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Kent Hovind gets 10 years

jesus_freak said:
He probably has no money
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Hovind has plenty of money. He had his wife perform illegal acts to hide said money from tax regulators. That's why she's next up for sentencing. Yet another sign of this man's grotesque ego.

because all he does can be had for free
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Research is expensive. Even if there's no physical laboratory or library, the fees one has to pay to subscription databases are enough to bankrupt most individuals so you will find that only corporations subscribe. What you are actually saying is that Hovind did no basic research into his claims and was selling "wisdom" that could be acquired on the street.

so yes he is very dependent on those that he helps!
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You might do yourself a favor by shutting yourself up someplace quiet so that you might identify for yourself how Hovind's actions are in any way different than those of a confidence trickster. Frankly, con artists are also very dependent on those they "help" and all they have to sell is, like Hovind, baseless reinforcement of belief. In this case, the need was to believe that the bible or christianity is fact-based.

he could count me in!
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If you stop to examine how he helped you, you will draw different conclusions. How did Hovind really help you? You believe that he did so by convincing you that the bible should be taken literally. That is a dangerous belief because it sets you up for disillusionment in your faith when you put it to the test. The bible is not without flaw (far from it). You should not be regarding it as a history book but as a rough guide on how to live your life, not what god had for breakfast. Like mostly all religious books, there a kernel that has merit and wisdom.

I'm sorry, jf, but Hovind is nothing more than a con artist. He preyed on the ever-present need by the faithful that the veracity of their faith could in some sense be factually proven. If that were possible, then what you believe in would no longer be "faith", to paraphrase an old truism. Read up and understand Luke 17:21 and stop putting yourself at the feet of these users.
 
jesus_freak said:
To imply that he is some sort of scam artist or only in this for money is a complete lie. Everything that he sells is not copy writed on purpose so it can legally be copied for free and distributed to others. As far as I know even his seminars are free and entrance into his museum and theme park are only suggested donations meaning you can pay what ever you want or even nothing!
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Yet, he won't send you a copy of his presentations without a $140 charge.

He is a scam artist. His theme park has an admission charge, which he calls a "suggested donation". If you don't match the minimum suggested donation, you are turned away. He feels that because it's a 'donation', it's not 'income' and this is only part of the tax evasion litany. The Power Tour tried the same thing in the '90s, and was similarly convicted.

However, this is only the tip of the iceberg. I've pointed out egreigious flaws in his powerpoint stack when debating him (1), he agrees that they're errors, and goes to the next tour without making corrections. ie: he knowingly lies from one congregation to the next, gathering donations under false pretenses. However, this is not the basis of his criminal conviction (but he should be charged with fraud, if not grand larceny, for this particular scam).





jesus_freak said:
Actually he did if you check out Matthew Capter 22 I believe you will see !
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I'm assuming you mean Matthew 22:27? You're aware that hovind disagrees, right? As do many Christians (Pentecostals come to mind as a group that almost universally rejects this interpretation - they quite openly preach tax evasion as Christ's own instructions). Specifically: "Fishing to pay taxes has not become a sacrament or ordinance of the Church. It was an instruction to Peter individually on one occasion, not a command to all Christians for all time."


And re: Matthew 22:15-22... This Gospel probably speaks more to the fact that Jesus was caught between a rock and a hard place and had a clever out. On the one hand, the Romans required the use of their own currency within their domain, but the Temple could not accept coins with 'graven images' for tithe (Roman coins sported an image of Caesar on the obverse). This led to his confrontation with the money changers, cited in other Gospels. However, this put him in a bind: how to endorse tithing without advocating rejecting the currency of the realm (advocating not using Roman coins was sedition, and the Romans were trying to catch him in the act of making seditious statements). So, his solution was a vague expression that appears to have got him off the hook from both parties.

Hovind believes that if money is not donated to the poor wilfully, that it is theft, and he cites a commandment about that as taking priority over 'questionable socialist biblical misinterpretations'. Recall that he doesn't use the Good News version, but sticks to the KJV, which words these passages a little differently.





jesus_freak said:
This actually is kind of funny! I really doubt that he serves the full 10 years though. I don't know if he will be up for parole or anything but I know that some murderers and rapist don't serve 10 years so I would guess in about 5 years he is out spreading God's word and has some great stories of conversions in prison and will only come out with a stronger case against evolution with all of his free time to study and Pray.
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The basis of parole, though, is a sincere demonstration of reform. If Hovind changes his attitude in prison about whether taxes are legal, then he may see early release. However, if he remains as recalcitrant as he has been up to this point, he could likely serve the whole sentence.




