses."

To help prove that you know what you're talking about (I personally don't believe that) please explain that small paragraph to the Average Joe. And why haven't you shown your math?

 

[polomontana]

Little 10 Toes,

It's basically talking about how zero point energy shows up in different theories even though it's called something else. In quantum field theory it's called vacuum energy and in quantum perturbation theory they call it vacuum fluctuations. It also talks about the expectation value of the Hamilton.

In quantum mechanics, the Hamiltonian H is the observable corresponding to the total energy of the system.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hamiltonian_(quantum_mechanics)

 

[CLD]

Maybe you should also explain how Jesus fits into all this.

 

[CFLarsen]

CFLarsen,

Your not making any sense. Your asking me to debate a strawman. The skeptic has to show evidence that all the sitters in the experiments have told the mediums about the deceased. There is no such evidence and I'm not going to ASSUME it to satisfy the skeptic. That makes no sense.

The skeptic has to suport his or her claims with evidence not just their opinion. Is there any evidence that the mediums in the experiments know about the deceased? If you can't provide any evidence of this, then it's just skeptical conjecture.

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

What you want, is the privilege to spout any kind of nonsense, then sit back and demand that people prove you wrong.

Here is a crucial question for you:

What will it take to convince you that there is no life after death?

And here are the others:

Which example did you refer to (white hair, author, etc)?
How can wrong guesses prove life after death? Why isn't that evidence of guessing?
If you dismiss skeptics because you claim they have a vested interest, why don't you dismiss Schwartz for the very same reason?
Address the issues, answer the questions.

 

[Ethan Thane Athen]

Little 10 toes,

I'm glad your reading about zero point energy. Keep going because you will read this:

In this case, one has a contribution of E=hw/2 from every point in space, resulting in a technically infinite zero-point energy.

It's the lowest possible energy of every particle in the universe hence zero point energy is infinite.

I'm no expert, so I'm open to correction here, but whilst the universe may be infinite, the amount of matter in it is not. Therefore the number of particles is not infinite and so there is not an infinite amount of zero-point energy...or am I missing something?

 

[Parsman]

I'm no expert, so I'm open to correction here, but whilst the universe may be infinite, the amount of matter in it is not. Therefore the number of particles is not infinite and so there is not an infinite amount of zero-point energy...or am I missing something?

In fact doesn't science now think that the universe is not in fact infinite but has a begining and end and is therefore finite?

 

[SezMe]

Cuddy went to trial first and was convicted of second-degree murder and first-degree burglary. Moore's first trial ended in a hung jury on the murder charge. A short time later, in a second trial, he, too, was convicted. Both are still in prison.

Rodney, that's fantastic. Jordan did a good job. Since he was so central to solving the case, his testimony would be the keystone to the prosecution's case. So Jordan must certainly have testified in the case. Did he?

ETA: BTW, your post, which contained no indication it was taken from another source, was cribbed from here. Naughty, naughty, naughty. You do that again and I'm going to report your sorry butt.

 

[Normal Dude]

Wrong, wrong, wrong.

Address the issues, answer the questions.

I'm guessing that right about now he's going to switch to an entirely new topic or copy/paste another physics page from Wikipedia. Call it intuition on my part.

 

[juninho]

I'm guessing that right about now he's going to switch to an entirely new topic or copy/paste another physics page from Wikipedia. Call it intuition on my part.

Intuition, surely not - you're just picking up on her/his zero-point energy. Personally, I think the next topic will be around the Tay bridge disaster or perhaps the hatfield crash, he/she certainly seems to be big on derailments.

 

[Flo]

CFLarsen,

Your not making any sense. Your asking me to debate a strawman. The skeptic has to show evidence that all the sitters in the experiments have told the mediums about the deceased. There is no such evidence and I'm not going to ASSUME it to satisfy the skeptic. That makes no sense.

The skeptic has to suport his or her claims with evidence not just their opinion. Is there any evidence that the mediums in the experiments know about the deceased? If you can't provide any evidence of this, then it's just skeptical conjecture.

