Cont: Greta Thunberg - brave campaigner or deeply disturbed - part 3

[Hercules56]

Nor should they. The aid can be transshipped from the port to the Gaza checkpoints just fine.


I agree. These people don't want Israel to be in control of Gaza's borders.

And you're probably the only person in the world who believes that Hamas would not get supplies from the sea, if Israel didn't control their coastline. So it's also about security.

Israel could very easily check all boats before they go to Gaza.

But they dont want to cause its a Fascist govt. They want ONLY the bear minimum amount of food to get into Gaza, and that means controlling everything that goes in and out. They are using hunger as a weapon, starvation as a tool.

Its not working but they want to maintain this evil scheme anyway.

 

[theprestige]

Israel could very easily check all boats before they go to Gaza.

Really? Israel could very easily intercept, board, and inspect at sea, fifty boats?

I don't doubt that Israel could do it, but that's a lot of extra effort and resources, to provide an unearned courtesy to undeserving people.

Israel has already established places and processes for sincere aid shipments to be stopped and inspected. If the intent of the flotilla was to have their shipment inspected by Israel before being allowed into Gaza, they wouldn't be trying to run the blockade.

 

[Hercules56]

Really? Israel could very easily intercept, board, and inspect at sea, fifty boats?

I don't doubt that Israel could do it, but that's a lot of extra effort and resources, to provide an unearned courtesy to undeserving people.

Israel has already established places and processes for sincere aid shipments to be stopped and inspected. If the intent of the flotilla was to have their shipment inspected by Israel before being allowed into Gaza, they wouldn't be trying to run the blockade.

Israel has established zero ports in Gaza for food aid to be delivered to. Even though they completely control the Gaza strip.

This is obviously not about security.

 

[theprestige]

Israel has established zero ports in Gaza for food aid to be delivered to. Even though they completely control the Gaza strip.

This is obviously not about security.

Israel already has ports where food aid can be inspected and delivered. Why on earth would you imagine that the DDBC is entitled to a bespoke port of entry into Gaza?

 

[Hercules56]

Israel already has ports where food aid can be inspected and delivered. Why on earth would you imagine that the DDBC is entitled to a bespoke port of entry into Gaza?

Pretty stupid and inefficient to have to bring food aid meant for Gaza, to the port in Haifa. 150 miles away.

Israel should set up a port in Gaza for international supply donations.

 

[theprestige]

Pretty stupid and inefficient to have to bring food aid meant for Gaza, to the port in Haifa. 150 miles away.

Israel should set up a port in Gaza for international supply donations.

The only people wanting a free port in Gaza are blockade runners. All the reputable aid organizations are going through Haifa.

 

[arthwollipot]

You're begging the question that they're completely unarmed and crewed entirely by noncombatants. That there's no contraband or intelligence material or persons of interest aboard. The whole point of running a blockade is to avoid having to actually answer those questions. That's why it's a warlike and threatening act.

Wait wait wait. You think that Greta might be running guns now? What?

 

[Hercules56]

The only people wanting a free port in Gaza are blockade runners. All the reputable aid organizations are going through Haifa.

Too bad Israel destroyed the Gaza port.

 

[theprestige]

Wait wait wait. You think that Greta might be running guns now? What?

I think G-Thunder has fallen in with some idiots who may have fallen in with some bad people, and that the IDF is justified in assuming the worst of any blockade runners hoping to exploit her naive endorsement.

I don't think the deeply disturbed brave campaigner has given much thought at all to the narrative her current handlers are feeding her.

Of course, if Our Hero has personally inspected the entire shipment, and is prepared to vouch for it to the Israeli government, then I will reserve judgment.

 

[arthwollipot]

Wow, okay. That's... a lot. You're basically doubting that Greta has any agency in her own activities at all.

Let me tell you, if you've been following her on social media for the last five years like I have, you would know that this is wild fantasy.

 

[acbytesla]

Wow, okay. That's... a lot. You're basically doubting that Greta has any agency in her own activities at all.

Let me tell you, if you've been following her on social media for the last five years like I have, you would know that this is wild fantasy.

Yeah. She is hardly the disturbed crazy person the right paints her to be. I don't agree with everything she does or says. But she is committed to her causes.

 

[The Great Zaganza]

The blockade of Gaza is a clear violation of International Law and an act of Genocide.

That means that running the blockade is not only justified, but actually required under international law and common human decency.

 

[theprestige]

Wow, okay. That's... a lot. You're basically doubting that Greta has any agency in her own activities at all.

No. I'm basically doubting that she is using her agency in a wise and well-informed way. Exercising your agency to engage in willful ignorance, or to be lazy in your dealings, does not remove your agency. It just means you're making bad choices with the autonomy you enjoy.

Let me tell you, if you've been following her on social media for the last five years like I have, you would know that this is wild fantasy.

Do any of these tweets show her using her agency to inspect this "aid shipment" she's endorsed, and to vouch for it to the Israeli government? No, of course not. She has agency, she's just using it for other things than this.

ETA: You do know that if she's got agency over the nonsense she gets involved in, that's even worse, right?

 

[theprestige]

Yeah. She is hardly the disturbed crazy person the right paints her to be. I don't agree with everything she does or says. But she is committed to her causes.

Nobody doubts her commitment. Some of us doubt her efficacy and wisdom.

 

[arthwollipot]

Do any of these tweets show her using her agency to inspect this "aid shipment" she's endorsed, and to vouch for it to the Israeli government?

I don't know, I don't use Twitter any more. I follow her on Instagram.

ETA: You do know that if she's got agency over the nonsense she gets involved in, that's even worse, right?

Begging the question.

 

[theprestige]

I don't know, I don't use Twitter any more. I follow her on Instagram.

Potato, potato. I'll take that as a no, she hasn't given you any indication that she's actually taking responsibility for the shipment she's endorsing.

Begging the question.

My bad. Which question am I begging? I'll try to support it if I can.

 

[arthwollipot]

Potato, potato. I'll take that as a no, she hasn't given you any indication that she's actually taking responsibility for the shipment she's endorsing.

I'll take it as you assuming that she's running guns and dismiss it for the ridiculous notion that it is.

My bad. Which question am I begging? I'll try to support it if I can.

That what she is involved in is a priori nonsense and therefore her having agency over it is worse.

 

[theprestige]

I'll take it as you assuming that she's running guns and dismiss it for the ridiculous notion that it is.

I'm assuming she has no idea what's being carried in the flotilla she endorsed, and that the IDF has every reason to assume the worst of the boats she's championed.

That what she is involved in is a priori nonsense and therefore her having agency over it is worse.

That's fair. Nonsense is the wrong word. I should have said open act of aggression against a belligerent power exercising its right to cut off its enemy in order to bring about their defeat.

Obviously if she's been tricked or groomed into this position, it's not as bad as if she chose it of her own free will.

 

[arthwollipot]

I'm assuming she has no idea what's being carried in the flotilla she endorsed, and that the IDF has every reason to assume the worst of the boats she's championed.

Assuming without evidence, of course. Assuming in bad faith, I hasten to add.

That's fair. Nonsense is the wrong word. I should have said open act of aggression against a belligerent power exercising its right to cut off its enemy in order to bring about their defeat.

I strongly disagree with the way you have framed this illegal blockade intended to inflict starvation and famine on civilians by cutting off their access to food, water, and medicine.

Obviously if she's been tricked or groomed into this position, it's not as bad as if she chose it of her own free will.

Once again begging the question that what she is doing is bad or illegal. You do know she's an adult now, right?

 

[Skeptical Greg]

Bad or illegal?

Stupid, comes to mind.