Border Security and Illegal Immigration

[Bobert]

I it has also been said that the Brits all have crooked teeth, the Aussies toilets work in reverse, and Canadian men have incredibly long........legs.

TAM

I thought that Aussie toilets flushed in reverse because of the northern/southern hemisphere thingy?
I have seen brits with good teeth but generally do not check out the legs of men so cannot comment on the Canadian thing.

 

[gtc]

I was told that Americans eat with the fork in the right hand because out on the Prairies they didn't have none of them fancy eating knives like the folks back East. The father would take his hunting knife, cut up his meal and pass the knife on around the table. Whereafter everyone would take their eating forks and eat their meals. As an Australian, I have no idea if that story is true or not, but it would be frowned upon in polite society to eat with only a fork.

Also Australians seem to increasingly use the word chips for both hot french fries and bags of cold sliced and fried potatos. French fries tend to be called Hot Chips here. Australians also tend to use the word singlet instead of vest when they are talking about the sleeveless undershirt (known to many as a "wife-beater").

I believe the Americans haven't secured their border with Mexico because a really effective fence would be hideously expensive. Terrorists could enter the US illegally via Canada or Mexico but would they want to run the risk? They risk capture on entry to Canada or Mexico and while crossing into the US and could still be detected as illegal aliens in the US.

 

[gumboot]

Also Australians seem to increasingly use the word chips for both hot french fries and bags of cold sliced and fried potatos. French fries tend to be called Hot Chips here. Australians also tend to use the word singlet instead of vest when they are talking about the sleeveless undershirt (known to many as a "wife-beater").

Here in NZ "french fries" (usually just "fries") are the long thin ones you get from somewhere like McDonalds, while "chips" (chups...) are the more square thick ones... as well as all variations of "crisps".

We also use "singlet", not vest.

This has been the case for at least my entire lifespan (25yrs)

-Gumboot

 

[Yurebiz]

Brilliant, thanks for the answers and derailing.

 

[Disbelief]

Brilliant, thanks for the answers and derailing.

I gave you an answer on page 2.

 

[T.A.M.]

heh, small derails are what add the pepper to the broth my friend.

TAM

 

[tsig]

I sometimes think that the CTers who come here think this is the only section of the forum. If they went to other sections they may find that we are not the demons we are sometimes made out to be..

Speak for yourself. I was very proud of my Demon status.

 

[maccy]

Can we overall agree that illegal immigration hurts the country at least? You don't seem to realise that waves of 3rd country population cannot and will not help the economy of a sovereign 1st world country...

On what basis do you make this assertion? Do you have any reliable statistics or economic assessments of the impact of migration on the US economy?

 

[CptColumbo]

Speak for yourself. I was very proud of my Demon status.

Gone, Gone the form of man.

Well, that just further shows how diverse a group we are. Man, woman, Spawn of Hell, or Peruvian, all are welcome at the JREF. Except the Welsh.

 

[Brainster]

I was personally unaware of it. How common is it?

Fairly common among the anti-immigrant right. I come across it quite regularly on the political talk shows. It's mostly nativist kooks who embrace it, but Lou Dobbs (CNN financial guy) plugs the anti-NAU movement regularly. There have been several threads about this particular brand of CT but it never seems to become a hot topic. Interestingly, much like with the 9-11 Denial movement, there is an online document that reveals the plan. Moloch always makes us work so hard by publishing his plans online! Of course it's an agreement which talks about strengthening the bonds between the US, Canada and Mexico. Well, you know how that gets interpreted in the feverish fantasies of the conspiracy theorists.

 

[gumboot]

Fairly common among the anti-immigrant right. I come across it quite regularly on the political talk shows. It's mostly nativist kooks who embrace it, but Lou Dobbs (CNN financial guy) plugs the anti-NAU movement regularly. There have been several threads about this particular brand of CT but it never seems to become a hot topic. Interestingly, much like with the 9-11 Denial movement, there is an online document that reveals the plan. Moloch always makes us work so hard by publishing his plans online! Of course it's an agreement which talks about strengthening the bonds between the US, Canada and Mexico. Well, you know how that gets interpreted in the feverish fantasies of the conspiracy theorists.