So you're telling us that any pharmaceutical company that produces or doctor who prescribes a drug has no obligation to prove their efficacy and safety (not to mention their credentials) to anyone doubting of their claims, so long as the skeptics cannot show evidence for all and any adverse events caused by the drug or of biased research, etc. ?

How do you decide what treatment to pursue, should you become ill ?

 

[Alice Shortcake]

Polomontana,

The recent abduction of Madeleine McCann in Portugal has brought the wannabe "pyschic detectives" out in force. Have a look at these threads on UK-Skeptics:

http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=896
http://www.skeptics.org.uk/forum/showthread.php?t=1094

In psychicsarah we have a textbook example of the fantasy-prone personality. Having spouted reams of unverified and unverifiable waffle she is now claiming that she had some sort of solid evidence - WHICH SHE REFUSES TO DEPOSIT WITH UK-SKEPTICS AND A NEUTRAL THIRD PARTY! Gosh, I wonder why? This woman lives in a world of her own, a world in which her wondrous magical powers elevate her above the common herd (certainly above the police forces who actually have to do the real work of crime-solving). It's interesting to note that at least some contributors to the Daily Mirror forum she frequents know a serial fantasist when they see one.

Oh, and don't get me started on the fact that psychicsarah KNOWS the Catholic McCann family don't want input from psychics but continues to thrust her nonsense on them anyway. Anything for a bit of free publicity, I suppose...

 

[Cuddles]

I'm no expert, so I'm open to correction here, but whilst the universe may be infinite, the amount of matter in it is not. Therefore the number of particles is not infinite and so there is not an infinite amount of zero-point energy...or am I missing something?

The universe is thought to be finite but unbounded. The amount of space is not infinite, the amount of matter is not infinite, the amount of energy is not infinite.

It's basically talking about how zero point energy shows up in different theories even though it's called something else. In quantum field theory it's called vacuum energy and in quantum perturbation theory they call it vacuum fluctuations. It also talks about the expectation value of the Hamilton.

So close, and yet so far. Zero point energy and vacuum energy are not the same thing, although vacuum energy and vacuum fluctuations are close enough that they are used interchangeably (the energy is the energy of the fluctuations). It is painfully obvious that you have no idea what you are talking about. Let's clear things up a bit.

Zero point energy is the minimum amount of energy a system can have. This is due to the quantised nature of energy in any closed system. For example, an electron around a proton cannot have zero enegy because that would mean it would stop orbiting, which is not possible. A particle in an open system, for example a free electron floating around in space, has a minimum energy of 0, it is only the constaints of a system that result in non-zero minimum energy state. Note that the proof of this is entirely mathematical, so if you don't know the maths it is impossible to have any sensible discussion about it.

The important point of zero point energy is that it is impossible to ever do anything with it. The whole point is that it is the minimum energy ever possible. It is not possible for a particle to lose it. If the universe really were infinite then technically there would be an infinite amount of energy contained within all the zero point energy, but since none of it can ever be converted from zero point energy to any other kind it is utterly irrelevant.

Vacuum energy is very different. This is due to the energy/time uncertainty principle. While energy cannot be created or destroyed, this is subject to uncertainty which means that although the universe has constant energy on a large time scale, it fluctuates on a very small time scale. Basically, particles can appear out of nowhere as long as they disappear again shortly afterwards. There are various conservation laws other than energy which mean particles can only appear in pairs as a particle and anti-particle. Since this uncertainty is true for every single point in space, space is effectively a sea of constantly appearing and disappearing particles.

However, the energy involved is very small and is evenly distributed, so the average effect of all theses particles is almost unnoticable except in very specific circumstances. One of the places it can be seen is with the Casimir effect. As mentioned, there are other constraints on which particles can be produced, one of which is limits on their wavefunction. While this is largely irrelevant in free space, by setting up a particular size and shape of space only certain particles can be allowed. This means that since only some particles can appear, less particles appear in the constrained space than outside it, resulting in a pressure difference and hence a small force. This the Casimir effect, and it has been demonstrated by measuring a force produced between two metal plates held very close together in an almost perfect vacuum.