Another poster asked what Hovind was saying about the authority of the court, and there is another angle he has produced: he claims that because one of the courts he was sitting in had a flag with a gold tassel, that it was secretly a military court, and since he was a civilian, the court had no authority.

This is part of the reason for the harsh sentence: he appears to be a highly dishonest man, preying on the innocent and good-intentioned, who will put forward any lie to avoid personal accountability.



(1): specifically, his 'opening salvo' includes an example of a tree that was dated 5kyo on one end and 25kyo on the other - a clear-cut example of how flawed carbon dating can be. I asked for, and obtained, the reference, and the paper does not actually say this (It says "a sample" is dated 5kyo at one end and 25kyo at the other. The sample being a core sample that intercepted a tree near the surface, but the tree lay horizontally, and only goes a few inches deep). I corresponded with one of the authors, and this was confirmed. At first, I thought it was an honest misunderstanding, but after bringing this to his attention and reviewing his progress, it is clear that he's aware it is a falsehood, but it just sounds too good to drop from the presentation so he retains it in his debates.
 
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Yet, he won't send you a copy of his presentations without a $140 charge.
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but after you get them you can copy them and return them for a full refund!
 
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Jesus answered and said unto them, Verily I say unto you, If ye have faith, and doubt not, ye shall not only do this which is done to the fig tree, but also if ye shall say unto this mountain, Be thou removed, and be thou cast into the sea; it shall be done.
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is he lying...umm...no
 
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That really is a cop-out answer, but typical.
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how so? everytime your kids ask you for something do you do it? you may know something they don't! My God doesn't just grant wishes sorry.
 
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Hovind has plenty of money. He had his wife perform illegal acts to hide said money from tax regulators. That's why she's next up for sentencing. Yet another sign of this man's grotesque ego.
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How do you know he has plenty of money? do you balance his check book? have you been to his house?...I have heard from people who have gone to his house that he does not live like someone with a lot of money...he has no health care, and no savings. Seems to be a pretty factual statement that you made with no way of proving it...kinda like evolution? Again I love to debate these topics with you all but I just ask that you stick to facts and the truth...thank you.
 
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That is a dangerous belief because it sets you up for disillusionment in your faith when you put it to the test. The bible is not without flaw (far from it).
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PLEASE give me an example! 1 example PLEASE!
 
jesus_freak said:
how so? everytime your kids ask you for something do you do it? you may know something they don't! My God doesn't just grant wishes sorry.
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You never answered the question which was (paraphrasing now) "how many prayers has your god answered compared to how many he has not.

Which also ties in with "If you believe god will answer all your prays"
 
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You never answered the question which was (paraphrasing now) "how many prayers has your god answered compared to how many he has not.

Which also ties in with "If you believe god will answer all your prays"
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I can say in confidence that he may not answer them how I want, or when I want but he does answer 100% of them. It says he will answer your prayers, no where does it say he is here to please or serve me, sometimes an answer can be no!
 
If you want an easy one to pick on: take hydrological sorting. Hovind says the Grand Canyon has layers because of hydrological sorting by receding floodwaters during the time on Noah. What Hovind cleverly doesn't address is why are there less dense layers above and below more dense layers in the Grand Canyon? Even if receding floodwaters could sort (and to our knowledge they cannot) hydrological sorting does not put layers of the same material both above and below layers of a substantially higher/lower density. For example we should not see limestone on both sides of sandstone. Yet in the Grand Canyon, we do.
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this is from creationanswers.net
When sediment is deposited in STILL water, one horizontal layer and then the next, it can give this kind of pattern in the rock strata, with the bottom layer being the first to form and the top being the last. This does apply in some locations. But there seems to be a problem in the standard approach of evolutionary geology that this model of sedimentation has been over applied to too many locations. In Flood geology, catastrophic processes would produce circumstances in which powerful water currents would exist. Indeed even the daily tides can produce significant currents along the margins of the continents, not to mention many flood-related processes associated with volcanism, earthquakes, impacts from space, etc. The Berthault experiments show that when there is one layer of one type of particles separated from a different layer under it, that does not necessarily mean they formed one after the other in time. They can actually all form at the same time, in a horizontal progression rather than a vertical progression.
 
Even if receding floodwaters could sort (and to our knowledge they cannot)
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Is this kinda like even if rocks could give birth to apes (and to our knowledge they cannot) that doesn't mean we came from them?
 
As far as Hovind goes, the only thing I can say is that at least one of MY prayers have been answered: another slimy charlatan has been removed from public view. Hasta la vista, @$$#013.
 
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