It's odd that they're rabidly anti any sort of wars, yet simultaneously consider any sort of collective effort for better international relations (The UN, the EU, this document in question) as an equally sinful activity.

One must wonder how the world would actually look, were they to get their way.

But 'tis better not to contemplate such horrors.

-Gumboot

 

[Yurebiz]

Illegal immigration =/= Legal Immigration
I'm a legal immigrant myself. Although I do believe this theory up to the ninety-nine percent probability, I obviously have nothing against immigrants themselves... nor there is any correlation between Hispanic hate groups and this theory. Most if not all of the CTists who believe this are fully aware that the illegals from mexico come here because they have to earn money to survive. If there's a way to gain three times what they would earn at their own country doing the same thing (i.e. construction work) they'll come ASAP. Immigration is a natural economic cycle.

What is in debate is ILLEGAL immigration. People coming and going by their own reason, without paying taxes properly, not contributing back to the economy, lowering the income levels to six bucks an hour for regular civilians who would instead receive a proper salary from the same work... there's many ways illegal immigration can hurt the economy of a country... and guess who it favors, the companies who hires them. Inversely, the middle class has to put up with it.

The conspiracy is believed to be true because fences are not being built, and we see more and more illegals here everyday. Again, they're not the problem really. They are here because our government allowed them to pass through. And nothing is being done to stop it. At least not in the near future.

On a side note... our border being open does put in question how much of a threat serious the all-time dangerous muslim radicals really are. We have had this border open, with illegals coming through, since the 90's as far as reports go. It's far easier for one to obtain a passport to travel to Mexico, then cross the border illegally, and from there, you can take busses anywhere you want. Trust me, I know that very well. If a terrorist wants to come to the US, he WILL come to the US. And we would never know. This ain't the main topic though.

Go ahead and tell me whether you think the government would or would not be able to secure the border at all...

 

[Disbelief]

Illegal immigration =/= Legal Immigration
I'm a legal immigrant myself. Although I do believe this theory up to the ninety-nine percent probability, I obviously have nothing against immigrants themselves... nor there is any correlation between Hispanic hate groups and this theory. Most if not all of the CTists who believe this are fully aware that the illegals from mexico come here because they have to earn money to survive. If there's a way to gain three times what they would earn at their own country doing the same thing (i.e. construction work) they'll come ASAP. Immigration is a natural economic cycle.

What is in debate is ILLEGAL immigration. People coming and going by their own reason, without paying taxes properly, not contributing back to the economy, lowering the income levels to six bucks an hour for regular civilians who would instead receive a proper salary from the same work... there's many ways illegal immigration can hurt the economy of a country... and guess who it favors, the companies who hires them. Inversely, the middle class has to put up with it.

So, the 12 million illegals spend no money in the US? If you assume they spend only $3,000 per year (not unreasonable), that equates $36 billion dollars. No, they contribute nothing.

The conspiracy is believed to be true because fences are not being built, and we see more and more illegals here everyday. Again, they're not the problem really. They are here because our government allowed them to pass through. And nothing is being done to stop it. At least not in the near future.

Do you think a fence is going to stop anyone? You need thousands of people to be able to patrol it, as a fence would be a minor inconvenience. Do you really think the "coyotes" are going to let the thousands they make off of illegals disappear because of a fence?

On a side note... our border being open does put in question how much of a threat serious the all-time dangerous muslim radicals really are. We have had this border open, with illegals coming through, since the 90's as far as reports go. It's far easier for one to obtain a passport to travel to Mexico, then cross the border illegally, and from there, you can take busses anywhere you want. Trust me, I know that very well. If a terrorist wants to come to the US, he WILL come to the US. And we would never know. This ain't the main topic though.

Go ahead and tell me whether you think the government would or would not be able to secure the border at all...