While there was initially much speculation about free energy from vacuum energy, it is now thought to be impossible for precisely the same reasons as all other free energy. Although there is a force produced from, apparently, nothing, it takes exactly the same force to bring the plates back to where they started, just like dropping a weight gives you energy, but you have to lift the weight up again to use it again.

Incidentally, the Hamiltonian is not anything to do with quantum mechanics. It can be used in quantum mechanics in the same way that "force" and "velocity" are. It is a standard part of physics and is used in many different fields, there is nothing specially quantum about it.

Also, there is no such equation as E = mc². The actual equation is E² = p²c² + m²c⁴. The difference is very important when dealing with subjects like particle physics.

 

[Locknar]

Polomontana (et all other "belivers): Overall...it is really a basic debate; once one of these folks (Sylvia, Etta Smith, etc.) can demonstrate "psychic” ability in a controlled scientific experiment then we’ll all be believers.

Until then…you have nothing but first hand accounts (at best) of uncontrolled situations, with far to many undocumented environmental variables to account for. That, silly discussions on “zero energy”, and maybe a tuna sandwich.

Why should these folks be tested…well, they ALL claim they want to help people; seems obvious to me that proving “psychic” ability as 100% ability/science would be one of the biggest impacts on mankind since say the wheel; beats the socks off of the $700/phone call scam Sylvia current runs to “help people”.

Skeptics, on the other hand, have a wealth of proven science to refute the various scam artists claiming to have "psychic" ability; your (polo) current silly claims included.

 

[Oualawouzou]

Are you trying to invent a new JREF Forum troll catchphrase? You have a long way to go.

Yeah, but now I have an urge to conclude all my real life arguments yelling "LOL CHECKMATE!"

It does sound cool in a "awful Pokemon rip-off catchphrase" kinda way...

 

[ChristineR]

Look, polomontana, you're obviously just messing with us. It feels fun to laugh at a bunch of self-righteous people who were dumb enough to actually waste their time studying physics in college, doesn't it?

But I have one more request. Watch that video again:



Watch Kathy Kupka's face as Rhea mocks her. Watch her as she begs Sylvia Browne for help. Forget about us idiots who sit here fat and pretty and try to get through to you on a stupid message board.

That's the reality of psychic detectives. That woman sobbing in frustration and agony and loneliness. Oh, you're a clever troll, keeping us naive silly do-gooders going for pages and pages. Why look at all the smart people squirm!

F*** that. Watch Kathy Kupka squirm. That's advanced power tripping. That's advanced mind-****ing. Go on, you can do it. Hell, maybe someday you can get good enough so that you can recite these quantum mechanics non-sequitors to people like Kathy Kupka who are actually ****ed-up enough to believe it.

That's what motivates people like Randi and Bidlack to create this board and this foundation. That's why people here get all excited and want to actually explain Quantum physics to you. Boy, are they dumb! But you should see how dumb people get when someone rapes and murders their kid! Keep working on your spiel polomontana, and maybe you'll be able to see it first hand.

(To the rest of you posters--My apologies, I really don't go around using vulgarity most of the time. I'm just sick of this attention whore. He/she can go troll a cooking forum. Long live Randi. The man already has a star in heaven, and may he live longer than any hollow made-up god.)

 

[Niobe]

But I have one more request. Watch that video again:

"What do you want me to do, the legwork? *snicker*"

What a vile she-dog. I hope on her next facelift they do some extra work on the neck, pull that skin real tight.

 

[Locknar]

What a vile she-dog. I hope on her next facelift they do some extra work on the neck, pull that skin real tight.

I assume you are talking about the video?

 

[Hindmost]

Look, polomontana, you're obviously just messing with us. It feels fun to laugh at a bunch of self-righteous people who were dumb enough to actually waste their time studying physics in college, doesn't it?

But I have one more request. Watch that video again:

....

Watch Kathy Kupka's face as Rhea mocks her. Watch her as she begs Sylvia Browne for help. Forget about us idiots who sit here fat and pretty and try to get through to you on a stupid message board.