So, have you travelled to Mexico and illegally crossed? Do you know anyone who has? Do you think it is a piece of cake?It is not a simple stroll down the street or a walk in the park.

Do you think the US government hasn't worked with MX to watch for terrorists? Do you think they work in a vacuum?

 

[Donal]

as long as illegals vote overwhelmingly democrat..

Que?

 

[Daald]

Well, you build a fence and they build a tunnel.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012601963.html

You will not win this battle. You can relocate the great wall of China over here and you will still get illegal immigrants. As long as there is incentives for them to come over they will do so even at great risk to their lives. You can't stop that with a stupid fence.

You might as well put up signs that say please don't cross the border and it will be just as effective and less expensive.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

What is in debate is ILLEGAL immigration. People coming and going by their own reason, without paying taxes properly, not contributing back to the economy, lowering the income levels to six bucks an hour for regular civilians who would instead receive a proper salary from the same work... there's many ways illegal immigration can hurt the economy of a country... and guess who it favors, the companies who hires them. Inversely, the middle class has to put up with it.

so instead of putting up a fence lets make it easier for illegal immigrants to become legal and "contribute tot he economy" as you put it

Well, you build a fence and they build a tunnel.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/01/26/AR2006012601963.html

You will not win this battle. You can relocate the great wall of China over here and you will still get illegal immigrants. As long as there is incentives for them to come over they will do so even at great risk to their lives. You can't stop that with a stupid fence.

You might as well put up signs that say please don't cross the border and it will be just as effective and less expensive.

they did somethign liek this recently on penn and tellers bullsh!t, they hired 6 guys to build a fence, then told them to try to get through it (2 over, 2 under, 2 through)

they all made it in liek 10 minutes

 

[Yurebiz]

People, it's not all about a stupid fence. I think a fence is needed. Yes, of course it would not stop them, there's dozens of ways to get through. But the mere fact that no fence was ever build for many years now, it's supporting evidence that congress doesn't care.

A fence is a BASIC protection against trespassing. BASIC, the first thing that is built to stop people for going through. There's thousands of other ways that aren't even that costy that can further secure it. Put cammeras on key points where there's more movement, work with the border patrol to keep an eye on areas where tunnels may have been digged up, bury those down, build fences that extend ~10 feet under the earth, establish some real patrolling with helicopters and infrared cameras, double fencing, triple fencing, whatever!

If illegal immigration was really taken seriously we'd seen much more than Bush signing an act that doesn't do anything other than giving out more money for the border patrol to do whatever the hell it wants with it. We'd see some of the above being done.

And hell no, I came by plane. And I'm legal. But I know many folks who came through Rio Grande.

 

[defaultdotxbe]

People, it's not all about a stupid fence. I think a fence is needed. Yes, of course it would not stop them, there's dozens of ways to get through. But the mere fact that no fence was ever build for many years now, it's supporting evidence that congress doesn't care.

or they dont want to waste money on soemthign they know wont work

also, there are already fences in some areas, and no, they dont work

Put cammeras on key points where there's more movement, work with the border patrol to keep an eye on areas where tunnels may have been digged up, bury those down, build fences that extend ~10 feet under the earth, establish some real patrolling with helicopters and infrared cameras, double fencing, triple fencing, whatever!

how effective will this be? and how much will it cost? you talk of immigrants hurting the economy, do you think there might be a better way to spend all this money you are proposing?

 

[Disbelief]

Yurebiz, you never answered about the illegals not adding to the economy. Why? Because it is an outright lie that they add nothing to the economy.

 

[Daald]

The fence will only stop the people that currently trespass by accident. You want to stop the ones that are determined to get across the fence.

To fix that problem you have to make them stop wanting to cross. That is the problem.

But if you want them to get the message that you don't want them here, make a commercial that goes along the lines of "Uncle Sam DOES NOT want you!!!!"

I'm sure they will get the point better that way. The fence could be perceived as a contest or heck a job audition