That's the reality of psychic detectives. That woman sobbing in frustration and agony and loneliness. Oh, you're a clever troll, keeping us naive silly do-gooders going for pages and pages. Why look at all the smart people squirm!

F*** that. Watch Kathy Kupka squirm. That's advanced power tripping. That's advanced mind-****ing. Go on, you can do it. Hell, maybe someday you can get good enough so that you can recite these quantum mechanics non-sequitors to people like Kathy Kupka who are actually ****ed-up enough to believe it.

That's what motivates people like Randi and Bidlack to create this board and this foundation. That's why people here get all excited and want to actually explain Quantum physics to you. Boy, are they dumb! But you should see how dumb people get when someone rapes and murders their kid! Keep working on your spiel polomontana, and maybe you'll be able to see it first hand.

(To the rest of you posters--My apologies, I really don't go around using vulgarity most of the time. I'm just sick of this attention whore. He/she can go troll a cooking forum. Long live Randi. The man already has a star in heaven, and may he live longer than any hollow made-up god.)

Next time, try not to sugar coat it Christine, tell polomontana how you really feel...

We may have bought the brooklyn bridge here with he/she/it--we can lead a horse to water, but we can't shove the horses head under water and force it to drink. I am suspecting polomontana may have some sort of financial incentive to do all this and will refuse to listen to logic or real science.

I am actually amazed at the abuse of quantum mechanics by so many people--why he/she/it would try it on a site full of science geeks is difficult to fathom.

polomontana...maybe you will have better luck with this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bovis_scale

glenn

 

[Minarvia]

Look, polomontana, you're obviously just messing with us. It feels fun to laugh at a bunch of self-righteous people who were dumb enough to actually waste their time studying physics in college, doesn't it?

But I have one more request. Watch that video again:



Watch Kathy Kupka's face as Rhea mocks her. Watch her as she begs Sylvia Browne for help. Forget about us idiots who sit here fat and pretty and try to get through to you on a stupid message board.

That's the reality of psychic detectives. That woman sobbing in frustration and agony and loneliness. Oh, you're a clever troll, keeping us naive silly do-gooders going for pages and pages. Why look at all the smart people squirm!

F*** that. Watch Kathy Kupka squirm. That's advanced power tripping. That's advanced mind-****ing. Go on, you can do it. Hell, maybe someday you can get good enough so that you can recite these quantum mechanics non-sequitors to people like Kathy Kupka who are actually ****ed-up enough to believe it.

That's what motivates people like Randi and Bidlack to create this board and this foundation. That's why people here get all excited and want to actually explain Quantum physics to you. Boy, are they dumb! But you should see how dumb people get when someone rapes and murders their kid! Keep working on your spiel polomontana, and maybe you'll be able to see it first hand.

(To the rest of you posters--My apologies, I really don't go around using vulgarity most of the time. I'm just sick of this attention whore. He/she can go troll a cooking forum. Long live Randi. The man already has a star in heaven, and may he live longer than any hollow made-up god.)

Well said, ChristineR. I still have hope, tho, that Polomontana will realize that some of us here once believed in such nonsense but came to our senses, especially when we saw how many desperate people suffer due to such scum as "psychics." And none of those people ever get any real help from "psychics."
And the line he/she keeps spouting about skeptics carrying the burden of proof is simply ludricrous. I eagerly await his/her answer about the drug companies and doctors' treatments.

 

[Flo]

And the line he/she keeps spouting about skeptics carrying the burden of proof is simply ludricrous. I eagerly await his/her answer about the drug companies and doctors' treatments.

I don't have much hope for any coherent answer. Either he/she/it will just ignore my question, or he/she/it will dodge with something on the line of "it's irrelevant to the question", whatever he/she/it decides the question is at any given time.

Some of his/her/its answers so far show that he/she/it is perfectly capable to make the difference between complete baloney and reality whenever his/her/its personal interests are at stake, including his interests in keeping issues muddy so as not to show his miserable grasp of anything scientific, and maybe either his vested interests or his obvious trolling.